Inquiry
How do you choose a spiritual path?
Have you chosen one? What path did you choose? What factors motivated you to choose that tradition over others? How has choosing one tradition helped you or been difficult for you? What advice can you offer others in making this decision?
Are you having difficulty or reluctance in choosing a path? What do you think is keeping you from choosing? What appeals to you about the various traditions? What appeals to you about no tradition?
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Life of Pi
Posted August 27th, 2009 by Stephen KladderI was taken by the small boy in the book The Life of Pi who proclaimed he was a Buddhist, a Christian and a Muslim and all the adults around him said he had to choose one or the other. I can relate. I was "given" the spiritual path (which incidentally almost entirely lacked spirituality) of the Dutch Calvinist Reformed Church -- total depravity, limited atonement, predestination, etc. and a lot of obscure intellectuality that covered up for what happens to most spiritual traditions when they become institutionalized: exercises in control, then power, and the pursuit of wealth.
I have since engaged a spiritual path that has left much of that behind, retained the living in relationship examples of the Christ, the compassion of the Buddha, the everything out of nothing of the Tao, the insights of Krishnamurti leading to total freedom and the coming back to being in communion with the earth and all living things of native American spiritual traditions.
I try to keep things simple, to wit: the meaning of life is to fill time and space. After all, that is what life does: fills time and space. It begs the question, how does one fill time and space: clutching, grasping, attaching, pursuing, demanding or encouraging, being of service, loving, listening, sharing, ....we get to choose.
Stephen Kladder
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geetyr
Posted January 30th, 2010 by aokesota in response to Life of PiAt G.K. Chesterton pointed out: simply consider the startling differences in the style of their religious art, in which the soul of these religions is made visible to us. No two inner religious ideals could be more opposite than a painting of a medieval Christian saint with eyes wide open, looking with fierce intensity outwards, staring at the world in astonishment and anguished intimacy – and a painting of a Buddhist sage with eyes mcts shut in blissful peace, and with a peculiar inward intent oblivious to the happenings of the world around him. And the contention here is that there must be some real divergence at the innermost core of these traditions which produces such opposing symbols. From another angle, It is a commonplace stance in many spiritual circles to say that the esoteric core mcts 70-536 of all the great traditions ascribes to the same fundamental notion of Absolute Truth in terms of a direct apprehension of Non-dual Awareness – i.e. the simple recognition that “There is only Spirit” as ones always already Free Self, a Self that existed from before the Big Bang and is fully present at each and mcts certification every point of the temporal process. From the perspective of radical Non-dual Truth - which is said to be the ultimate realization of all the world’s great religion - the whole universe arises inside ones very own Big Mind, and it is just here that Buddhism and Christianity diverge in their central teachings.
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DID LIKE WHAT YOU WROTE.
Posted February 5th, 2010 by Pam Maccabee in response to Life of PiYES.
Warmly,
Pam
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On Christian Love and Buddhist Emptiness...
Posted October 23rd, 2008 by camfreeWhile the popular New Age philosophy of “cosmic balance” tells us that all pairs of opposites (e.g. masculine/feminine, light/dark) are really one and the same, Integral philosophy (as pioneered by Ken Wilber) has a more discerning position: things which seem to be one and the same are really opposites. Just a few examples of this from Ken’s own body of work include: states & stages of consciousness, pre-rational & trans-rational structures of consciousness, qualitative depth (better) & population span (bigger) and the “mutual interpenetration of all things” in quantum physics & Eastern mysticism – all of these opposing categories were once seen to be one and the same, but in the clear light of integral theory they are now seen to be describing very different dimensions of reality.
Likewise, it is widely accepted in the New Age movement that “All religions are the same”, different paths up the same mountain – and this is said to be especially true of Christianity and Buddhism. In other words, according to the popular New Age philosophy, while these two faith traditions seem to be different in their exoteric surface features they are really one and the same in their esoteric deep features - i.e. their external rites and rituals may look different, but their interior essence (usually a version of Non-dual awareness) is very much the same…
Here, then, I want to challenge the alleged spiritual/esoteric identity of Christianity and Buddhism and suggest that the truth is exactly the opposite – the exoteric surface features of Buddhism and Christianity are much the same - they both have priests, temples, scriptures, ceremonies, alters, sacred postures, mantras, secret brotherhoods - it is precisely in their esoteric depths that they are divided.
To begin, all religions believe that we humans are caught up in a net of sin (suffering, delusion, ignorance) – and that there is some way out, a way of liberation, salvation or Enlightenment. But as to what constitutes the way out it seems to me that no two institutions in the world contradict each other so flatly as Christianity and Buddhism…
At G.K. Chesterton pointed out: simply consider the startling differences in the style of their religious art, in which the soul of these religions is made visible to us. No two inner religious ideals could be more opposite than a painting of a medieval Christian saint with eyes wide open, looking with fierce intensity outwards, staring at the world in astonishment and anguished intimacy – and a painting of a Buddhist sage with eyes shut in blissful peace, and with a peculiar inward intent oblivious to the happenings of the world around him. And the contention here is that there must be some real divergence at the innermost core of these traditions which produces such opposing symbols.
From another angle, It is a commonplace stance in many spiritual circles to say that the esoteric core of all the great traditions ascribes to the same fundamental notion of Absolute Truth in terms of a direct apprehension of Non-dual Awareness – i.e. the simple recognition that “There is only Spirit” as ones always already Free Self, a Self that existed from before the Big Bang and is fully present at each and every point of the temporal process. From the perspective of radical Non-dual Truth - which is said to be the ultimate realization of all the world’s great religion - the whole universe arises inside ones very own Big Mind, and it is just here that Buddhism and Christianity diverge in their central teachings.
To put it simply, Buddhism teaches compassion for all sentient beings because they are ultimately manifestations of one’s own true Self, while Christianity is grounded in love – and real love requires separation between persons. The Eastern sage says we are all Spirit (as un-qualifiable Emptiness) showing up with many different faces or aspects, that there are no real walls of individuality between different persons in the world. However, the Christian impulse is to love precisely that which is Other, to love the other person in the absolute singularity of who they are, to love that which is not-I. A Christian does not love someone because they arise inside of his/her own Self but because they are different, strange, foreign, because that person shows up in my world from some unheard of dimension, just as a man loves a woman because she is entirely different from himself. To put it bluntly, in the Non-dual traditions of the East we are not to Love our neighbors, rather we are to Be our neighbors, but as G. K. Chesterton put it, “If souls are separate love is possible. If souls are united love is obviously impossible.” So it’s not so much that Love has no opposite (as the original punk monk himself Stuart Davis kindly suggests), but rather that opposites make Love possible!
Or again, where teachers of Eastern Enlightenment (e.g. Andrew Cohen) consider the insidious ego-personality to be fallen, like a drop of water that must return home to a the vast ocean of Emptiness, it is the instinct of Christianity to be glad that God has broken the universe into little fragments, because they are living, breathing fragments. So in contrast to the teachers of Impersonal Enlightenment that recognize no ultimate boundaries in reality, Christianity has always insisted that the boundary between God and the world (and the collective passions of human history) is not something to be regarded as unreal, illusory, or deficient. That is the Judeo-Christian tradition has always seen Creation as “good, very good” (Genesis), not merely a veil of ignorance or illusion, and as such God wants us all to become real persons with a capacity to love one another, rather than the position of the Eastern traditions which teach one large ego to love him/her self and have regard other people in so far as they arise inside ones own awareness...
So Christian love desires real personality, and personality requires division. That is, love requires that two people are different, set apart from each other, so that they are inseparable only in so far as they embody very real differences. In other words, there must be a creative tension between two people that are different (i.e. a masculine and a feminine personality type) for the loving union between them to be real…
So love divides where many Eastern traditions breed indifference and uniformity. As the 1st century Nazarene said, “I have come not with peace but a sword”, a sword which comes to separate, to set free - and even to set brother against brother... The point being that no other religion makes God rejoice in the separation of the universe into living souls, but according to Christianity it is this qualitative difference between divinity and humanity, and the real distinction between persons in relationship that is sacred…
What Buddhists consider to be only relative or phenomenal reality (remember the only thing that is real in Tibetan Buddhism is that which is present in deep dreamless sleep! – see Ken Wilber’s One Taste), Christians consider to be the whole meaning and purpose of God – persons-in-relationship, the miracle of we, i.e. the Holy Trinity. And that a person may love God it is necessary not only that there is a God to be loved but also a person to love him/her. Can the Buddhist really praise anything as really distinct from him/her self? Are we to seek God in the deeper and deeper regions of our own ego, or in the unconditional claim of the other person - the stranger, the foreigner, the widow and the orphan who come to us in their absolute singularity?
So in the Non-dual teachings of the East we get introspection, quietism, divine egoism and social indifference – Western Buddhism. But by insisting on the transcendence of God (the qualitative distinction between divine and human) we get wonder, astonishment, fear and trembling, curiosity, moral and political adventure, righteous indignation and social justice – Christianity. By insisting that God is inside man, man is always inside himself. By insisting that God is outside of man, man goes outside of himself.
Where Christ says “Love one another”, the Eastern sage says “Be the only Self in the entire universe”, and this constitutes an intellectual abyss of the first-order that I heartily challenge each and all to respond to… (E.g. see the Three Faces of Spirit DVD or similar link on this site)
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"Become passers-by" (Jesus of Nazareth)
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Jesus and I respectfully disagree
Posted October 31st, 2008 by Jerry Sherwood in response to On Christian Love and Buddhist Emptiness...Jesus Prayer for the Disciples
John 18:21-23
"That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me and I in thee; that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me."
"And the glory that thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one even as we are one:"
"I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me."
