Inquiry

How do you choose a spiritual path?

Have you chosen one? What path did you choose? What factors motivated you to choose that tradition over others? How has choosing one tradition helped you or been difficult for you? What advice can you offer others in making this decision?

Are you having difficulty or reluctance in choosing a path? What do you think is keeping you from choosing? What appeals to you about the various traditions? What appeals to you about no tradition?

 

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Choosing the right path

Choosing the right path is something that would bring you better way of living, by living with no one getting hurt from your decisions, resolutions and presumptions.

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Life of Pi

I was taken by the small boy in the book The Life of Pi who proclaimed he was a Buddhist, a Christian and a Muslim and all the adults around him said he had to choose one or the other.  I can relate.  I was "given" the spiritual path (which incidentally almost entirely lacked spirituality) of the Dutch Calvinist Reformed Church -- total depravity, limited atonement, predestination, etc. and a lot of obscure intellectuality that covered up for what happens to most spiritual traditions when they become institutionalized:  exercises in control, then power, and the pursuit of wealth.

I have since engaged a spiritual path that has left much of that behind, retained the living in relationship examples of the Christ, the compassion of the Buddha, the everything out of nothing of the Tao, the insights of Krishnamurti leading to total freedom and the coming back to being in communion with the earth and all living things of native American spiritual traditions.

I try to keep things simple, to wit:  the meaning of life is to fill time and space.  After all, that is what life does:  fills time and space.  It begs the question, how does one fill time and space: clutching, grasping, attaching, pursuing, demanding or encouraging, being of service, loving, listening, sharing, ....we get to choose.

Stephen Kladder

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On Christian Love and Buddhist Emptiness...

While the popular New Age philosophy of “cosmic balance” tells us that all pairs of opposites (e.g. masculine/feminine, light/dark) are really one and the same, Integral philosophy (as pioneered by Ken Wilber) has a more discerning position: things which seem to be one and the same are really opposites. Just a few examples of this from Ken’s own body of work include: states & stages of consciousness, pre-rational & trans-rational structures of consciousness, qualitative depth (better) & population span (bigger) and the “mutual interpenetration of all things” in quantum physics & Eastern mysticism – all of these opposing categories were once seen to be one and the same, but in the clear light of integral theory they are now seen to be describing very different dimensions of reality.

Likewise, it is widely accepted in the New Age movement that “All religions are the same”, different paths up the same mountain – and this is said to be especially true of Christianity and Buddhism. In other words, according to the popular New Age philosophy, while these two faith traditions seem to be different in their exoteric surface features they are really one and the same in their esoteric deep features - i.e. their external rites and rituals may look different, but their interior essence (usually a version of Non-dual awareness) is very much the same…

Here, then, I want to challenge the alleged spiritual/esoteric identity of Christianity and Buddhism and suggest that the truth is exactly the opposite – the exoteric surface features of Buddhism and Christianity are much the same - they both have priests, temples, scriptures, ceremonies, alters, sacred postures, mantras, secret brotherhoods - it is precisely in their esoteric depths that they are divided.

To begin, all religions believe that we humans are caught up in a net of sin (suffering, delusion, ignorance) – and that there is some way out, a way of liberation, salvation or Enlightenment. But as to what constitutes the way out it seems to me that no two institutions in the world contradict each other so flatly as Christianity and Buddhism…

At G.K. Chesterton pointed out: simply consider the startling differences in the style of their religious art, in which the soul of these religions is made visible to us. No two inner religious ideals could be more opposite than a painting of a medieval Christian saint with eyes wide open, looking with fierce intensity outwards, staring at the world in astonishment and anguished intimacy – and a painting of a Buddhist sage with eyes shut in blissful peace, and with a peculiar inward intent oblivious to the happenings of the world around him. And the contention here is that there must be some real divergence at the innermost core of these traditions which produces such opposing symbols. 

From another angle, It is a commonplace stance in many spiritual circles to say that the esoteric core of all the great traditions ascribes to the same fundamental notion of Absolute Truth in terms of a direct apprehension of Non-dual Awareness – i.e. the simple recognition that “There is only Spirit” as ones always already Free Self, a Self that existed from before the Big Bang and is fully present at each and every point of the temporal process. From the perspective of radical Non-dual Truth - which is said to be the ultimate realization of all the world’s great religion -  the whole universe arises inside ones very own Big Mind, and it is just here that Buddhism and Christianity diverge in their central teachings.

