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Global Warming Skeptics with Green Centers of Gravity

The Green stage of development and its association to green environmentalism and left-wing politics has become so profoundly ingrained and mutually reinforced that I think it may be wise to step back and really examine the validity of this assumption or claim.  Is it always the case that a person whose center of gravity is Green will always gravitate toward the left or agree with the scientific consensus on global climate change?  The more I study the topic, the more I encounter people who do not fit this particular stereotype: Green Republicans, for example.  Or Green global warming skeptics and deniers.  And in truth, most Greens seem no different from Orange centers-of-gravity in terms of their consumerism and orientation on material acquisition.  Not to say that it is bad to want to acheive material success but it seems to me that Greens differ very little from Orange in terms of these aspects of the mental-rational structure, which is object-oriented and externally-related, after all.  Of course, there are the more obvious or rather subtle differences in that Green is the stage at which one becomes multiperspectival, more worldcentric in terms of equal rights for all people, and ecologically aware.  However, I am no longer convinced that simply because one is Green, that one is automatically an environmentalist or a bleeding-heart liberal. 

If Green is truly a stage or structure that is ontologically real and universally experienced at some point along the development of consciousness, then it stands to reason that not all people at this particular stage would necessarily fit the common cultural stereotypes or notions of what it means to be "Green."  Republicanism and environmentalism, after all, are neither universally experienced nor exclusive to a particular stage of development but are cultural artifacts more than anything else.  Thus, while Republicanism and environmentalism are social movements or social constructs, the stages themselves are empirically or intersubjectively verifiable and real.

With that in mind, I would like to explore a curious form of anti-environmentalism or global warming skepticism: the Green form.  But before we can define the Green aspects of this anti-environmentalism, it is helpful to differentiate the characteristics of Green global warming skepticism from other stage-structural forms of global warming skepticism.

People are generally opposed to the scientific consensus on climate change for various reasons.  However, generally speaking, the reasons for taking on a contrarian position vary widely depending on the stage or structure.

Magenta:

A person at magenta is either an infant or is struggling for physical survival.  In the former case, the pre-person would not be self-aware enough to take on a position.  In the latter case, the person, if adult, may be starving, in a war-torn zone, homeless, abused, physically ill, or is otherwise simply struggling to survive.  I have been thrust back at this stage a few times in my early 20s and know that when I've regressed to this particular level, environmental concerns are the least of my concerns; I am merely struggling for physical survival and will do whatever it takes to stay alive.  Even kill the environment, if I must, for self-survival.  In some sense, many people throughout the world are faced with this very situation.  I think that in truth, if the saying, "Save the planet, go kill yourself" were really an option for me, however--and if I knew that my sacrifice would really make a difference in future generations of humans on the planet (especially my son), I would do it in a heartbeat.

Red:

I don't know.  I have never encountered a Red center-of-gravity who is self- or other-aware enough to take on any position, whether for or against.  But I will venture a guess to say that people at Red centers-of-gravity do not reflect on the world around them enough to have an opinion due to a lack of development and egocentric and narcissistic orientations.  This would be primarily the category of children.  I certainly wasn't ecologically-aware or concerned as a child.

Amber/Blue:

This would be the first stage at which one is capable of taking on a stance of any kind on such an issue.  It will not be an individual stance based on personal reflection of the world around them, but will instead be an ethnocentric stance in strict conformity with whatever stance other people in one's mythic membership defines as truth.  70% of the world is at this stage which is why I feel strongly that mitigating climate change will not occur until ecology can be brought in the heart of various theologies.  This is the only way to persuade Southern Baptists in South Georgia, for example.  And this is where much of the attention and focus should be. 