It would appear that to Jesus (as these words are attributed to him) or at least one of the earliest Christians that they did not see that it was necessary for there to be division for there to be love. In fact, it appears quite the contrary.
As J. Krishnamurti noted: "where there are borders, there is conflict" One look at the divided world around us, with bare attention, setting aside our personal convictions, and this fact becomes obvious. Where Love is unity prevails. (man and wife, Christian church as body of Christ, The Taoist and Everything, are just a few examples)
It is in the clarity of Conscious Awareness that Truth is revealed.
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Unity-in-diversity
Posted October 31st, 2008 by camfree in response to Jesus and I respectfully disagreeYes Jerry, you do have a good point here. Just a couple of ideas in response.
John's gospel is not considered by most New Testament scholars to have any material that actually stems from the historical Jesus. It was written about 70 years after the crucifixion and it's pretty easy to see that the figure of Jesus portrayed in John is very different from the Jesus of the earlier gospels (especially Mark and Q - which are widely held to be the earliest sources).
John's Jesus gives voice to somewhat didactic and authoritarian 'high Christology' (e.g. all the "I am" sayings) - whereas the Jesus of the synoptic gospels almost never speaks about himself in the first person... In fact, in the earliest traditions, as soon as someone calls Jesus the Messiah (often it is the demon possessed who do this), he tells them to be shut up and be silent (i.e. more meditation!)... So John's Jesus is really a kind of preordained Logos of God ("that the world may believe that thou hast sent me") and this reflects the needs of the infant Church a lot more than the words and deeds of Jesus in enacting his vision of the Kingdom of God...
Secondly, the passages you quote do make a clear distinction between I and Thou, and between I and Them - even as they affirm that these differences are indeed one: i.e.unity-in-diversity... It seems that a kind of proto-Trinitarian theology is being developed here... but the distinction between persons-in-relationship is pretty evident.
So my point is that the divisions are real, just as the one-ness is real - and so we would do well not to elevate or reduce one to the other... As Ken Wilber says: Reality is made of whole/parts (holons) - which also means unity/diversity, so we cannot really privilege either perspective, but live with the tension between them...
Also, there is also virtually nothing in the Gospels about us all being aspects of One consciousness, but rather a unsettling and awkward message about God revealing himself in the scandal of the crucified and god-forsaken Jesus...
And the love of God in the Christ-event did divide the history of the Western world in two... That said, you do have a point, it's just that one of the things that I appreciate about the Integral map is it's capacity to make loving distinctions in a way that can reduce conflict...
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"Become passers-by" (Jesus of Nazareth)
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Yes and no
Posted October 31st, 2008 by Jerry Sherwood in response to Unity-in-diversityYou are quite correct, the words attributed to Jesus in John are not, but most modern scholars, considered as part of the sayings of Jesus. (You probably noted that indication in my post).
From what you are saying it seems you are indicating a more pure form of Christianity. I spent a fair amount of effort at one time to see if that could be discerned but, in the end you are only left with oppinions. Be that as it may, we can both agree on what you say about Unity in Diversity. Strange, but I was probably composing my post on just that topic about the time you were writing this.
I do not agree though with your assesment of Eastern religions in general and Buddhism in particular when you seem to imply that they stop at emptiness (maximum unity) and do not see value in diversity (fullness). Zen, in particular, and Mahayana in general addresses this question fully. As do the non-dual schools of the East.
Consider the Zen saying: Before enlightenment Mountains are mountains and rivers are rivers, At enlightenment there are no mountains there are no rivers, after enlightenment mountains are mountains and rivers are rivers.
Then there are the Ten Oxherding pictures that symbolize the path of enlightenment. The ninth picture is simply an O, which symbolizes emptiness (maximum unity) and the tenth picture shows the monk returning to the market place which symbolizes his willing (and dare I say eager) participation in the world of diversity.
Next, when you look at the mystics in the Christian tradition, such as Eckhart, St. John of the Cross, St. Teressa (sp?), and more recently Bernadette Roberts (author of Path to No Self) and Father Keating you see that they too, when approaching the fullness of God speak in terms of full unity (whether with metphors of marriage, union, or no self). So, I would say that when followed to the maximum hieghts (depths) all interior exlorations do ultimately lead to the same revelation. There is only ONE without a second, but that One is also Many. Unity in Diversity, Diversity in Unity.
Non of this is to say that there are not those that have not fully got it in any tradition. The main divioins in some of the Buddhist tradition have to do with what the end game is, emptiness or non dual Emptiness/Fullness.
Anyway, this has been fun. It is always a pleasure to read what you have to say. Even if we do not alwasy agree. In fact maybe because we do not always agree
Jerry
It is in the clarity of Conscious Awareness that Truth is revealed.
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Comment to "On Christian Love and Buddhist Emptiness..."
Posted November 6th, 2008 by Mats Larsson in response to On Christian Love and Buddhist Emptiness...Hi camfree,
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Is God moved by suffering?
Posted November 6th, 2008 by camfree in response to Comment to "On Christian Love and Buddhist...Thanks Mats for a very thoughtful response. If I understand you correctly, you're saying that Non-dual awareness (Buddhism) and loving other people (Christianity) can be two sides of the same coin... And I'm simply saying that the distinction between separate persons is real, just as the inseparable unity between us is real, so I think we agree. But people who cannot recognize that there are boundaries between people are psychotics not sages...
A few other points in response:
As kw says, Non-dual Emptiness (vast unqualified space) contributes nothing to the world... In contrast, Love is "something that happens" and it happens between persons in relationship in the real world... You can be perfectly enlightened in Buddhism - have ever-present awareness that 'there is only Spirit' AND be utterly loveless, indifferent or unmoved... The witness is not 'spontaneously in love with all things' but simply a witness... it is not moved to act in the world at all - because everything (form) is already perfect (empty) just as it it - and this is just plain nonsense to me.
I'm basically challenging here the tendency to privilege the Same over the Other, because I believe there can be a tendency in Integral circles to collapse all other-ness (you) into same-ness (I) or squash all differences into oneness (I've witnessed the same thing in Church where a call for unity = eliminate dissent)... But the prophets of Judeo-Christianity threaten and disturb the complacency of the "I" that wants to organize everything around itself: God is different, not what we want or expect, God is wholly Other and cannot be appropriated by our intentions... God is encountered in the stranger who comes knocking in the dead of the night...
So Jesus Christ is on the side of the outsiders (different), the strangers and foreigners - precisely those that the powers that be define as expendable outcasts - and at the same time he has distain for the “false sacred” (same), the all too human temptation to put ones own self on the throne of the divine...
Again, it’s not that Christ is the very "highest" toward which all humans strive... Those who follow Christ don't throw off the world of flesh and seek to become fully divine (that's paganism!)... Christ IS the living God precisely because he is this weak, powerless, despised and crucified heretic and blasphemer – the Great Beyond (God) shines through in this vulnerable defenseless human being... and that's what Love is...
So Jesus is the Christ (God's love embodied) precisely because he is this imperfect creature, because he is god-forsaken, because he is the one who is separated from the Source/God... And in this sense Non-dual emptiness as a non-relational, impersonal 'state of consciousness' in which there are no moving parts is utterly incompatible with (and inferior to) the scandal of the Cross... Thanks for yr penetrating questions though, I really appreciate it. Cameron--
"Become passers-by" (Jesus of Nazareth)
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Posted November 6th, 2008 by admin in response to Is God moved by suffering?Please Log in to Vote.
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Head and heart
Posted November 7th, 2008 by camfree in response to [Comment Deleted]Hi Mark... it's kind of weird reading a selection of my most vitriolic quotes on this topic, it sounds pretty strong hey, but at least you get my point. I'm the first to admit I'm too much in the head and not enough in the heart... but this integral capacity for advanced perspective taking does connect with the heart, I believe... It just loosens egoic defenses and rationalizations helps one take the role of other people, etc... Which opens our hearts, so head and heart combine in this space... And yr right about Ken - his work comes from the heart, and I reckon he is kind of post-Buddhist if you know what I mean. Cameron
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"Become passers-by" (Jesus of Nazareth)
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Re: Is God moved.....
Posted November 7th, 2008 by Jerry Sherwood in response to Is God moved by suffering?Hi Cam
While I greatly respect the depth of your insight into the Christian tradition I remain dissappointed in the shallowness of your insight into the East, Buddhism in particular. You speak as if you have travelled their path, but your statements regarding the "truth" about them demonstrates only a partial knowledge. (albeit a partial knowledge shared by some within those traditions. Just as there are many Christians that hold to partial truths of their tradition) And,your quotations of KW's work is also selective for while he does indeed speak of the shortcomings of being "stuck" in emptiness he also gives tribute to the teaching of the Bodhisattva way of Compassionate action in the world. He in no way suggest that the Budhist teachings are inferior to Christian teachings.
There is nothing wrong with partial knowledge in itself. But when you insist on using it to make off the mark and misleading comparisons it detracts from the Truth that you share concerning the path with which you are fully engaged. The sword you are swinging cuts both ways.
There is indeed a great Truth that you point too. That it is only partial and misleading for us to know a single face of God. That is to say, in first person, as just the great "I AM" this can indeed devolve into the supreme ego. There is equal danger in the partiality of knowing ultimate reality in the 2nd person as the great "Thou Art". We have ample examples of the conflict that comes from the guilty feeling of separatness this engenders as the shadow of guilt is projected on "unbelievers" . And there is the hazzard of simply knowing God/Goddess in the third person as "Nature" for this often leads to a dualistic view that denigrates humans as natures enemy. All of this is why Integral has come to embrace the 1-2-3 of Spirit in Integral Zen practice and the Three Faces of God in Integral Christianity.