To put it simply, Buddhism teaches compassion for all sentient beings because they are ultimately manifestations of one’s own true Self, while Christianity is grounded in love – and real love requires separation between persons. The Eastern sage says we are all Spirit (as un-qualifiable Emptiness) showing up with many different faces or aspects, that there are no real walls of individuality between different persons in the world. However, the Christian impulse is to love precisely that which is Other, to love the other person in the absolute singularity of who they are, to love that which is not-I. A Christian does not love someone because they arise inside of his/her own Self but because they are different, strange, foreign, because that person shows up in my world from some unheard of dimension, just as a man loves a woman because she is entirely different from himself. To put it bluntly, in the Non-dual traditions of the East we are not to Love our neighbors, rather we are to Be our neighbors, but as G. K. Chesterton put it, “If souls are separate love is possible. If souls are united love is obviously impossible.” So it’s not so much that Love has no opposite (as the original punk monk himself Stuart Davis kindly suggests), but rather that opposites make Love possible!

Or again, where teachers of Eastern Enlightenment (e.g. Andrew Cohen) consider the insidious ego-personality to be fallen, like a drop of water that must return home to a the vast ocean of Emptiness, it is the instinct of Christianity to be glad that God has broken the universe into little fragments, because they are living, breathing fragments. So in contrast to the teachers of Impersonal Enlightenment that recognize no ultimate boundaries in reality, Christianity has always insisted that the boundary between God and the world (and the collective passions of human history) is not something to be regarded as unreal, illusory, or deficient. That is the Judeo-Christian tradition has always seen Creation as “good, very good” (Genesis), not merely a veil of ignorance or illusion, and as such God wants us all to become real persons with a capacity to love one another, rather than the position of the Eastern traditions which teach one large ego to love him/her self and have regard other people in so far as they arise inside ones own awareness...

So Christian love desires real personality, and personality requires division. That is, love requires that two people are different, set apart from each other, so that they are inseparable only in so far as they embody very real differences. In other words, there must be a creative tension between two people that are different (i.e. a masculine and a feminine personality type) for the loving union between them to be real…

So love divides where many Eastern traditions breed indifference and uniformity. As the 1st century Nazarene said, “I have come not with peace but a sword”, a sword which comes to separate, to set free  - and even to set brother against brother... The point being that no other religion makes God rejoice in the separation of the universe into living souls, but according to Christianity it is this qualitative difference between divinity and humanity, and the real distinction between persons in relationship that is sacred…

What Buddhists consider to be only relative or phenomenal reality (remember the only thing that is real in Tibetan Buddhism is that which is present in deep dreamless sleep! – see Ken Wilber’s One Taste), Christians consider to be the whole meaning and purpose of God – persons-in-relationship, the miracle of we, i.e. the Holy Trinity. And that a person may love God it is necessary not only that there is a God to be loved but also a person to love him/her. Can the Buddhist really praise anything as really distinct from him/her self? Are we to seek God in the deeper and deeper regions of our own ego, or in the unconditional claim of the other person - the stranger, the foreigner, the widow and the orphan who come to us in their absolute singularity?

So in the Non-dual teachings of the East we get introspection, quietism, divine egoism and social indifference – Western Buddhism. But by insisting on the transcendence of God (the qualitative distinction between divine and human) we get wonder, astonishment, fear and trembling, curiosity, moral and political adventure, righteous indignation and social justice – Christianity. By insisting that God is inside man, man is always inside himself. By insisting that God is outside of man, man goes outside of himself.

Where Christ says “Love one another”, the Eastern sage says “Be the only Self in the entire universe”, and this constitutes an intellectual abyss of the first-order that I heartily challenge each and all to respond to… (E.g. see the Three Faces of Spirit DVD or similar link on this site)

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"Become passers-by" (Jesus of Nazareth) 

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Following my passion

I chose my spiritual path by trial and error. It all started after my mother passed away after a lengthy 4+ year period where she suffered badly from emphysema. She lived with me and I took care of her while working as a cytotechnologist (diagnosing cancer in fluid specimens). I worked hard to keep her alive, monitoring her health and communicating with her doctor, cooking healthy meals for her and just plain loving her. After her death her doctor wrote me a note saying he believed I had kept her alive an additional three years longer than he had expected her to survive. It wasn't my fault that she died but I felt that somehow I should have been able to save her, I was only 31 when she passed.

