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3 out of 7 members found this useful.

Not useful to those new to integral

Posted November 18th, 2008 by Alan Sato
In Reference to:
The Markers of Second-Tier Consciousness

This video is  over 10 minutes long and maybe only 6 minutes actually talk about 2nd tier markers.

Also, you have to know about the levels categroies or IOS used here and for Spiral Dynamics.

It will pass completely over the heads who don't know the IOS.

If there is a simple, textbook presentation of the components of AQAL (JUST TEXT, no video or audio), it should be the biggest icon on the site!  I have been looking and looking..... Just a few pages on the quadrants, a few pages on levels of development, a few pages on states and stages, a few pages on types that I can print out or use to explain this to people I talk to.  And they have to be sufficiently detailed to be useful in practical application.  For example, all known levels need to be explained in the levels presentation.  And I'd like to see a few pages on 4th, 5th, 6th person perspectives.

I say chuck all the old seminar dialogs and create new ones, similar to the new ones that introduce integral created by Clint Fuhs.  And ADD TEXT ONLY, stand-alone presentations of all the facets of AQAL.

It's Integral Naked all over again.  You have to watch/listen to a hundred videos/dialogs until you get it.  It's inefficient.  It's stupid.  I can't see the focus here at all.  It's a mess that needs to be cleaned up.  There should be a CLEAR division between NEW, efficient Textbook-style presentations designed to teach, and OLD, feel-good videos (which I love, but will be a waste of time for the very new).  The old videos should be in a "related" category, not shoulder to shoulder with the new stuff.  Even if there's a lot of holes to fill in, it will reduce confusion and inefficiency.  There should be a permanent Section at the TOP of the site for these Textbook presentations!!!!!   I clicked on the Learn tab and got this!  Rubbish!  It's good, but inappropriate, or an unskillful way to develop a person's knowledge.

And, if you insist on doing it this way, at least make a GLOSSARY that has a BIG icon and is ACCESSIBLE from ALL pages in this site!!!!!  And ALL the terms Salzman used had better be there!!!  A REALLY BIG icon!

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1 out of 1 members found this useful.

an overview

Posted November 19th, 2008 by Charles Bowling

 

Hi Alan,
I am very much in favor of a clearer definition of Second-Tier and the issues that surround it. But perhaps it's worth pointing out that Second-Tier and this site are both works in progress.
Rather than address your concerns directly, valid though they may be, allow me to step back a little and perhaps put the whole notion of criticism into some sort of perspective. It's long been my view that any attempt to explain our world (and this includes Second-Tier) that does not recognize and employ the play of the opposites does not deserve serious consideration.
What then might be the opposite of criticism? Allow me to suggest that it is sympathy. And furthermore that it's possible to draw a gradient line from one pole called criticism to an opposite pole called sympathy, and from an integral perspective would allow for many gradations in between; but would tend not to favor one at the exclusion of the other.
And when i consider sympathy and criticism as candidates for a true syzygy (like birth and death for example) a common parallel appears. It's an old and thorny one; the apparent dichotomy between mind and heart. When in critical mode the mind risks taking sway over the heart; and conversely when in sympathetic mode the heart risks dulling the cutting edge of the discriminating mind.
But then is this not exactly the sort of thing that Second-Tier is equipped to deal with?
When i step back even farther and try to understand a deeper appreciation of how the opposites manifest optimally, i'm struck by the image of one hand washing another.
Warmly,
Charles
41N58'02" 88W18'28"
 
 
 

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3 out of 3 members found this useful.

Seek and Ye Shall Find

Posted November 20th, 2008 by Corey deVos

I'm sorry you did not enjoy this particular video.  But there are plenty of others surrounding it in the Learn channel that should be closer to what you are looking for.  A few recommendations below.

If there is a simple, textbook presentation of the components of AQAL (JUST TEXT, no video or audio)....

Here ya go:

An Introduction to the Integral Operating System

I say chuck all the old seminar dialogs and create new ones....

Not going to happen, i'm afraid.  We are certainly focusing upon developing new offerings, such as the introductory presentations by Clint that you've already mentioned, as well as the four Integral Politics presentations, the Integral Economics presentation, and the Embodying Passion presentation.  But developing this new content does not mean we should simply jettison our previous archive, as these audio dialogues and video recordings are still tremendously beneficial to the Integral community, and continue to be the core offerings of Integral Life and Integral Naked.  This will certainly shift in the future, but i personally think that it is of vital importance that we carefully archive the entire history of Integral Institute/Integral Naked offerings, while doing our best to make them "come alive" for new members and old members alike.

I do agree, however, that the Overview section in the Learn channel should remain as basic as possible, so i moved the Markers of 2nd Tier video to the "Deep End" section.  I wouldn't necessarily consider it a "deep end" piece, but that is probably the best fit for now.

And, if you insist on doing it this way, at least make a GLOSSARY that has a BIG icon and is ACCESSIBLE from ALL pages in this site!!!!!

Well, i suppose we are halfway there.  The glossary lives here.  And i made it more prominent in the Overview section.

It's inefficient.  It's stupid.  I can't see the focus here at all.  It's a mess that needs to be cleaned up....

Again, i do appreciate the suggestions, as well as the challenges.  But it might be helpful to make suggestions like these with a fairly less abrasive tone.  We are all doing the best we can, and this is very much a work in progress, and input such as this helps a great deal--but when i hear it put forward with a negative or accusatory tone, my first reaction is to be just as dismissive as i initially interpret the feedback to be.  My personal reaction is my own responsibility, of course, and not yours--but surely you can see how we can all help each other out in this regard.  Let's not be afraid of criticism, for sure, but let's maybe try to anchor our criticism within the heart of compassion.

And it might be helpful to remember that we are working very hard to accommodate several different shades within the Integral community--integral newbies, long-time hardcore students and practitioners, and all those in between who are looking for real-life ways to apply Integral theory to the world around them.  Creating content for this wide range of people is quite a challenge, but is a challenge that i think we are truly beginning to live up to.

--

Corey W deVos
(dj rekluse)

Managing Editor, Integral Naked
Writer, Content Producer, and Audio Manager, Integral Life
Managing Editor, KenWilber.com

"Include the Values, Negate the View!"

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SORRY YOU WERE SO FRUSTRATED

Posted November 28th, 2009 by Pam Maccabee

Alan, hi, isn't it amazing that I can read your post a little over a year after you wrote it...and respond because I find interesting now what you found interesting so long ago.  (Oh, what's a year? And Time...what is time in today's world, anyway.)  Anyway, hope things have improved for you.  I'm new here, never was on Integral Naked, so everything here is new to me.  So, just wanted to say that I hope your integral journey here or elsewhere is proceeding as you need it to proceed.  Feel free to recommend videos or books.   Feel free never to respond!!!

Warmly,

Pam