In loving kindness,
Jerry
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It is in the clarity of Conscious Awareness that Truth is revealed.
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Three Faces...
Posted November 7th, 2008 by camfree in response to Re: Is God moved.....Jerry,
Good to hear from you and yes you have a good point, the Three faces of God goes a long way towards healing some of the divisive splits that you mention between 1st, 2nd and 3rd person approaches to God... They are all important and necessary, and I did point to this Audio CD at the end of my initial piece to get the conversation moving forward... Thanks for bringing this up.
And yes, I have not emphasized the Bodhisattva vow nearly enough, in which one puts off their own personal enlightenment and vows to return to samsara to help awaken all sentient beings... But can you help me here. As far as I can tell the Bodhisattva vow still refers only to the UL quadrants: it wants to awaken all sentient beings to un-qualifiable Emptiness.
Is there a sense in Mahayana Buddhism that we are to stand up for justice and challenge political dictatorships (We), develop healthy communities (and not simply perform 'ethical action' as a means to personal enlightenment), develop and expand scientific knowledge (It), or is it all about consciousness (I)... I'm not sure, but the Buddhists that I met in my younger years are kind of serene and oblivious to everything other than their own unobstructed awareness...
Or again, do Buddhists acknowledge God in 2nd person? Or 3rd person? I don't know but in my own experience of Buddhism it's all equanimity and no passion - there's no pathos, no desire to 'risk suffering' and take a stand in the world with other people against injustice -the Dalai Lama's refusal to defend the rights of his own Tibetan people against China is a perfect example of this trend.
It's simple for me, I worship a Christian God because I'm a Western man with a passion for life, and so while I do have great respect for many Eastern teachings (especially Zen), I just think their version of Truth is really a reflection a different cultural context... and one where respect for persons and individual liberty is just not a huge part of their tradition. Of course, this cuts both ways, and so the Three Faces is a great way to integrate all this... Cameron
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"Become passers-by" (Jesus of Nazareth)
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Whew!
Posted November 7th, 2008 by Jerry Sherwood in response to Three Faces...I am not sure where to begin here. At least now we are getting clear on some of the root assumptions you make concerning Buddhism. This sheds a great deal of light on much of what you have said previously. I will see what I can do to address them (but probably not all in this one comment). I want to be perfectly clear, I am not a Buddhist. I make no claim to any tradition, other than to acknowledge the value of the essence of Christianity Iwhich I derived from my upbringing in the Southern Baptist tradition (after discarding extraneous beliefs). None-the-less I am well aquainted with Buddhism in particular and Eastern thought in general.
I want to start with what I see as the most glaring and common misconception. That concerns the nature of "equanimity". I want to point out that you frequently display your own vast capacity for equanimity. That is why I knew it was safe to phrase my comment above in somewhat harsh terms. "(shallowness of your insight ...") You did not lash out in defense and get carried away by your emotions. And, your equanimity in no way inhibited you from taking a stand and stating, with appropriate feelings, your own viewpoint. In fact, I would suggest that you are only able to comfortably do so BECAUSE you abide in equanimity, or at least are able to return there if swayed off temporarily. For this reason your communications are very clear and not clouded with personal attacks.
What is commonly mistaken for equanimity is indifference. (which, btw, is indemic in human conditioning) In fact though indifference is a form of resistance. It is the most insidious form of resistance, over and above attachment and aversion. The level of our indifference (the quantity of that which we are indifferent towards) increases in proportion with our resistance to unwanted feelings. Without genuine equanimity it is impossible for us to really feel anything fully at all. There is no intimacy with our feelings. Why? Becasue we are on the defense against unwanted feelings and these defenses are non-discriminatory. If you shield the heart from sorrow you have shielded it from Joy.
Two other things I want to address in this post is the question of social activism in Buddhism and the comment you made about the Dali Lama.
In regards to social activism I would point you towards the work of Thich Nhat Hanh. In "Being Peace" he speaks about the Tiep Hien Order, the Order of "Interbeing". It is a form of engaged Buddhism. This link takes you to other books Engaged Buddhism.
As to the activity of the Dali Lama on behalf of his people, it is grossly inaccurate to characterize his dedication to non-violence as a "... refusal to defend the rights of his own Tibetan people against China ..." He did not win the Nobel Peace prize because he chose to sit in a cave and meditate to attain his own personal bliss. I find this comment from you to be particularly sorrowful.
Finally, you lament that equanimity does not allow for "passion" and "pathos". From the title of your comment above it is apparent that you are using passion in the Christic sense of "suffering". I would point out that the story of Christ on the cross is symbolic of the maximum capacity for Equanimity. "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do" could not possibly be uttered with out this Peaceful Ground on which to Stand.
I leave this with a Prayer of Gratitude that came to me one morning.
I am eternally grateful for the Peaceful Ground of Equanimity on which to stand, the Compassionate Eye of Wisdom that Lights the Way, and the Joyful Heart of Love in action.
Blessings
Jerry
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Posted November 7th, 2008 by admin in response to Whew!Please Log in to Vote.
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Very Interesting
Posted December 1st, 2008 by Michael La Gattuta in response to [Comment Deleted]I find this conversation fascinating. Growing Up Catholic (Indoctrination), finding peace in eastern thought, but coming back to the social action apparent in the work of Jesus recently, I have been looking at this topic for some time. I like what was said about social action against injustice. However, I would probably say that Jesus would want to subvert the current mass consciousness of the West. It is oppressive in a way that almost identically mirrors the situation Jesus faced in his time (in the book). So while I find the peace of eastern thought to be calming, I need to stand up for social injustice more. I feel like helping the sentient beings of this earth wake up is an unbelievable task, but that there might be more forms of oppressive injustice in this world then the early thinkers would have imagined. So, maybe, we need to stand up and get un-enlightened for a bit, maybe drop into that centaur mode, and stand with the oppressed against their oppressors.
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Re: Very Interesting
Posted December 1st, 2008 by Jerry Sherwood in response to Very InterestingHello Michael,
First off, I see this is your first post and I want to extend a "welcome to I-L" to you.
I resonate with your feelings about needing to stand up to social injustice. It is all to easy for us to become comlacent and silent in these matters. However I am a little confused by your last statement, "So, maybe, we need to stand up and get un-enlightened for a bit, maybe drop into that centaur mode, and stand with the oppressed against their oppressors." What do you mean by getting "un-enlightened"?
Thanks
Jerry
--
It is in the clarity of Conscious Awareness that Truth is revealed.
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I guess
Posted December 1st, 2008 by Michael La Gattuta in response to Re: Very InterestingIm speaking kind of vaguely on purpose. I guess what I'm trying to extend is the sentiment that If I focus on my own inner spiritual meditation I kind of do so at the expense of participating in the world of suffering. This is the point from a first person perspective, to quiet your mind, let the dust settle, ect. Recently I have been studying the work of the prophets, especially in Buber, Heschell, and Brueggemann. The account of Jesus as an activist for social change has made me reconsider my own Christian upbringing. I am considering the ethical stance of pursuing inner enlightenment in a world where 99 percent of my fellow humans did not have the advantages growing up that I did, the security, the love from parents and family. This has given me a sound state of mind (most of the time) and I feel like I may have an obligation as a Human, to pursue freedom on behalf of the oppressed.
This is my one criticism with eastern path's. Daoism, my personal favorite, says that changing the world is not possible. Or, that interfering in the world will only result in suffering. I am on the fence about this type of proposition. I have found patience for myself and for others through the practices of the east, but I find them potentially lacking when it comes to actually living in the western world. The world of oppressive royal consciousness (Brueggemann). I find an aspect of what it seems these practices lack in the social action of the prophetic Jesus, the prophetic Moses. So what am I to do?
Being just 22 years old, I know that I shall have to keep an open mind and continue to explore the world as I encounter it. I have to be patient and trust in the creative process of the world. However, I also feel a certain moral indignation when it comes to the oppression that I feel under the surface of my culture. An oppression that numbs us to pleasure and pain, and thus robs us of our humanity. I dont want to just buy into some sort of egoic hero fantasy of being a savior to Humanity, but at the same time that I may have some narcissistic impulses in this regard, I also have a true and divine impulse to help those who suffer.
I remember a certain dream I had recently where I was swimming in a turbulent river underneath a bridge. On the bridge a retirement community was on some sort of trip but there was one old man standing on the railing. He jumped into the river in what I assumed was an attempt at suicide, Instinctively I swam after the man, and brought him back to shore where a monk helped drag him ashore before saying, "Well done brother Michael" and proceeded to give me a fist bump. (Or as Fox news would say, "A terrorist fist jab", haha) Anyways, I had been doubting my intentions in a certain relationship of mine. This dream that felt very real secured in me the belief that I am a good person. That I act instinctively to save others I see in peril or pain. I know there are some impulses of simple ego, but there also is something divinely human coming through in the instinct to help.
I currently am just trying to decide how to live my life. How best do I spread the actualization that I have been so fortunate to be offered by my circumstance. I had thought I had figured it all out and would seek inner enlightenment and the highest levels of meditative bliss. But now Im wondering whether I dont owe it to the Human, to intervene. To do the social act of Jesus, of Moses, of the prophet. I dont know. Im kind of rambling. Do you understand the dilemma I see? Between enlightenment for the self and social action on behalf of the oppressed?
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enlightenment and social action not mutually exclusive
Posted December 1st, 2008 by Jerry Sherwood in response to I guessI must say, for someone just twenty two years old you show a great deal of depth and self reflective honesty. It is to be commended. I have met other young adults who demonstrate this sincerity and it is an encouraging sign. Perhaps it is the gravity of the world situation that keeps you down to earth.