After her death I vowed that I would find a way to provide more help for others I loved who might someday become sick (I also had lost my two beloved grandparents when I was in my early 20's). This vow lead me to search high and low for answers. I began by examining nutrition and over the years my search has moved through any number of topics- holistic medicine, yoga, Yogananda's teachings, shamanism, Buddhism, auras, reiki and many others. I followed my interests and where my excitement lead me I went. I had to drop my reservations at looking into less than conventional methodologies. I decided that I would allow myself to look into any topic because it was unlikely that I would uncover anything new if I looked down conventional paths. My selection of areas to research may seem disjointed but what happened along the way was that I began to see truths across the traditions and from those commonalities I began to develop my own version of spirituality. I began to merge in psychological concepts. I see the original spiritual traditions as ancient psychologies so things merged together beautifully which is why I gravitated instantly to Ken Wilber's models. Actually, Ken's books pushed me to further research because I was unfamiliar with so many of the traditions and psychological theories he mentioned in his books that I had difficulty reading them and I was compelled to find out more about many of them.

I have shied away from traditional western religions because I feel that individuals should seek their own path and most western religions require you to follow a defined doctrine. Most western religions, in my opinion, do not address the needs of people who are moving in an integral direction. I tend to work instead from as pure a form of the underlying spiritual philosophies of the eastern traditions as I can find. It also concerns me that western religious institutions have the hand of man in control and quite frankly I don't trust my spiritual growth to people who may have both power and money as motivating factors in the construction of their paradigm. I would far rather follow my own instincts to determine what I believe to be true. I also have found that, at least for me, spirituality rooted in meditation is the most effective. I truly believe that despite the apparently haphazard path I have taken to develop my spiritual belief system, that my life has unfolded in an intelligent and intentional way that has led me to where I am today. If I had to do it over, I would do it exactly the same way, and besides, it remains a work in progress and that is a lot of fun.

It is very interesting that as I consider my spiritual beliefs it would be difficult to provide a concise description of my beliefs. This does not mean that I cannot express my beliefs but rather that my spiritual beliefs guide every aspect of my life and are the very foundation of who I am. I do not believe I would have this depth of immersion if I had adopted an "off the shelf" spirituality. I am certain that my way is not for everyone, but it has been a highly satisfactory path for me.

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"tough-minded"..

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 i have trouble conceptualizing some religious concepts... and not in just one religion.. i'm working on my concrete, black/white thinking which is crucial to seeing the world in an integrated fashion.. i can conceptualize but only on a superficial level, i have a problem integrating some ideas into my own life/world....

 

 

 

 

 

adam

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Did I Choose or??

perhaps the path chose me........My path started from within as a small child. I was placed in a children's home for about three months until my Mother could find work and support me and my brother. I was five years old and this experience started my first 2nd person understanding about God. A voice came to me in the dark of the night, where I lay crying and frozen with fear. I was told if I didn't stop crying I would not be allowed to see my brother the next day.This loving voice simply said, "you are not alone I will always be here with you." Something like this, I was only five. What I do remember is that my fear and crying got under control and I was able to see my brother.

What is  important is that this place within me and this presence remained. What happened is I tried to find an outside religion to fit into this presence. This failed miserably. Growing up in the deep South I visited all the religions, hoping to find an alignment with my deeper, loving presence, but kept falling short. Nature and the woods became my path for most of my life. What is interesting is this loving presence kept growing and developing as I grew and developed. My search continued to look into all world religions and I read just about every book on Christianity/ Buddhism to the ever now Integral.

Today, for me, the teachings of Jesus come closest to what I experienced that day in my five year old self.  And, this presence continues to take those teachings and all the great widom teachers and evolve and expand that experience. My path came out of an abiding love within me. This love has grown from within me to reach out and love others and to love and care about my world. I've known so much pain but within my pain were shadows that carried me into this greater light and presence, always, already in greater capacities as I continued to evolve and grow. The more I opened into forgiveness, kindness, compassion, appreciation, humbleness and finally joy, the more I become one with this presence......So, for me, the path choose me then took me out to participate in life where the path continued to evolve and awaken.

