An Interview with Myriades 1

Ken Wilber

Ken Wilber is the most widely translated academic writer in America, with 25 books translated into some 30 foreign languages, and is the first philosopher-psychologist to have his Collected Works published while still alive. Wilber is an internationally acknowledged leader and the preeminent scholar of the Integral stage of human development, which continues to gather momentum around the world. His many books, all of which are still in print, can be found at Amazon.com. Some of his more popular books include Integral Spirituality; No Boundary; Grace and Grit; Sex, Ecology, Spirituality; and the "everything" books: A Brief History of Everything (one of his largest selling books) and A Theory of Everything (probably the shortest introduction to his work).  Ken Wilber is the founder of Integral Institute, Inc., the co-founder of Integral Life, Inc.

 

Gaspar Segafredo, Editor-in-Chief of Myriades 1, an Argentinean culture magazine with an integral approach, and Ken engage part 3 of their dialogue with vigorous inquiry. Gaspar begins by asking if democracy, the United Nations, and human rights fundamentally stem from "pluralism." The answer, as the evidence shows, is yes and no. Modernity, starting with the Western Enlightenment, attempted to free itself from dogmatic mythic religion, and declare that all humans are equal. In fact, enacting that impulse has been more of a progressive movement—not a historical moment in time—that continues to this day. First it was that all (white) men are equal, then including all African (black) men, then including women, then including children.

In a very real way, postmodernity finished the Enlightenment project that modernity started, wherein all human beings—regardless of race, religion, creed, sexuality, etc.—should be accorded the same fundamental human rights. But postmodernity and the pluralism it encourages can, and has, often gone too far in its impulse to equalize. It has even gone so far as to deconstruct nearly all meaning whatsoever, which reveals the narcissistic and nihilistic core at the center of a glorious impulse taken to its pathological limits. This is where an Integral Approach comes into play.

"Postmodernity just came in and completed the project of Modernity—so it was an attempt to include all of humanity; the bad news is that 70% of the world population is pre-modern, and isn’t even ready for the truths of the Enlightenment…."

An Integral Approach takes the many gifts and insights of pluralism, and then finds the patterns that connect. All views have their right to exist, but that doesn't mean that all views are equal. Here, Gaspar and Ken explore developmental studies, and how—universally, research shows—people move from egocentric (I, me), to ethnocentric (you, us), to worldcentric (all of us), to (all sentient beings) Kosmocentric. This is not merely an academic consideration. This is a reflection of the world we all live in, where 70% of the world population is at ethnocentric or lower (to put it bluntly, Nazis or lower).

Here, Gaspar and Ken discuss developmental stages in terms of the ability to take perspectives. For example, egocentric can take a 1st-person perspective, ethnocentric can take a 2nd- person perspective, worldcentric-modern can take a 3rd-person perspective, worldcentric-postmodern can take a 4th-person perspective, and integral-Kosmocentric can take a 5th-person perspective (and beyond). All of those stages of development, and stages of perspective-taking, are allowed, included, and embraced in an Integral Approach. The question is, how can we help people grow into more mature, complex perspectives? This is one of the many fascinating topics that Gaspar and Ken explore in this introductory, yet leading-edge, dialogue....