I do not know the level of training or exposure you have had with Eastern traditions such as Daoism but in my studies I have found no conflict at all between enlightenment and social action. In fact, I would say that genuine social action requires an enlightened mind; a mind that clearly sees through the illusion of a separate self.
However, if by "enlightenment for the self" you are speaking about the self absorbed pursuit of happiness and meditative bliss then I would agree, there is a great deal of conflict. But, immho, this is not enlightenment it is escapism.
Teachings about detachment can be interpreted to mean that we are to separate ourselves from the world and seek only the solace of the Great Silence. But, I see this as a gross misinterpretation. I understand detachment to mean non attachment to the results of my action.
When it comes to the Dao and the teaching of non-doing, I interpret this in much the same fashion. It is not a matter of me doing nothing. Rather it is to see that "I" (as ego) cannot and do not do anything because "I" am not real. When I see personal investment in my actions arising in the form of attachment to results it is my cue to look closer at what is going on. I usually find then that not only am I injecting myself into the action I have also skewed it into a less effective direction by trying to steer it to meet my expectations.
It seems to me that your dream spoke directly to these very questions. You saw a man in dire need. There was no thought of self there was only action. You speak of this as instinctive action. What could be more natural than instincts? And, is not the Dao the way of nature?
I am not saying all of this to try to convince you to stay with Eastern teachings. Actually, if you are being drawn back to the Christian tradition I strongly encourage you to follow your heart. But, you may not want to let a misunderstanding of what constitutes enlightenment cause you to devalue what you have learned. It could greatly enhance your return to your roots.
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It is in the clarity of Conscious Awareness that Truth is revealed.
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Thanks
Posted December 2nd, 2008 by Michael La Gattuta in response to enlightenment and social action not mutually exclusiveI share your understanding of the lack of conflict in theory between social action and enlightenment, but I struggle to find the energy to do both at the same time, in my everyday life.
I appreciate your words about self reflective honesty, but let me just say Its alot easier to be self reflective, honest, and patient when I am typing on my keys than being out in the world. Thank you though, it does mean alot to be commended when our culture tends to tear down at every opportunity.
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A final note
Posted December 2nd, 2008 by Jerry Sherwood in response to ThanksI have just one final offering to you Michael. Please, do not feel you need to respond. If what I say is useful then you will make use of it. If not then let it come and go as the wind.
Meditation is not confined to sitting. An artist paints and this can be her practice. A writer writes and the writing is his practice. A drywall finisher finished drywall and this became his practice. As a social activist you will take action and this action can be your practice. It is the attitude you bring to practice that is of value, not the form the practice takes.
Namaste
Jerry--
It is in the clarity of Conscious Awareness that Truth is revealed.
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Christian / Buddhist dialog (Part II)
Posted January 14th, 2009 by camfree in response to On Christian Love and Buddhist Emptiness...Here I want to further unpack the fundamental difference between Christianity and Buddhism set out in my initial post in the hope of responding to some of the questions raised on this thread and thereby helping to move this inquiry forward. For while I do have a deep affinity with aspects of Buddhism, particularly Nagarjuna’s dialectic of Emptiness and the paradoxical teachings of Zen Buddhist masters, I am also convinced that Christianity is the most authentic (i.e. transformative) and the most explicit path to God (by whatever name). So the aim here is to explain why Jesus Christ offers a spiritual path that is utterly unparalleled in the history of world religions, even if it’s just to clarify my own thoughts on this matter...
From an Integral perspective, the most problematic claim of the Christian tradition is that it insists on the “utterly unique and non-reproducible realization of Jesus.” (See KW SES 1995, p.353) In other words, the uncompromising stance of Christianity is that the ineffable mystery of God showed up once and for all in human history – as an itinerant Jew crucified under the Roman Empire as a heretic and blasphemer.
Now this is crucial because no other spiritual tradition has ever claimed that the Creator of the Universe took on human flesh and bones and walked among us – and especially not as a friend of sinners and an antagonist of the established order of things. So while the Jews and Muslims have their Prophets (Moses, Mohammed) and Holy Books (Torah, Koran) the Non-dual traditions of the East have a comprehensive range of spiritual practices and disciplines (meditation, yoga) that enable one to ascend the spectrum of consciousness to the higher realms of being and knowing. But Christianity is unique in the history of religions because it alone proclaims that God revealed God’s own self in human history in the most decisive and unexpected way – in the person of Jesus, the “Logos made flesh”. So where other spiritual traditions have either a Holy Book of external rules or a set of Teachings with practical injunctions for attaining Enlightenment, Christianity is utterly unique in that it holds up a person – Jesus of Nazareth – as the en-fleshed story of God-in-time, and as far as I can see this simply makes dust and nonsense of comparative religion.
To put it another way, in striking contrast to New Age philosophy and Western Buddhism, the Gospel of Jesus Christ is not a system of psycho-spiritual development or a path of ones personal self-realization, nor is it a message about self-improvement or a new way of re-ordering ones private religious interiority... Rather, the Good News of Christianity is the disturbing and unsettling announcement to the world that “Jesus is Lord” (i.e. not Caesar). That is, in stark distinction to the various practical injunctions of the Eastern Enlightenment traditions (e.g. the Buddha’s 8 fold path), in Christianity there is really only one essential spiritual practice – to put ones faith in Jesus, to believe that Jesus is who they say he is – the Christ, the anointed one of God… It’s really that simple, and as both Jesus and Paul affirm: absolutely everything can be forgiven except for one thing - the sin of unbelief, for in Christ we are “always already” made right with God – by Grace through faith.
To get to the heart of the key distinction here, the basic teaching of the Eastern traditions (Buddhism/Hinduism/Taoism) and New Age philosophy is essentially the same: every human being has deep in him/her self a divine spark which unites them with Spirit but in our daily existence we are unaware of this spark since we are caught up in ignorance, the egoic self-contraction and the inertia of material reality… And so we are told that in order to realize our True Self we have to dis-identify with the lower world of the flesh, purify ourselves with various spiritual practices and advance through higher states/stages from mind to soul to union with Spirit. But this Great Chain philosophy is thoroughly Pagan (e.g. Plotinus) and represents an all too human concern with self-deification, the very thing that Jesus set out to break open and overturn.
For the paradoxical secret at the heart of the Gospel story is that in Christ crucified God reaches down into the heart of flesh and identifies Himself with us when we are at our most broken, when we are utterly lost and powerless. That is, Jesus Christ is not just another Ascended Master that calls to us from the highest realms of consciousness but a “ready-made” God (Boris Groys), one who comes down to our level and dies the death of a vulnerable and suffering creature…
So where Christian faith stands and falls with this experience of “God in the crucified Christ”[1], the scandalous reversal at the heart of Christianity is that the very features which appear to the Pagan, Buddhist and the New Age Gnostic to separate us from God – creaturely suffering, god-forsakenness, vulnerability and death - now turn out to be precisely that which unites us with God[2]…That is, in my weakness and abandonment, when I am vulnerable and powerless - precisely then I am identified with Christ, the God-man, the one who was also abandoned and powerless on the Cross.
So what Buddhists assume to be the ultimate Reality behind the veil of appearances and beyond the limitations of finitude and temporality, is to the Christian the gaping wound in the heart of God’s own self - i.e. the crucified Jesus. That is, in the Christian view, the love of God can only really shine through in an imperfect creature,[3] for just as we love someone because of their lack, their imperfections, their helplessness, far from being the highest in man, the purely spiritual dimension towards which all humans strive, in Christ God shows up as a fragile tortutred body, and as Chesterton writes, here we are approaching "a matter more dark and awful than it is easy to discuss... a matter which the greatest saints and thinkers have justly feared to approach…”
So the message here is that we do not need to surrender control of our lives to the fatal narcissism of spiritual perfectionism. Jesus is ‘Lord’ precisely for those who are little in their own sight, conscious of their brokenness and powerlessness before God, astonished by the power of the Cross to make the impossible possible and who thereby cast themselves on his infinite Mercy...
That is, it is one thing to stand tall against overwhelming forces and come out on top (like a Mel Gibson’s version of Jesus in the passion of the Christ). But it is quite another thing to be beaten senseless, reduced to “crying and sobbing”, turned inside out, reduced from a subject to subjection, where my activity is thrown in reverse into passivity, which is what happens when suffering “attains its purity.” The supreme responsibility of this Second-Tier assumption turns into supreme irresponsibility, into infancy. To undergo the Christian experience is to pray and weep, to return to an infantile state of shaking and sobbing... where we groan for the fulfillment of something, we know not what. To die to self in Christ is to return to this state of extreme irresponsibility – and it is a profoundly Non-dual state for there is no longer anything between us (I) and it (suffering).
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"Become passers-by" (Jesus of Nazareth)
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KENOSOS (self emptying)
Posted January 17th, 2009 by Karen Kasper in response to Christian / Buddhist dialog (Part II)-- Kenosis - self emptying: "In your mind you must be the same as Christ Jesus: His state was divine, yet he did not cling to his equality with God but emptied himself to assume the condition of a slave, and became as men are; and being as all men are, he was humbler yet, even to accepting death, death on a cross. But God raised him high and gave him the name which is aboe all other names so that all beings in the heavens, on earth and in the underworld, should bend the knee at the name of Jesus and that every tongue should acclaim Jesus Christ as Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (Phillipians 2:6-11, Jerusalem Bible, excuse non-inclusive language)
We are part of the ONE Jesus Christ and the above quote is for us also. Buddhist meditation techniques have helped me in this empyting process where from that emptiness I can stand up from the meditation couch and be sent into the world from that deep place.
Karen
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contemplation/action
Posted December 3rd, 2008 by camfree in response to On Christian Love and Buddhist Emptiness...Michael – Great post! As far as I can tell, as one moves forward in their own interior development, they increasingly feel an obligation, as a human being, to pursue freedom and justice on behalf of others, particularly the poor and oppressed. These two impulses - the psycho-spiritual and the social activist are inextricably intertwined.