Mary Linda

 

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The Chosen Path

Have I chosen one???  I've looked at several traditions, thoug baptised Christian, I find that Budhism, Hinduism, and Rastafari very appealing.  If I've chosen One, I would have to say it is Integral.  What motivates that choice is actually the lack of tradition and the integration of many.  It has helped me to enjoy the perspectives of others from their chosen paths, and been difficult because most individuals that I come into contact with have no concept of Integral, and find my lack of one traditional commitment disconcerting.  As a result, I learned that I do not really speak of Integral, but speak to the individual from their traditional viewpoint.  My difficulty or reluctance in choosing a single perspective to live by has really been about fellowship in greater numbers.  I can relate to individual, but groups become agitated in a way that I find exclusive rather than inclusive.  Even in the Integral Universe I have felt shunned or rejected or excluded from fellowship and communion.  (I wonder how long it will take for people to read any post I've made today, much less respond in a positive manner, smiles, though perhaps that is in a sense the authenticity of this site!?)  The appeal of the various traditions is just that, the variety, and the potential integral diversity!  O I JUST LOVE IT!  The appeal of no tradition, or rather multiple tradtions is that I've more perspectives to communicate from, and then can communicate to more people, and it is the relationships with people on any path that really gives me cause to celebrate.  In fact for me it is all about RELATIONSHIPS!

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My path chose me

I didn't choose my path so much as my path chose me.  At a time when I was undergoing a transition from Orange to Green, I was getting heavily into LSD.  During one particularly powerful trip, my whole world shifted as I saw before me a vision of Jesus Christ, and felt his radiant, all-embracing compassion envelop my entire being.  I accepted him into my heart, and my life was forever changed.

That was really the beginning of a long spiritual journey for me.  Not to say that I was a hard-nosed materialist prior to that -- I had joined the meditation club on campus, and was taking a class on Buddhism -- but overall, I was much more secular in terms of how I lived my life.  My Christological vision caused a major change within me that made me want to live my life for God.

I have to say, of all the religious paths I could have followed, I never could have imagined myself being a Christian.  And since I was well past Blue/Amber, I needed a fresh take on what Christianity meant to me.  For a while I got into Gnosticism, but I felt uncomfortable with its purely ascentionist attitude which shunned all things worldly.  I had gotten into Gnosticism only because I was not aware of the mystical tradition within the main current of Christianity, as expemplified by such figures as Meister Eckhart or St. John of the Cross.

In any case, I am in some sense still searching for my path.  Even though I know Christianity is my path, I have not really found an Integral way of practicing Christianity.  Sitting in a pew every Sunday and listening to some preacher speak does not really satisfy what I'm looking for in a worship service.  The one thing I really like about church is the Eucharist.  I'm thinking about going to some contemplative prayer meetings, but that would be more of a spiritual practice rather than a worship service.  Mostly, I practice my religion in private, praying to God and living my faith in my daily life.  I pray that someday I will find the right sangha for me.  It's lonely enough being Integral.  It's incredibly lonely being and Integral Christian.

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A Spiritual Journey by Ram Dass

By trial and error and by listening to your own heart! Ram Dass expressed my own experience in the best possible way in his audio program (CD/tapes) A Spiritual Journey.

Namaste!

Mariana Bozesan, PhD, MS
Diplom-Informatikerin
Serial Social Entrepreneur | Venture Philanthropist | Author

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A Spiritual Journey by Ram Dass

By trial and error and by listening to your own heart! Ram Dass expressed my own experience in the best possible way in his audio program (CD/tapes) A Spiritual Journey.

Namaste!

Mariana Bozesan, PhD, MS
Diplom-Informatikerin
Serial Social Entrepreneur | Venture Philanthropist | Author

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A Spiritual Journey by Ram Dass

By trial and error and by listening to your own heart! Ram Dass expressed my own experience in the best possible way in his audio program (CD/tapes) A Spiritual Journey.

Namaste!

Mariana Bozesan, PhD, MS
Diplom-Informatikerin
Serial Social Entrepreneur | Venture Philanthropist | Author

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A Spiritual Journey by Ram Dass

By trial and error and by listening to your own heart! Ram Dass expressed my own experience in the best possible way in his audio program (CD/tapes) A Spiritual Journey.

Namaste!

Mariana Bozesan, PhD, MS
Diplom-Informatikerin
Serial Social Entrepreneur | Venture Philanthropist | Author

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Diversity Within Diversity

I was raised Roman Catholic and grew up in the era following Vatican II.  While I always felt a certain relationship with the Divine, I made a kind of conscious decision to follow my intuitions during the Jesus Movement of the early 70s.  Now this didn't exactly jive fully with my Catholic experience, but then again it did not contradict it either.  During college I ran into several Baptist and Methodist theologians who, to my shock, thought very highly of Catholic theology and spirituality, so rather than discount my childhood religion, I felt free to embrace it more fully. 