In the United States, it means bringing the ecological movement of stewardship to the level of evangelical.  Interestingly, an evangelical ecological movement emerged a few years ago (around 2005) based around stewardship but as I understand now, there is an oppositional evangelical movement that is offering a message of stewardship but one that is opposed to the scientific consensus or to environmental policies.  But generally speaking, a global warming skeptic at amber is not a true "skeptic" in the scientific sense because a healthy dose of rationalism is required for skepticism.  It will therefore be not global warming skepticism but global warming denialism and absolutist instead, opposing the scientific consensus because he or she opposes science, period.  Not because s/he understands science--but purely because his/her momma, daddy, kinfolks, and Bible told them so; thus perceiving the whole issue negatively as a threat to their personal salvation and to their ethnocentric and mythical worldview.  Thus, it does little good to try to convince someone at amber of the truth of climate change based on ice core samples dating back to 800,000 years.  Especially when the earth is only 6,000 years old and created in one day by God.  Approaching ecology on this level must be oriented on religion and moral obligation rather around science.  In the evangelical Christian standpoint, it must be based around the Christian concept of stewardship.


Orange:

This is the first worldcentric stage of true I-awareness and ego-formation.  It is thus the first stage at which a person can truly think as an individual ego-consciousness.  And it is really the first stage when the science behind climate change will be taken into perspective.  It will be in third-person singular so more absolutist and less global or systemic than the more multiperspectival and relativistic green.  And because orange is the first phase of Gebser's mental-rational structure, it will also be object-oriented, goal-oriented, success-oriented, I-oriented, and more materialistic and objective than mythical amber. 

A global warming skeptic at this stage will therefore be opposed because his or her individualism and lack of multiple perspectives prevents a grasp of LR implications of climate change.  Because of this general lack of LR, systemic or global implications of climate change, material success, self, self-image, and object-orientation will predominate and will dispose him or her toward opposing any and all regulation policies limiting his or her material growth, freedom, and personal success, but may not necessarily be opposed to the science unless he or as developed some sort of specialization or expertise. 

Scientists stuck at orange will tend to be overfocused and overspecialized in their particular field of inquiry to be cognizant of the multiple interconnections and dimensions affecting climate change issues. Climate change issues at orange must therefore address personal success and individual freedom while challenging individuals to broaden their horizons by studying these issues rationally from a climate science standpoint rather than from strictly (x) standpoint (whereby "x" = area of interest or pet concern, be it economics, politics, religion, biology, history, Fox News Network, Wall Street Journal, and so on).  Because while all of these "x" areas may offer some insight into climate change, they will also only address a particular aspect of it.  They also have a tendency to orient the individual toward ideological or political concerns of climate change having little to do with the reality of it, while giving them a false sense of authority or knowledge on the issues. 

The reason I think that focusing more on the science aspect of climate change is better at Orange is because weighing the scientific evidence is absolutely critical before one can truly make a value judgment on it based on political ideology.  Especially if one's politics is already skewed toward the free-market capitalism of the right.  Without the science portion, one's perspective on climate change will most assuredly be skewed toward the libertarian or free-market version of "climate change" without knowing its full implications in the scientific sense.  Thus fall victim to such pseudo-scientific claims made in the Senate Minority Report on climate change without being aware.
 
Green:

I'm not suggesting that Brian is "Green," but many things he says reminds me of Green: 

I do not like the use of the word conspiracy. Since so many have different ideas about it. Major events in history have been shown to be REAL conspiracies. History is filled with them. Please suspend judgement and ask me for my perspective. I am trying to have a dialog on the topic, And feel no need to figure you out so I do not have to look at what yor saying.I have pointed out in my posts the need to understand the elite to understand this topic. How many do know about the elite? So far no one has expressed anything about it on this post. So I am pointing to info on the elite. I have seen the term Elite used alot in Integral. Like in this audio with Paul Ray on cultural creatives done with Jim Garrison.

I suspect that there are some Green shadows lurking that some people need to try own, rather than trying to project it onto others and dissociate from Green.   And yes, there is a Green form of global warming skepticism.  Not all Greens are favorably disposed towards the idea of environmentalism.   In fact, many who are Green may even be anti-environmental but will insist that they are "environmentalists, but not global warming alarmists."  Much like insisting that "I'm spiritual, but not religious."  Which I am as well but it takes a green consciousness to really recognize such a thing in the first place..  The only thing about a Green saying such a thing is that they will tend to experiment with many different forms of spirituality or fall sway to any form of conspiracy theories in search of higher self while not necessarily being able to differentiate and evaluate lower from higher forms of spirituality.