And yes, meditation can indeed lift the repression barrier that numbs us to pleasure and pain of real life...or it can simply allow one to fully participate in a system that is oppressive or unjust, with a certain detachment and inner peace - while not having to engage in any real social or political change. So I guess it’s not what you do but how and why you do it, and for me contemplation and social action are both 100% essential - anything less than this would not be a balanced or integral approach to being fully human... Although actually living and embodying this is a real challenge to all of us, I’m sure...
And I find your fundamental dilemma really very promising – the question concerning ones egoic hero fantasy of being a savior to Humanity and your a true and divine impulse to help those who suffer is a good one to ask, its like a spontaneously arising ko-an... The fact that you are simply asking this question means – just like your dream – that there is already something fundamentally good about who you are... sp even through the road is not always clear, you can be sure that your on the right track. I hope this helps, Cam
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"Become passers-by" (Jesus of Nazareth)
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What do you mean...
Posted December 7th, 2008 by Michael La Gattuta in response to contemplation/actionWhat do you mean when you say a spontaneously arising Koan? I remember the Koan being a symbol used in Zen, I also think I read something about it in the Atman Project, but Im curious as to what you mean specifically.
Also thanks for the reply, these responses have been very helpful to me and have clarified a few things that I had forgotten.
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Koans...
Posted December 15th, 2008 by camfree in response to What do you mean...Hi Michael,
Sorry for the delayed response but specifically Zen ko-ans are paradoxical riddles used as a skillful means to facilitate Satori or Non-dual awareness (e.g. "If all things return to the One, to what does the one return?") My point was that sometimes the burning existential questions that you mentioned such as "Who am I?", arise spontaneously and involve a similar paradoxical tensions and can set up the "conditions of possibility" for awakening. The point is not to answer the koan/question but to have the question undone whereby one is plunged into consciousness without an object or primordial awareness... Cam
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"Become passers-by" (Jesus of Nazareth)
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Following my passion
Posted December 27th, 2008 by JeanneSimonsI chose my spiritual path by trial and error. It all started after my mother passed away after a lengthy 4+ year period where she suffered badly from emphysema. She lived with me and I took care of her while working as a cytotechnologist (diagnosing cancer in fluid specimens). I worked hard to keep her alive, monitoring her health and communicating with her doctor, cooking healthy meals for her and just plain loving her. After her death her doctor wrote me a note saying he believed I had kept her alive an additional three years longer than he had expected her to survive. It wasn't my fault that she died but I felt that somehow I should have been able to save her, I was only 31 when she passed.
After her death I vowed that I would find a way to provide more help for others I loved who might someday become sick (I also had lost my two beloved grandparents when I was in my early 20's). This vow lead me to search high and low for answers. I began by examining nutrition and over the years my search has moved through any number of topics- holistic medicine, yoga, Yogananda's teachings, shamanism, Buddhism, auras, reiki and many others. I followed my interests and where my excitement lead me I went. I had to drop my reservations at looking into less than conventional methodologies. I decided that I would allow myself to look into any topic because it was unlikely that I would uncover anything new if I looked down conventional paths. My selection of areas to research may seem disjointed but what happened along the way was that I began to see truths across the traditions and from those commonalities I began to develop my own version of spirituality. I began to merge in psychological concepts. I see the original spiritual traditions as ancient psychologies so things merged together beautifully which is why I gravitated instantly to Ken Wilber's models. Actually, Ken's books pushed me to further research because I was unfamiliar with so many of the traditions and psychological theories he mentioned in his books that I had difficulty reading them and I was compelled to find out more about many of them.
I have shied away from traditional western religions because I feel that individuals should seek their own path and most western religions require you to follow a defined doctrine. Most western religions, in my opinion, do not address the needs of people who are moving in an integral direction. I tend to work instead from as pure a form of the underlying spiritual philosophies of the eastern traditions as I can find. It also concerns me that western religious institutions have the hand of man in control and quite frankly I don't trust my spiritual growth to people who may have both power and money as motivating factors in the construction of their paradigm. I would far rather follow my own instincts to determine what I believe to be true. I also have found that, at least for me, spirituality rooted in meditation is the most effective. I truly believe that despite the apparently haphazard path I have taken to develop my spiritual belief system, that my life has unfolded in an intelligent and intentional way that has led me to where I am today. If I had to do it over, I would do it exactly the same way, and besides, it remains a work in progress and that is a lot of fun.
It is very interesting that as I consider my spiritual beliefs it would be difficult to provide a concise description of my beliefs. This does not mean that I cannot express my beliefs but rather that my spiritual beliefs guide every aspect of my life and are the very foundation of who I am. I do not believe I would have this depth of immersion if I had adopted an "off the shelf" spirituality. I am certain that my way is not for everyone, but it has been a highly satisfactory path for me.
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How to find a spiritual path and the difference between East & Christianity
Posted January 7th, 2009 by Karen Kasper in response to [Comment Deleted]I come out of the Roman Catholic tradition and at one time St. John of the Cross and Teresa of Avila meant much. I was in a religious community for 17 years. Then I went into a "Buddhist" phase because I wanted no symbols, wanted emptiness and the psychology which includes non-identification with the small self. Now I am entering into what I think is the last phase, that of a practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, which brings all that I have in the past experienced together and I like the simplicity of it and the transparency and authenticity of those I interact with. I am now 66. Each of us is unique, but in the end we will each stop the search with the confidence that we have all we need right this moment.
The blog on the difference between Buddism and Christianity, while very true in highlighting the differences and the new age tendencies to make everything equal, bothers me in one way: Why have a dualistic interpretation of Christianity? There is always the ONE and the MANY. There is I-THOU and also THAT. Also, the ego as an impersonal vehicle for functioning in this world is distinct from the ego that centers everything on the self, with the pride, avarice, narcissism, etc. that we all have within us. Andrew Cohen is trying to get people to see this post-modern narcissism within us that we are all influenced by and challenges us to choose to transcend it in order to "do no harm" to others.
Karen
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Spiritual Path
Posted February 11th, 2009 by Edward Dunkerly in response to [Comment Deleted]I think it, the spirtual path, is both chosen by me and that it chooses me through my interactions with other sentient beings and events.
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"tough-minded"..
Posted March 21st, 2009 by adam sanders--
i have trouble conceptualizing some religious concepts... and not in just one religion.. i'm working on my concrete, black/white thinking which is crucial to seeing the world in an integrated fashion.. i can conceptualize but only on a superficial level, i have a problem integrating some ideas into my own life/world....
adam
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Did I Choose or??
Posted April 30th, 2009 by Mary Linda Landauerperhaps the path chose me........My path started from within as a small child. I was placed in a children's home for about three months until my Mother could find work and support me and my brother. I was five years old and this experience started my first 2nd person understanding about God. A voice came to me in the dark of the night, where I lay crying and frozen with fear. I was told if I didn't stop crying I would not be allowed to see my brother the next day.This loving voice simply said, "you are not alone I will always be here with you." Something like this, I was only five. What I do remember is that my fear and crying got under control and I was able to see my brother.
What is important is that this place within me and this presence remained. What happened is I tried to find an outside religion to fit into this presence. This failed miserably. Growing up in the deep South I visited all the religions, hoping to find an alignment with my deeper, loving presence, but kept falling short. Nature and the woods became my path for most of my life. What is interesting is this loving presence kept growing and developing as I grew and developed. My search continued to look into all world religions and I read just about every book on Christianity/ Buddhism to the ever now Integral.
Today, for me, the teachings of Jesus come closest to what I experienced that day in my five year old self. And, this presence continues to take those teachings and all the great widom teachers and evolve and expand that experience. My path came out of an abiding love within me. This love has grown from within me to reach out and love others and to love and care about my world. I've known so much pain but within my pain were shadows that carried me into this greater light and presence, always, already in greater capacities as I continued to evolve and grow. The more I opened into forgiveness, kindness, compassion, appreciation, humbleness and finally joy, the more I become one with this presence......So, for me, the path choose me then took me out to participate in life where the path continued to evolve and awaken.
Mary Linda
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How Wonderful!
Posted September 21st, 2009 by John Stadelman in response to Did I Choose or??What a wonderful gift inside you...to begin one's journey of awareness with a sense of a loving Presence. This experience of love seems like it's been a kind of compass within. I have had one or two vivid encounters myself...very hard to put into precise words. Very powerful, direct, and overflowing with care.
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Gifted
Posted November 24th, 2011 by Robert Wagner in response to Did I Choose or??I was five years old and this experience started my first 2nd person understanding about God. A voice came to me in the dark of the night, where I lay crying and frozen with fear. I was told if I didn't stop crying I would not be allowed to see my brother the next day.This loving voice simply said, "you are not alone I will always be here with you."
Wow. You are gifted with a special receptiveness to the Divine.
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The Chosen Path
Posted June 18th, 2009 by RitaHave I chosen one??? I've looked at several traditions, thoug baptised Christian, I find that Budhism, Hinduism, and Rastafari very appealing. If I've chosen One, I would have to say it is Integral. What motivates that choice is actually the lack of tradition and the integration of many. It has helped me to enjoy the perspectives of others from their chosen paths, and been difficult because most individuals that I come into contact with have no concept of Integral, and find my lack of one traditional commitment disconcerting. As a result, I learned that I do not really speak of Integral, but speak to the individual from their traditional viewpoint. My difficulty or reluctance in choosing a single perspective to live by has really been about fellowship in greater numbers. I can relate to individual, but groups become agitated in a way that I find exclusive rather than inclusive. Even in the Integral Universe I have felt shunned or rejected or excluded from fellowship and communion. (I wonder how long it will take for people to read any post I've made today, much less respond in a positive manner, smiles, though perhaps that is in a sense the authenticity of this site!?) The appeal of the various traditions is just that, the variety, and the potential integral diversity! O I JUST LOVE IT! The appeal of no tradition, or rather multiple tradtions is that I've more perspectives to communicate from, and then can communicate to more people, and it is the relationships with people on any path that really gives me cause to celebrate. In fact for me it is all about RELATIONSHIPS!