I began a career in boadcasting, producing documentaries.  Over the years I was put in situations in which I was able to investigate many personal stories, expressions, and experiences of faith.  These left a definite, vivid imprint.  Over time, I also had occasion to process many diverse facets of my own Roman Catholicism....the Gospels, yes, but also Vatican II, the early Church Fathers, the Desert Fathers, the Franciscan renewal, Celtic Monasticism...all the while dealing with these other very personal stories.  It all became like a connect-the-dots-picture.  The dots, these very credible faith-expressions, were all interconnecting, and a certain image was emerging. 

I should say that my interest in all this study....and this has been going on for 38 years...was not so much about history per se, but in the personal journey and dynamics of real-life, lived faith....the journey...and how that has happened in various times and places.  Critical history studies helped seperate fact from fiction...generally the fact was more meaningful than the  fiction, although something can be learned even there.  The thing is....although there is much to lament about what went wrong with Catholicism...there were many who got it right.  Some even got it very right. 

So I guess the lesson is that an integral approach helped even within my own chosen path.  Given the span of human history and experience, integration makes a great deal of sense.  My own path has allowed me to crack open much that was previously invisible to me in my own tradition.  I also found that other awarenesses...such as those of Native American or Celtic spirituality, at one time found a natural home in my faith tradition....even though they may not be seen very clearly in the present time, at one time they were there.

Living with this input remains interesting...if anything it is an invitation to my own life of prayer and action in this world, my own response to the Divine.  The abundance of input might leave one with some answers, but even more it leaves one to encounter a Mystery that is beyond mere intellect.  If study shows anything, it shows that this Reality is meant to be experienced oneself. 

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Re:How do you choose a spiritual path?

Spirituality, in a wide variety of cultural and religious concepts, is often seen as a spiritual path, along which one advances to achieve a given objective, such as a higher state of awareness,642-661 outreach wisdom or communion with God or with creation. Plato's Allegory of the Cave, which appears in book VII of The Republic, is a description of such a journey, as are the writings of Teresa of Avila. The spiritual journey is a path that has a dimension primarily subjective and individual. For a spiritual path may be considered a path of short duration, 117-101 directed at a specific target, or a lifetime. Every event of life is part of this journey, but in particular one can introduce some significant moments or milestones, such as the practice of various spiritual disciplines (including meditation, prayer, fasting), the comparison with a person believed with deep spiritual experience (called a teacher,70-444  assistant or spiritual preceptor, guru or otherwise, depending on the cultural context), the personal approach to sacred texts, etc.

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Show me your unoriginal face.

It would seem that the general sameness of reality is what we can call that which connects us. Yet the outstretch of the tree branches of the tree are shaped quite differently. And this is how I understand the integral perspective. To say that pre-rational is an opposite of post-rational is to stick another duality onto a unifying theory. In general, the two perspectives are perspectives. So their sameness has been established. I think this ability to look at the sameness and the differences with our wisdom and discriminate wisely with care for all who live in the world, this is a great place to start. Experience alone can bring one to these true understandings. These understandings do not require belief in order to remain common sense. 

 

It is very challenging to give up the Santa. And by "the Santa" I mean magic/mythic Jesus. Jesus was a dude. A regular homie. And one who had transcended, I would assume, the the attachment to words and names, so obviously wouldn't condemn you to Hell for distinguishing between the Santa and the regular Joe Jesus. How can anyone relate to an alien? Because Jesus' Dad is like the biggest alien of them all, living nowhere near this planet, yet always able to fuck with it. 

 

I relate to a Jesus as the hero of the mythological story, beginning of course with our character starting off without his biological father. How many of us men in this generation have felt that with our own fathers, even if they did live in the same house? And we see this other guy the church is all about called Jesus, and he is supposed to be the best. And he doesn't have his real father around. And his circumstances make him very alone. 

Sometimes I think that stories can actually shape an entire culture. The majority of our country believes, and has for generations, that the end of the world is going to come any minute. And it was only in the last century that such possibilities fell within the hands of our species. And I know this is off topic, but perhaps it is important to explore the grand synchronicity or even awesome coincidence of the new idea of enlightenment coming full-force into the western world like mushroom clouds of love in response to this new species suicidal ability. Like Jung and Freud just so happening to be within driving distances of each other in Europe and both acting as a masculine and feminine balancing ball of enlightenment in the fields of psychology for the modern world. There is balance in the force. 