The idea that the scientific consensus or Jim Garrison are "elitist" represents a Green pathology.  When taken to extremes, it can turn to a conspiracy theory.  Greens, after all, are multiperspectival but are generally opposed to the concept of hierarchy or elites wishing equal opportunity for everyone.

Here are more of descriptions of Green global warming skepticism.  They are not in reference specifically to Green, but the skeptics described reminded me automatically of Green.  I will have to locate the links and insert it here:

They believed that "global warming" was nothing but a social construction — more like a myth invented by a community than a fact like a rock you could hold in your hand. After all, the critics pointed out, communities of scientists had often held mistaken views, and then changed their collective minds. You couldn't trust a clique of professionals, they warned, whose very social cohesion might perpetuate the error of a shared opinion. Hadn't experts once agreed to deny that greenhouse warming was possible? Hadn't experts, as recently as the 1970s, warned of a new ice age?

...Certainly in a restricted sense one could call the resulting understanding of climate change a product of human society, or as some would say, a social construct. Scientists themselves sometimes spoke in such terms, describing their understanding of climate as a stout edifice constructed from the countless mutually supporting observations and calculations.

...But what does it mean to say understanding was "constructed"? That is misleading language, no better than talking of scientific "advance." Scientists were not a crew laying bricks according to an architect's plans. The terms used in the previous paragraph come from traditional models for the scientific research process, relying on metaphors drawn from classical or even preclassical mechanics — a forward push or "advance," a "construction," a process where ideas are swayed by "pressures" or "influences," where observations "support" one another, and so forth. This language sounds like it means something, but it doesn't really.

...We should not call it "nothing but" a social product. Future climate change in this regard is like electrons, galaxies, and many other things not immediately accessible to our senses. All these concepts emerged from a vigorous struggle of ideas, evolving through encounters with experiments, observations, and rival hypotheses. Eventually most people were persuaded to agree that the risk of global warming was real, regardless of the social process that had led to the conclusion.

 

Some other examples:

Earl:

 

. . . .They’re more and more frequently becoming the party of rationalization and denial, and with a kind of “moral relativism” becoming prominent that would not have been associated with “conservatism” in the past. They fall back on “respecting different opinions” and “different points of view” in their arguments all the time when they start hitting factual issues where the real world isn’t validating their policies and views.

Deniers tend towards denying that there is an objective “out there” reality or at least believing or asserting that that a meaningful reality does not contain probabilities in it....The deniers’ theory of science would actually prohibit that there would ever be an meaningful climate science because of the multi-factorial and “noisy” nature of the climate system. They are holding climate science responsible when in fact it is the nature of the object of study, the climate, that is the source of the uncertainty.


I will try to finish this later.  I welcome any feedback.

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Yeah, you're right

Schalk,

After I posted it I realized that I should have clarified by referring to lines, since various lines can be at various stages of development within a single entity.

My intent was really only to point out and discuss Green global warming skeptics/deniers, since Green is so often associated with environmentalism and left-wing eco-radicalism.  Then for some reason I felt compelled to point out how it could possibly manifest in other stages as well which was not my intent initially.  Perhaps I should have left out the other portions and focused only on Green. 

The thing about "climate change skepticism" is that it's difficult to pinpoint which "line" we are referring to, specifically. An amber's skepticism (or rather, denialism, since it is not yet rational and more absolutist) is based on religious/moral lines whereas an orange form of skepticism is the more rational kind from the cognitive or economic/entrepreneurial line (is that even a "line"?).   All I knew basically was that environmentalism was generally associated with Green, yet kept encountering these contrarian/skeptical arguments on the 'net that looked virtually identical to "Green" v-memes (or whatever): arguments based on relativism, pluralism, accusations of elitism (toward the scientific consensus), and an overall tendency to frame the whole argument against global warming as a social construct.  Or as something that is ultimately unresolvable due to its vast complexity, as if to ignore all the years of scientific research behind it.  Essentially, tossing out the scientific portion of "Truth" altogether and declaring that there was no "truth."   These to me are traits of Green relativity.  My thinking at the time was that various skeptics had different objections based on their stages of development, but perhaps my thinking was too simplistic or could be mixed-up somewhere; yet I do think that there is a Green version of global warming skepticism/denialism.