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no time to write much but...
Posted February 6th, 2010 by Pam Maccabee in response to The Chosen PathGoodness, yes. Relationships. With fellow humans. With all forms of life. With the inanimate as well as animate. For me you have hit it right on my head. I too feel that my "religion" is Integral. I cannot tie my mind to any one particular belief system any more than Creation, in its wisdom or natural process, didn't tie itself to any one organism or structure. Let us contemplate the variety of eyes, of limbs, etc. I savour religious ideas and thank those who developed and communicated them. Harmful ideas are to be understood and their creators understood and somehow embraced, by me. How I do that is the challenge, that is for sure. I am assuming that it is possible. For example, the religion of Rush Limbaugh terrifies me (irrational response, I"m sure) and Rush, himself, horrifies me. However, I believe the only TRULY rational response to Rush is for me to remove all obstacles to loving him. I have NOT chosen to work on him, however,...or any other person who encourages violence by their demeanor and the content of their messages.
And as I read "Shambhala Sun" and "Buddhadharma" and "Tricycle" I see so many contributors speaking of the removal of all obstacles to love and compassion and direct action. The Buddha sounds to me like he was a very loving person. And practical. And Muhammad. And Jesus. Our troubled species tries so hard; there are some major obstacles to be removed with loving care. Just this week I bought THE IDIOT'S GUIDE TO HINDUISM. I've never read one word about Hindusm, just as I was totally unfamiliar with Buddhism until the end of 2005. TO MY astonisment I had numerous powerful surges of emotion while reading just the first 10 pages of this book; I had to find a box of tissues to catch the tears. Obviously, many of the ideas resonated; some I'd "experienced" personally. (I enjoy "feeling" the emotions evoked by ideas...and noticing the stream of ideas associated with the emotions and vice versa).
Anyway, yes, "diversity." I like to think this: Creation/evolution needs us to realize our full individuality so that we each can offer our unique gifts to the evolutionary process, and as human beings we realize our full uniqueness through relationships. Why? In my opinion it is because the focused patient attention that we can choose to give one another activates our brains and therefore our minds. (See Joseph Chilton Pearce, THE BIOLOGY OF TRANSCENDENCE.
Rita, hope you don'tmind that I got so off track. I really enjoyed your post. In fact, I have, no doubt like everyone else, enjoyed everyone's posts. This entire track ought to be compiled and with a useful title made available to all who want it and don't have the time to copy/paste.
AND WHAT ATTRACTED YOU TO HINDUISM AND RASAFARIANISM? If you have time, I'd love to know!
Warmly,
Pam
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My path chose me
Posted July 2nd, 2009 by Jonathan CobbI didn't choose my path so much as my path chose me. At a time when I was undergoing a transition from Orange to Green, I was getting heavily into LSD. During one particularly powerful trip, my whole world shifted as I saw before me a vision of Jesus Christ, and felt his radiant, all-embracing compassion envelop my entire being. I accepted him into my heart, and my life was forever changed.
That was really the beginning of a long spiritual journey for me. Not to say that I was a hard-nosed materialist prior to that -- I had joined the meditation club on campus, and was taking a class on Buddhism -- but overall, I was much more secular in terms of how I lived my life. My Christological vision caused a major change within me that made me want to live my life for God.
I have to say, of all the religious paths I could have followed, I never could have imagined myself being a Christian. And since I was well past Blue/Amber, I needed a fresh take on what Christianity meant to me. For a while I got into Gnosticism, but I felt uncomfortable with its purely ascentionist attitude which shunned all things worldly. I had gotten into Gnosticism only because I was not aware of the mystical tradition within the main current of Christianity, as expemplified by such figures as Meister Eckhart or St. John of the Cross.
In any case, I am in some sense still searching for my path. Even though I know Christianity is my path, I have not really found an Integral way of practicing Christianity. Sitting in a pew every Sunday and listening to some preacher speak does not really satisfy what I'm looking for in a worship service. The one thing I really like about church is the Eucharist. I'm thinking about going to some contemplative prayer meetings, but that would be more of a spiritual practice rather than a worship service. Mostly, I practice my religion in private, praying to God and living my faith in my daily life. I pray that someday I will find the right sangha for me. It's lonely enough being Integral. It's incredibly lonely being and Integral Christian.
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A Very Real Dilemma
Posted September 22nd, 2009 by John Stadelman in response to My path chose meGood luck in your search....I do understand your dilemma about an integral outlook being a rather lonely existence, and I think it is a very real issue for many. I agree that small group/cell meetings are a good way to augment one's typical church experience if that seems possible. I have been fortunate over the years to have had some really good friends with whom one could discuss such matters deeply...I see them rarely if ever nowadays. Still, it's good to know these folks are out there. Given the typical construct of the local parish scene, it's good to also connect to the historical or international nature of the Christian community. As you know, the community is far broader and deeper than the local reality. I think this broader perspective can even help one enjoy/value the quirks of the local scene.
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On Being an Integral Christian
Posted March 4th, 2010 by John Ireland in response to My path chose meI wonder how many there are of us?
And I wonder what all the many different ways of being an integral Christian look like.
After 20 years of living Blue (Evangelical Christian) I've just come through a 10 year Orange/Green phase of exploring the practices of Buddhism, Hinduism/Yoga, Zen, etc. In frustration with a resulting syncretistic "mush" of extreme pluralism/relativism, but not able to reconcile the 100's of problems I have with the theology and practice of much of Christendom, I temporarily considered a blue center of gravity in a genuine consideration of Islam. I think this was in an attempt to address the imbalance highlighted by Andrew Cohen & Ken Wilber in Enlightenment Next: The 3 Faces of God -- the problem of avoiding 2nd Person experience of the Divine; where we are greateful and humble and recognize God as Other, freeing us from our extreme narcisism. I think this is one of the reason I continue to go to (a very Green) emergent church. I value this crucial 2nd person perspective, as well as the LL quadrant.
My post-islam Christianity brought me to Brian D. McLaren and his idea of Generous Orthodoxy: a Missional, Evangelical, Post/Protestant, Liberal and Conservative, Mystical/Poetic, Biblical, Charismatic/Contemplative, Fundamentalist/Calvinist, Anabaptist/Anglican, Methodist, Catholic, Green, Incarnational, Depressed-yet-Hopeful, Emergent, Unfinished CHRISTIAN. But I now see that my appreciation of all these various "strengths" of Christianity was really just my transformation towards an Integral view where I could integrate multiple perspectives and practices and not have to choose in a conformist way (ie., Christianity OR Buddhism, Tradional Christianity OR New Agey Christianity) nor "settle" for mere pluralism. What a relief to discover that Integral Theory provides a 3rd Way!
But like you, I have yet to find an integral way of practicing Christianity. Ken Wilber's Integral Spirituality hints at it, but doesn't give much. I am hopeful and searching but still feeling quite isolated. It's too easy to spend all one's energy in the UL quadrant. I hope further connections and dialogue spring from this...
John
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A Spiritual Journey by Ram Dass
Posted August 4th, 2009 by Mariana BozesanBy trial and error and by listening to your own heart! Ram Dass expressed my own experience in the best possible way in his audio program (CD/tapes) A Spiritual Journey.
Namaste!
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A Spiritual Journey by Ram Dass
Posted August 4th, 2009 by Mariana BozesanBy trial and error and by listening to your own heart! Ram Dass expressed my own experience in the best possible way in his audio program (CD/tapes) A Spiritual Journey.
Namaste!
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A Spiritual Journey by Ram Dass
Posted August 4th, 2009 by Mariana BozesanBy trial and error and by listening to your own heart! Ram Dass expressed my own experience in the best possible way in his audio program (CD/tapes) A Spiritual Journey.
Namaste!
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A Spiritual Journey by Ram Dass
Posted August 4th, 2009 by Mariana BozesanBy trial and error and by listening to your own heart! Ram Dass expressed my own experience in the best possible way in his audio program (CD/tapes) A Spiritual Journey.
Namaste!
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Diversity Within Diversity
Posted September 21st, 2009 by John StadelmanI was raised Roman Catholic and grew up in the era following Vatican II. While I always felt a certain relationship with the Divine, I made a kind of conscious decision to follow my intuitions during the Jesus Movement of the early 70s. Now this didn't exactly jive fully with my Catholic experience, but then again it did not contradict it either. During college I ran into several Baptist and Methodist theologians who, to my shock, thought very highly of Catholic theology and spirituality, so rather than discount my childhood religion, I felt free to embrace it more fully.
I began a career in boadcasting, producing documentaries. Over the years I was put in situations in which I was able to investigate many personal stories, expressions, and experiences of faith. These left a definite, vivid imprint. Over time, I also had occasion to process many diverse facets of my own Roman Catholicism....the Gospels, yes, but also Vatican II, the early Church Fathers, the Desert Fathers, the Franciscan renewal, Celtic Monasticism...all the while dealing with these other very personal stories. It all became like a connect-the-dots-picture. The dots, these very credible faith-expressions, were all interconnecting, and a certain image was emerging.