The timing of the Chinese invasion and the holocaust of around 1 million Tibetan people within the last 50 or so years, seemed to coincide with a period when an entire nation (the United States) was probably projecting a lot of guilt in the form of fear onto the outer world of other nations after having dropped two nuclear bombs on two largely populated civilian cities in Japan. This would definitely help us look at the fear and backyard bomb shelter building going on in those days, but the point is that with this kind of fear is also a prayer, or rather a cry out for salvation, to hijack a term and use it in a way that doesn't require God to kill any of his kids. So what happens? For the first time since the beginning of Tibetan culture (about 1500 years), a culture filled with those who focused almost entirely on the human mind and consciousness penetratingly and with very little distraction from the world, massive amounts of Tibetans began migrating and escaping to other countries, bringing the Dharma into the world with a bang. If zen can be considered unassuming, we can call Tibetan Buddhism the dancing feminine who pirouettes through the sand garden. Watching these events unfold has been a gift that no cable television set could ever offer, and I do feel the pain of all who have suffered. But I think we can see that there are also positive things that have come out of the ashes. This has been the case with much of my own learning. 

The holocaust during World War II was one of my greatest teachers. And I think all the chaos and mass murdering the United States did by nuking two civilian cities, and the Germans, Italians, and Russians did for that stretch of madness, was a big eye opener for the open-hearted youth coming into the world around those times. It wasn't more than twenty years later that the equal rights movements entered into full swing. We are lucky to have the concept and reality of enlightenment enter into the vernacular to such a degree that it has. And there are millions and millions of Americans who are very grateful that the Dharma has come to the west. 

 

It seems that we get stuck, see, because I was stuck when I was six and they said I would burn if I didn't believe everything they said. And so I held onto that stage of development, which was pre-rational, because to do otherwise meant punishment for eternity and being alone forever as well. We can see the challenge we are facing in communicating these ideas with people who are still clinging tight to this very immature stage of psychological function. We really do care about them. And so how do we develop a language that takes all of these factors in our understanding of this particular predicament and apply them toward creating a way of communicating that doesn't raise any red-flags. That sounds very important right now. I'm really of that belief at this point. 

My personal practice is an integral practice of twice daily zazen (just sitting, Soto), yoga every other day, running 8 to 10 miles every other day or so. eating predominantly vegetarian organic (though today I had a burger for the first time in half a year), and doing shadow work as much as my ego will allow at this point. The resistance and contraction has been a bitch lately. I can see why 5 years of this would massively help with transformation. I also listen to and watch many hours of video and audio of the integral peeps (and you know who you are) which keeps me feeling like I'm part of a Sangha.

Which brings me to my final point on this answer to what has been the path and the practice. I don't feel attracted in the least to the boring and disengaged life of a monk in a monastery. This doesn't appeal to me. And I have been planning for years to join one, never really admitting to myself how boring the whole thing looked. Our culture isn't attracted to the strictly planned day. I see why this may be good for some. But I feel that my sangha is here, and I know that there are very few places to get this kind of conversation on the  kind of ball that it is here within the integral community. If there were a place for us to come together for this type of learning and communing, and this as a similar substitute for a monastery, I'd be down to make the leap. But we can't do that because then Integral has the chance of being publicly perceived as a cult, which would suck ass. So for now, I hang with the integral learning and listening and the trees in the woods, that's my sangha. 

I've had interesting encounters with teachers, and I know that the ego is a bitch to transcend because it's so fucking out of control. And they say it's a closed loop and cannot spot itself. It's hard to see. I've had my ego become pretty enormous and then fall right onto my body and make me flat like a pancake. This has been a great spiritual practice. I advise you to go and get the jobs that get you laid the most, like Tom Cruise Cocktail style bar tending. This will give you the greatest sense of being great in the eyes of others your ego could ever ask for. And eventually it will all fall apart. I mean, you're working with booze, man! So your ego becomes your best teacher. Over time you decide not to take things to such extremes, because the lesson has always been pain. I suppose that this might be a place that allows the ego to be at a more manageable and healthier size, thus making it easier to transcend. Now for the whole transcending part. Counting breaths. Meditation's a bitch lately. I'm witnessing the feeling of resistance at focusing awareness in the moment to moment present. I know that I may be avoiding the present for some reason. And it's most likely because of the ego's fear of its own death. Wow! Don't know. 