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Your video

Hi Zoltan,

Thanks for the video.  It'll take a while to see it (technical problems: computer too slow), but I'll respond back.

barbi

 

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My feedback

The video was fascinating and thought-provoking.  I would definitely classify the fellow as someone who is at least at the orange/green stage who offers a classical utilitarian cost-benefit analysis approach toward problem-solving.

Only problem, he consults only with economists (and a group of college students) to prioritize and resolve the world's biggest problems using a cost-benefit analysis approach.  And he got the science wrong (please click on audios below) and grossly underestimated the impact of unmitigated global climate change.

There are many different problems in the world, but would you honestly trust the expertise of a bunch of "old white men" with degrees in economics to make value judgments that decide the fate of the whole of humanity (and future generations) using strictly a cost-benefit analysis approach?  This goes beyond the realm of their expertise.  So I say let the economists continue making their cost-benefit analyses but please, leave the prioritization and value-judgements to those experts who are more qualfied to do so.  Not only scientific experts, but experts in many different fields.

(courtesy of David Sunfellow's Post)

Climate Wars - Part One (MP3)

Climate Wars - Part Two (MP3)

Climate Wars - Part Three (MP3)

I would like to get your response to these audios in light of Bjorn's video presentation.

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Lomborg: Stage 3 or 4 Denial

I think that my ignorance of economics of climate change legislation is as bad as Lomborg's ignorance of the science behind climate change.  Together, we'd make a very bad team.

Yes, I agree that research and development are important and that pollution rights (cap and trade) is likely to be ineffective in the long run.  But without mitigation of carbon emissions, we will not be able to avert or postpone the most catastrophic effects of global climate change.  By Lomborg's own estimation, development of solar panels with the efficiency that he envisions will not be developed until the year 2050.  By then, it'll be too late.  

And where will this R and D occur, in the private or public sector?  By private or public funds?  Either way we look at it, it'll cost money.  So we also need a carbon tax.  Not cap and trade, although cap and trade is certainly better than absolutely nothing and would encourage the worst emitters to pollute less through "buying" pollution.  At any rate I don't know why he opposes it since it's a free market solution to environmental problems involvinig the trading of pollutions.  Raising the price of fossil fuel-based energy would perhaps do much more to encourage a rapid breakthrough in R&D in cheaper alternative energy.

What is more important right now is reducing carbon emissions quickly, which can't be done globally very quickly except via carbon tax.  The carbon industry (from cap and trade in Europe and Asia) has lost value since the economic crash and apparently will take too long before the details can be worked out to agree with every nation globally; Hansen estimates 10 years.  However, it is necessary for the United States to agree to some standard multinationally and stick with it so as to be a model for developing nations to follow; not wait for China or India.  China won't agree to anything until the United States does.  After all, the United States and the rest of the developed Western world are responsible for 75% of all global warming up to now.  Up to two years ago, the U.S. was the worst; it is we, after all, who've enjoyed all the benefits of modernity.  So we should take the lead. 

So opting out of an international agreement because China and India won't agree is a lousy excuse for not doing anything.  Hanson believes, and I personally agree, that the Copenhagen Conference in December (which differs from Bjorn's "Copenhagen Consensus" of global warming skeptic economists) should be postponed a year or two until we can perhaps iron out all the differences by switching to carbon tax instead of cap and trade agreements.  I have a James Hansen article which I'll have to  look up.  I also plan to revise my original post to add Lomborg to Green or Orange skeptics and to discuss the Stages of Denial, which I feel is more useful than categorizing deniers by stages of development.