I should say that my interest in all this study....and this has been going on for 38 years...was not so much about history per se, but in the personal journey and dynamics of real-life, lived faith....the journey...and how that has happened in various times and places. Critical history studies helped seperate fact from fiction...generally the fact was more meaningful than the fiction, although something can be learned even there. The thing is....although there is much to lament about what went wrong with Catholicism...there were many who got it right. Some even got it very right.
So I guess the lesson is that an integral approach helped even within my own chosen path. Given the span of human history and experience, integration makes a great deal of sense. My own path has allowed me to crack open much that was previously invisible to me in my own tradition. I also found that other awarenesses...such as those of Native American or Celtic spirituality, at one time found a natural home in my faith tradition....even though they may not be seen very clearly in the present time, at one time they were there.
Living with this input remains interesting...if anything it is an invitation to my own life of prayer and action in this world, my own response to the Divine. The abundance of input might leave one with some answers, but even more it leaves one to encounter a Mystery that is beyond mere intellect. If study shows anything, it shows that this Reality is meant to be experienced oneself.
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Re:How do you choose a spiritual path?
Posted November 10th, 2009 by vance victorSpirituality, in a wide variety of cultural and religious concepts, is often seen as a spiritual path, along which one advances to achieve a given objective, such as a higher state of awareness,642-661 outreach wisdom or communion with God or with creation. Plato's Allegory of the Cave, which appears in book VII of The Republic, is a description of such a journey, as are the writings of Teresa of Avila. The spiritual journey is a path that has a dimension primarily subjective and individual. For a spiritual path may be considered a path of short duration, 117-101 directed at a specific target, or a lifetime. Every event of life is part of this journey, but in particular one can introduce some significant moments or milestones, such as the practice of various spiritual disciplines (including meditation, prayer, fasting), the comparison with a person believed with deep spiritual experience (called a teacher,70-444 assistant or spiritual preceptor, guru or otherwise, depending on the cultural context), the personal approach to sacred texts, etc.
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Show me your unoriginal face.
Posted January 3rd, 2010 by Billy GuilfoyleIt would seem that the general sameness of reality is what we can call that which connects us. Yet the outstretch of the tree branches of the tree are shaped quite differently. And this is how I understand the integral perspective. To say that pre-rational is an opposite of post-rational is to stick another duality onto a unifying theory. In general, the two perspectives are perspectives. So their sameness has been established. I think this ability to look at the sameness and the differences with our wisdom and discriminate wisely with care for all who live in the world, this is a great place to start. Experience alone can bring one to these true understandings. These understandings do not require belief in order to remain common sense.
It is very challenging to give up the Santa. And by "the Santa" I mean magic/mythic Jesus. Jesus was a dude. A regular homie. And one who had transcended, I would assume, the the attachment to words and names, so obviously wouldn't condemn you to Hell for distinguishing between the Santa and the regular Joe Jesus. How can anyone relate to an alien? Because Jesus' Dad is like the biggest alien of them all, living nowhere near this planet, yet always able to fuck with it.
I relate to a Jesus as the hero of the mythological story, beginning of course with our character starting off without his biological father. How many of us men in this generation have felt that with our own fathers, even if they did live in the same house? And we see this other guy the church is all about called Jesus, and he is supposed to be the best. And he doesn't have his real father around. And his circumstances make him very alone.
Sometimes I think that stories can actually shape an entire culture. The majority of our country believes, and has for generations, that the end of the world is going to come any minute. And it was only in the last century that such possibilities fell within the hands of our species. And I know this is off topic, but perhaps it is important to explore the grand synchronicity or even awesome coincidence of the new idea of enlightenment coming full-force into the western world like mushroom clouds of love in response to this new species suicidal ability. Like Jung and Freud just so happening to be within driving distances of each other in Europe and both acting as a masculine and feminine balancing ball of enlightenment in the fields of psychology for the modern world. There is balance in the force.
The timing of the Chinese invasion and the holocaust of around 1 million Tibetan people within the last 50 or so years, seemed to coincide with a period when an entire nation (the United States) was probably projecting a lot of guilt in the form of fear onto the outer world of other nations after having dropped two nuclear bombs on two largely populated civilian cities in Japan. This would definitely help us look at the fear and backyard bomb shelter building going on in those days, but the point is that with this kind of fear is also a prayer, or rather a cry out for salvation, to hijack a term and use it in a way that doesn't require God to kill any of his kids. So what happens? For the first time since the beginning of Tibetan culture (about 1500 years), a culture filled with those who focused almost entirely on the human mind and consciousness penetratingly and with very little distraction from the world, massive amounts of Tibetans began migrating and escaping to other countries, bringing the Dharma into the world with a bang. If zen can be considered unassuming, we can call Tibetan Buddhism the dancing feminine who pirouettes through the sand garden. Watching these events unfold has been a gift that no cable television set could ever offer, and I do feel the pain of all who have suffered. But I think we can see that there are also positive things that have come out of the ashes. This has been the case with much of my own learning.
The holocaust during World War II was one of my greatest teachers. And I think all the chaos and mass murdering the United States did by nuking two civilian cities, and the Germans, Italians, and Russians did for that stretch of madness, was a big eye opener for the open-hearted youth coming into the world around those times. It wasn't more than twenty years later that the equal rights movements entered into full swing. We are lucky to have the concept and reality of enlightenment enter into the vernacular to such a degree that it has. And there are millions and millions of Americans who are very grateful that the Dharma has come to the west.
It seems that we get stuck, see, because I was stuck when I was six and they said I would burn if I didn't believe everything they said. And so I held onto that stage of development, which was pre-rational, because to do otherwise meant punishment for eternity and being alone forever as well. We can see the challenge we are facing in communicating these ideas with people who are still clinging tight to this very immature stage of psychological function. We really do care about them. And so how do we develop a language that takes all of these factors in our understanding of this particular predicament and apply them toward creating a way of communicating that doesn't raise any red-flags. That sounds very important right now. I'm really of that belief at this point.
My personal practice is an integral practice of twice daily zazen (just sitting, Soto), yoga every other day, running 8 to 10 miles every other day or so. eating predominantly vegetarian organic (though today I had a burger for the first time in half a year), and doing shadow work as much as my ego will allow at this point. The resistance and contraction has been a bitch lately. I can see why 5 years of this would massively help with transformation. I also listen to and watch many hours of video and audio of the integral peeps (and you know who you are) which keeps me feeling like I'm part of a Sangha.
Which brings me to my final point on this answer to what has been the path and the practice. I don't feel attracted in the least to the boring and disengaged life of a monk in a monastery. This doesn't appeal to me. And I have been planning for years to join one, never really admitting to myself how boring the whole thing looked. Our culture isn't attracted to the strictly planned day. I see why this may be good for some. But I feel that my sangha is here, and I know that there are very few places to get this kind of conversation on the kind of ball that it is here within the integral community. If there were a place for us to come together for this type of learning and communing, and this as a similar substitute for a monastery, I'd be down to make the leap. But we can't do that because then Integral has the chance of being publicly perceived as a cult, which would suck ass. So for now, I hang with the integral learning and listening and the trees in the woods, that's my sangha.
I've had interesting encounters with teachers, and I know that the ego is a bitch to transcend because it's so fucking out of control. And they say it's a closed loop and cannot spot itself. It's hard to see. I've had my ego become pretty enormous and then fall right onto my body and make me flat like a pancake. This has been a great spiritual practice. I advise you to go and get the jobs that get you laid the most, like Tom Cruise Cocktail style bar tending. This will give you the greatest sense of being great in the eyes of others your ego could ever ask for. And eventually it will all fall apart. I mean, you're working with booze, man! So your ego becomes your best teacher. Over time you decide not to take things to such extremes, because the lesson has always been pain. I suppose that this might be a place that allows the ego to be at a more manageable and healthier size, thus making it easier to transcend. Now for the whole transcending part. Counting breaths. Meditation's a bitch lately. I'm witnessing the feeling of resistance at focusing awareness in the moment to moment present. I know that I may be avoiding the present for some reason. And it's most likely because of the ego's fear of its own death. Wow! Don't know.
So that's it, and it's been nice sharing.
Billy Guilfoyle
Billy Guilfoyle, Integral Mind
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YOURS WAS THE LAST...
Posted February 6th, 2010 by Pam Maccabee in response to Show me your unoriginal face.Billy, and I read every word you wrote till I finished at 2:55 a.m. on Saturday. Glad you shared! I was especially interested in why you might be avoiding present moment awareness. Always logical reasons, of course!
What a valuable journey we've offered one another. I'm surely appreciative. My mind is fat and full as I head for bed. To think that Evolution or Creation or God designed these beings that like to think about such things as we've been thinking about. Lucky us! Here at IL we get to think together. My mind got stretched nearly out of recognizable-by-me shape a couple of times.
LOVE AND PEACE
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Spiritually homeless, advice welcomed.
Posted July 13th, 2010 by david oconnorI feel the pull to find a particular path, I believe I would enjoy/benefit from its security and I think Integral suggests strongly that I should 'HAVE TO' find one, in order to deepen spiritually.
I have been with several gurus/teachers, and they have touched me very deeply. I have been envious and respectful on more then a few occassions of those who can go so totally the bakti(surrendered) path with a guru, but alas it doesnt seem my destiny.
I have tried eastern techniques and experienced some wonderful moments but nothing that satisfies 'sustainably'. I have looked to the western christian way and although open and appreciative of its wisdoms, I seem to lack the jump of 'faith' required to follow the christ figure.
I am aware ofcourse of many non-traditional paths and living in Byron Bay Australia I have tasted many, but nothing has chosen me( nor have known the clarity to choose one)
I have loved finding integral and to be honest I held high hopes early on, that this might be a path for me at last. But understand now, as Ken says 'Integral is the exterior map of the path(s), not itself an interior path. To know that you need to find a practice(path) and do it - no way round it'.