So that's it, and it's been nice sharing. 

Billy Guilfoyle

 

 Billy Guilfoyle, Integral Mind

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Spiritually homeless, advice welcomed.

I feel the pull to find a particular path, I believe I would enjoy/benefit from its security and I think Integral suggests strongly that I should 'HAVE TO' find one, in order to deepen spiritually.

I have been with several gurus/teachers, and they have touched me very deeply. I have been envious and respectful on more then a few occassions of those who can go so totally the bakti(surrendered) path with a guru, but alas it doesnt seem my destiny.

I have tried eastern techniques and experienced some wonderful moments but nothing that satisfies 'sustainably'. I have looked to the western christian way and although open and appreciative of its wisdoms, I seem to lack the jump of 'faith' required to follow the christ figure.

I am aware ofcourse of many non-traditional paths and living in Byron Bay Australia I have tasted many, but nothing has chosen me( nor have known the clarity to choose one)

I have loved finding integral and to be honest I held high hopes early on, that this might be a path for me at last. But understand now, as Ken says 'Integral is the exterior map of the path(s), not itself an interior path. To know that you need to find a practice(path) and do it - no way round it'.

My deepest spiritual experience (i mention because maybe it offers an insight into what my path/practice might be) came from sitting alone in a busy restruant in south india. I had just finished recieving 7 days of painful massages, for an even more painful back injury and was getting over a heartbreak. Had suffered alot. I was an alien in this non-tourist town. As I sat there alone I was spontanously drawn into a  deep, soft, and open contemplation upon two subjects. One being 'LOVE', What is it? the other being 'THIS WORLD'.  As I did this, two things happened that seem to have sent me into satori.

  Firstly I was simply watching a very loving and kind indian middle class family arrive for lunch. What struck me was, that this beautifully dressed(western style),  family seemed like the most 'perfect ideal' western 'nuclear family' id ever seen and here I was in a very non-tourist Indian town.  The LOVING APPRECIATION and IRONY of viewing this somehow touched me deeply.

  Secondly just then a waiter stopped to ask me sweetly, what I wanted order. This 'startled' me as it was completely unexpected, as for the previous 7 days I had the hardest time to even get the waiters attention at all, as they wissed by the tables. Literally id been having to grab one and hold him there to give the order. So this was a 'shock', like a sweet zen stick.

The satori seemed to happen just then. It was, as satories are, full of loving peace and connection with all that is. A deep sense of home, the ordinary became miraculous, the miraculous became ordinary ....etc. As it came without warning, it left without warning. As they do!

So is some christian-contemplative/zen combination the path for me????????  Perhaps Mondo-Zen?

To answer the question why dont I  have a path? Clearly I dont know, but some wild stabs in the dark are.

-  To much educated for my own good, about the pitfuls of any particular path. lacking the required innocense for the  neccessary leap of faith. 

-  Lack a sufficient groundedness on lower levels to sustain a higher level path.

- Weak willed, to lazy perhaps due to some unknown, unresolved personal trust/faith issues

-  Perhaps ken is wrong and I dont need a particular path.

-  Path it is just around the corner, a new path still emerging.

Your reflection or advice is welcomed.

Loving regards David

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I don't know! I'm not kidding.

Have I chosen one?

Yes and now.   I meant to say yes and no, but there it is.   True story.  I could say the path choose me, but even I can see through that.   I could say it is not quite the truth to deny it and it is not quite a lie to affirm it.  I think Rumi said that.  And he was right.  

What path did you choose?

This one.  The one where I am 33 years old living my dreams.    Yes, I know.   If it is true that not to select a path is to select a path, then that one, no?  I would say paths.   Part of my challenge was to simply understand there were many paths.  And then to realize that some paths are more or less suited based upon where I want to go.

What factors motivated you to choose that tradition over others?

I like to think the small amount of Cherokee blood that runs through my veins does something.   I have always felt, for a time secret, then guilty, then angry, then confused, then understanding, an affinity with the idea of communicating with the spirits in things, especially animals.  Now: my holy communion is my every meal.  I feel silly folding my hands and talking with my eyes closed (unless I'm on stage with a guitar) it is that the act of eating is infused with the gratitude.  I simply choose those traditional aspects in harmony with me, of the culture, and use them.  Sigh, I am actually fairly within the limits of normal, if there is such a thing.

How has choosing one tradition helped you or been difficult for you?

I appreciate the greater simplicity.  "Before enlightenment... after enlightenment" and all that jazz.  I still have to pay rent and some bills.   I'm still trying to learn the whole right-lively-hood business, and I am making progress.   And, there's a reason for the things that I have owned.   I don't have anything I don't want.  That may not seem like much.  

It has been my experience that it is painful when special relationships are seen for what they are and sometimes one perceives certain channels have been closed and are missed with visceral longing.  EVERYTHING is cured by time.  It has also been my experience that afterwards, you and the other are always good.

What advice can you offer others in making this decision?

Never take advice!

Are you having difficulty or reluctance in choosing a path?

Sometimes.  Not NOW.  Not really.

What do you think is keeping you from choosing?

What?

What appeals to you about the various traditions?

I genuinely like being with people (most people).  I like being with other people.  That's what I like and is in common with all the traditions.   I also like to exert influence over my environment.   I like the way everyone can play an instrumental in church or the campfire.  The food.   The mythology.   The stars.   Family, friends.

What appeals to you about no tradition?

The opportunity.

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personal answer :p

Have you chosen one?

Nope !

 

What path did you choose?

I didn't ...

 

What factors motivated you to choose that tradition over others?

Well rather than reply kind of obviously like above, I would say what factors motivated me to not choose any tradition at all :

Reasoning and contradictions, but those are just small factors, because in the end, almost any kind of faith could be seen as reasonable from at least one perspective, and contradictions overcome in one way or another...

However, the most important factor that motivated me to not choose a tradition was to see how people applied that tradition in their daily life.

 

How has choosing one tradition helped you or been difficult for you?

It's not since I haven't chosen one !

 

What advice can you offer others in making this decision?

I know it sounds cliché, but maybe there is some truth in all those movies, you know, "listen to your heart" "young padawan, the force is in you". That kind of thing, at the end of the day, I do believe that is true.

 

Are you having difficulty or reluctance in choosing a path?

Nope, I'm not even trying to.

 

What do you think is keeping you from choosing?

Maybe the fear of making "the wrong choice". Maybe not... Maybe rather, that I do not relate to any of the traditions that I know of. 

Although there are many "things" or "points" that sort of make sense, none of them (that I know of) feels entirely "trustworth" in that in "reality", in "actions", the believers, including the teachers, actually don't seem to apply what they say they believe in.

Ironically, those that do seem like they have completely lost touch with reality.

 

What appeals to you about the various traditions?

What appeals most to me is that I feel or think there may be bits of pieces that are more or less true, that I can sort of use to guide me on my own path.

 

What appeals to you about no tradition?

Less brainwashing, less manipulation, less religious wars, critical thinking, expression, freedom, moral aspirations that (ironically) seem to be more ethical, forcing people - whether they like it or not - to think and believe for themselves rather than gobble up some story about the world and what lies beyond or before, then tuck it away in a corner to be used once a week or when things get tough. Even if they do follow it constantly, just like when you love someone or something, it blinds you.

 

 

But I still haven't answered your question, which was the reason I wanted to reply :)

 

How do you choose a spiritual path?

I don't. I don't "decide"...

I listen to my heart, it's not easy, but if I really, truly care, I listen to myself, I listen to what I feel. I spend time thinking about it, I spend time making an effort (not a difficult one, not an unatural one) trying to figure it out. I listen to others, I read about others, what they think, what they sing, what they create, what they feel, I observe others, I talk to others. 

I express myself, I communicate.

I think about it a lot, but in the end, I listen to my heart and let it guide me. 

In fact, my answer would not be "I don't choose a path, I listen to my heart", it would be "I don't choose a path, I follow my heart".


 

 

--

 

One day, you going to need someone  to stand by you

www.youtub

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The flow

Yes , and its an ongoing choice.

The path I chose is knowing this is it, and there is nothing to get.

The motivating factor was learning how to listen and speak distinct from how I used to listen and speak.

Choosing being source of  experience  has cut down on putting miles on my car .

My advice is ,,,, Be still ,,do nothing ,,then choose knowing being source of whatever you experience,,,be it happy or sad. ,,Know there is nothing wrong in the Now until you think about it.

What is so appealing is that life flows when I am not here.