My deepest spiritual experience (i mention because maybe it offers an insight into what my path/practice might be) came from sitting alone in a busy restruant in south india. I had just finished recieving 7 days of painful massages, for an even more painful back injury and was getting over a heartbreak. Had suffered alot. I was an alien in this non-tourist town. As I sat there alone I was spontanously drawn into a deep, soft, and open contemplation upon two subjects. One being 'LOVE', What is it? the other being 'THIS WORLD'. As I did this, two things happened that seem to have sent me into satori.
Firstly I was simply watching a very loving and kind indian middle class family arrive for lunch. What struck me was, that this beautifully dressed(western style), family seemed like the most 'perfect ideal' western 'nuclear family' id ever seen and here I was in a very non-tourist Indian town. The LOVING APPRECIATION and IRONY of viewing this somehow touched me deeply.
Secondly just then a waiter stopped to ask me sweetly, what I wanted order. This 'startled' me as it was completely unexpected, as for the previous 7 days I had the hardest time to even get the waiters attention at all, as they wissed by the tables. Literally id been having to grab one and hold him there to give the order. So this was a 'shock', like a sweet zen stick.
The satori seemed to happen just then. It was, as satories are, full of loving peace and connection with all that is. A deep sense of home, the ordinary became miraculous, the miraculous became ordinary ....etc. As it came without warning, it left without warning. As they do!
So is some christian-contemplative/zen combination the path for me???????? Perhaps Mondo-Zen?
To answer the question why dont I have a path? Clearly I dont know, but some wild stabs in the dark are.
- To much educated for my own good, about the pitfuls of any particular path. lacking the required innocense for the neccessary leap of faith.
- Lack a sufficient groundedness on lower levels to sustain a higher level path.
- Weak willed, to lazy perhaps due to some unknown, unresolved personal trust/faith issues
- Perhaps ken is wrong and I dont need a particular path.
- Path it is just around the corner, a new path still emerging.
Your reflection or advice is welcomed.
Loving regards David
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you're first sentence :
Posted November 2nd, 2010 by Mark Rondot in response to Spiritually homeless, advice welcomed.Hey David,
I was drawn into reading your post as you made it clear you were openly looking for advice. Not that I believe I am particularly wise or anything, I thought I'd have a read. Well I'll share - at least - my reaction to what you wrote and what I believe, while keeping the advice as far away as I can, as I believe it to be patronising.
And something strong struck me as soon as I read your first sentence :
I feel the pull to find a particular path, I believe I would enjoy/benefit from its security and I think Integral suggests strongly that I should 'HAVE TO' find one, in order to deepen spiritually.
I frowned as I read those words, because (to me) a spiritual path is not something that is chosen according to what enjoyment or benefits you could get from it. It's not something that you pick while waying out pros and cons. It can't be something you choose in the same way that you would choose an airline company...
It's not a case of "oh, my spiritually is a little shallow at the moment, I should invest a bit of time in a faith".
I'm sorry if this may sound like I'm mocking, I'm not, honestly.
I may be narrow minded in this respect, but when I'm thinking about this, there is no doubt as to why I am "walking on this path"... It is in an attempt to better understand the world, from a subjective point of view and experience, to the broadest possible "thing" my mind can imagine, and pull it all together in a way that makes sense.
If I were looking for security or benefits, I'd work hard in a high paying job, what I mean is; security/benefits and a good job are on the same level.
Now I may have totally wrongly interpreted what you wrote, but just in case I didn't, I felt like you might benefit from my point of view, and if not at least from the fact that someone cared enough to spend some time on the question and reply :)
But if I were to allow myself to give you what I believe is good advice, I would start by asking you :
- why are you looking for "a spiritual path"?
- what is it that you are looking for?
By the way, I'd be happy to continue this conversation in private (or in public) if you wish :)
Cheers,
Mark.
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Enjoy existence. It needs practice.
Posted May 31st, 2011 by luis costa in response to Spiritually homeless, advice welcomed.Theory is theory and practice is, well, practice. For almost 40 of my 55 years, my ideology, philosophy, belief sistem, world vision, opinion, circunstance and every other body-mind related thing, interpretations included, have been changing... But the practice didn't. It can't. It's the simple unchangeable connection with my unchangeable essence. Since you've asked, have a look at wopg.org my friend. love
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I don't know! I'm not kidding.
Posted August 19th, 2010 by Jeremy RichardsonHave I chosen one?
Yes and now. I meant to say yes and no, but there it is. True story. I could say the path choose me, but even I can see through that. I could say it is not quite the truth to deny it and it is not quite a lie to affirm it. I think Rumi said that. And he was right.
What path did you choose?
This one. The one where I am 33 years old living my dreams. Yes, I know. If it is true that not to select a path is to select a path, then that one, no? I would say paths. Part of my challenge was to simply understand there were many paths. And then to realize that some paths are more or less suited based upon where I want to go.
What factors motivated you to choose that tradition over others?
I like to think the small amount of Cherokee blood that runs through my veins does something. I have always felt, for a time secret, then guilty, then angry, then confused, then understanding, an affinity with the idea of communicating with the spirits in things, especially animals. Now: my holy communion is my every meal. I feel silly folding my hands and talking with my eyes closed (unless I'm on stage with a guitar) it is that the act of eating is infused with the gratitude. I simply choose those traditional aspects in harmony with me, of the culture, and use them. Sigh, I am actually fairly within the limits of normal, if there is such a thing.
How has choosing one tradition helped you or been difficult for you?
I appreciate the greater simplicity. "Before enlightenment... after enlightenment" and all that jazz. I still have to pay rent and some bills. I'm still trying to learn the whole right-lively-hood business, and I am making progress. And, there's a reason for the things that I have owned. I don't have anything I don't want. That may not seem like much.
It has been my experience that it is painful when special relationships are seen for what they are and sometimes one perceives certain channels have been closed and are missed with visceral longing. EVERYTHING is cured by time. It has also been my experience that afterwards, you and the other are always good.
What advice can you offer others in making this decision?
Never take advice!
Are you having difficulty or reluctance in choosing a path?
Sometimes. Not NOW. Not really.
What do you think is keeping you from choosing?
What?
What appeals to you about the various traditions?
I genuinely like being with people (most people). I like being with other people. That's what I like and is in common with all the traditions. I also like to exert influence over my environment. I like the way everyone can play an instrumental in church or the campfire. The food. The mythology. The stars. Family, friends.
What appeals to you about no tradition?
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personal answer :p
Posted November 2nd, 2010 by Mark RondotHave you chosen one?
Nope !
What path did you choose?
I didn't ...
What factors motivated you to choose that tradition over others?
Well rather than reply kind of obviously like above, I would say what factors motivated me to not choose any tradition at all :
Reasoning and contradictions, but those are just small factors, because in the end, almost any kind of faith could be seen as reasonable from at least one perspective, and contradictions overcome in one way or another...
However, the most important factor that motivated me to not choose a tradition was to see how people applied that tradition in their daily life.
How has choosing one tradition helped you or been difficult for you?
It's not since I haven't chosen one !
What advice can you offer others in making this decision?
I know it sounds cliché, but maybe there is some truth in all those movies, you know, "listen to your heart" "young padawan, the force is in you". That kind of thing, at the end of the day, I do believe that is true.
Are you having difficulty or reluctance in choosing a path?
Nope, I'm not even trying to.
What do you think is keeping you from choosing?
Maybe the fear of making "the wrong choice". Maybe not... Maybe rather, that I do not relate to any of the traditions that I know of.
Although there are many "things" or "points" that sort of make sense, none of them (that I know of) feels entirely "trustworth" in that in "reality", in "actions", the believers, including the teachers, actually don't seem to apply what they say they believe in.
Ironically, those that do seem like they have completely lost touch with reality.
What appeals to you about the various traditions?
What appeals most to me is that I feel or think there may be bits of pieces that are more or less true, that I can sort of use to guide me on my own path.
What appeals to you about no tradition?
Less brainwashing, less manipulation, less religious wars, critical thinking, expression, freedom, moral aspirations that (ironically) seem to be more ethical, forcing people - whether they like it or not - to think and believe for themselves rather than gobble up some story about the world and what lies beyond or before, then tuck it away in a corner to be used once a week or when things get tough. Even if they do follow it constantly, just like when you love someone or something, it blinds you.
But I still haven't answered your question, which was the reason I wanted to reply :)
How do you choose a spiritual path?
I don't. I don't "decide"...
I listen to my heart, it's not easy, but if I really, truly care, I listen to myself, I listen to what I feel. I spend time thinking about it, I spend time making an effort (not a difficult one, not an unatural one) trying to figure it out. I listen to others, I read about others, what they think, what they sing, what they create, what they feel, I observe others, I talk to others.
I express myself, I communicate.
I think about it a lot, but in the end, I listen to my heart and let it guide me.
In fact, my answer would not be "I don't choose a path, I listen to my heart", it would be "I don't choose a path, I follow my heart".
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The flow
Posted November 11th, 2011 by Bill KilburgYes , and its an ongoing choice.
The path I chose is knowing this is it, and there is nothing to get.
The motivating factor was learning how to listen and speak distinct from how I used to listen and speak.
Choosing being source of experience has cut down on putting miles on my car .
My advice is ,,,, Be still ,,do nothing ,,then choose knowing being source of whatever you experience,,,be it happy or sad. ,,Know there is nothing wrong in the Now until you think about it.
What is so appealing is that life flows when I am not here.
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Choosing the right path
Posted November 30th, 2011 by Kurt JohnsonChoosing the right path is something that would bring you better way of living, by living with no one getting hurt from your decisions, resolutions and presumptions.
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