One thing that I appreciate about this forum is that it gives me the opportunity to practice my critical thinking skills. 
"The object of philosophy is to think most critically and most comprehensively," according to Dr. Hill, my philosophy professor in the early '90s. 

But I do realize that this is the 21st century and that this is an Integral, not Philosophy forum.  So what we are ultimately aiming for is the elevation of discussion beyond "philosophy" to "eteology" of climate change issues (according to Jean Gebser--but not until we get through this philosophy and science first). 

I think I'm making progress because my previous discussion involved Stage 1 denial of global warming ("There is no global warming") and debating whether the Earth was flat or was warming or cooling.  Now, I've evolved to Stage 3 or 4 denialism discussions (that global warming is man-made but insignificant (Stage 3) or that anthropogenic global warming is significant, but nothing we can do about it at this point (Stage 4).  Please do not qote me on this because I have to double-check).  I may very well myself be at Stage 4 but even more importantly, aside from philosophy, I appreciate this forum because it  forces me to study all of the intricacies concerning climate change issues.  Even those dimension that I've utterly neglected all my life, such as economics (I don't even have a checking account!).  And I appreciate those who have contributed to my learning.  Which is everyone. 

I even appreciate Lomborg's Op-ed article on The Washington Post.  However, given his negative portrayal on Wikipedia as committing scientific fraud and misrepresenting statistics and evidence in his book, I thought that reader comments, rather than his own piece, would be more useful for discussion.  Oftentimes, reader comments are very insightful for rounding out an op ed opinion (there were 96 total; the ones below were "hand-picked" by moi because of their relevancy so are possibly "one-sided," since the economists from the Copenhagen Consensus had all indicated that they were global warming skeptics and were hand-picked by Bjorn):

1uncle wrote:

Our big problem is overpopulation. Get rid of all illegal aliens by any means necessary. Stop creating democrats on welfare by any means necessary. Stop allowing legal immigrants except the few with much education needed or rich enough with intent to create jobs. Millions fewer people will create fewer environmental problems.
 
 [Leave it to an ethnocentric to think that tougher immigration will stop global warming --me]
 
6/26/2008 1:48:09 PMd D  we need big investment into R and develop and implement alternative energies. We need new, sustainable energy sources, not just more efficient ways to use fossil fuels. I applaud the article because it is right on the money.

 

 

Arcturus wrote:
At first I thought this was going to be a serious piece, until I saw the name associated with it. More Fred Hiatt nonsense giving rightwing nut-jobs prominence on the op-ed page. Lomborg is a clown from the global warming denying crowd from the 1990s who is pretty much irrelevant, except on the rightwing think tank circle jerk circuit, and, of course, Fred Hiatt's op-ed pages.

A few points: the "slashing trillions of dollars" from U.S. GDP was simply made up. No reputable study has shown that, for instance, see the CBO report from last April. Actual amounts are negligible compared to the size of the overall U.S. economy. The real policy issue has to do with distributional effects versus efficiency.

Secondly, there was no meaningful debate on the Lieberman - Warner bill. It was another Harry Reid failure.

Third, this sentence: "The panel concluded that the least effective use of resources in slowing global warming would come from simply cutting carbon dioxide emissions" makes no sense at all, but this whole piece is a farce.

Any time someone has to tell you how many Nobel laureates support something through some circuitous route, or invokes Al Gore's name while trying to state the opposite of what he supports, you can be sure it's part of the global warming denier crowd.

-In addition to this in his book "The Skeptical Environmentalist" he isn't stating a non-existence of global warming, but doubting the catastrophic consequences. This may seem like a small point, but it's quite huge when the loudest mouths are using Lomborg to state we should do nothing at all. You've got to read this book, it's so ridiculous to state that it's happening but nothing negative will occur from it. He's made a lot of money to say nothing will happen due to warming and my guess is because he's paid quite a bit to say it. He can't be "proven" wrong until the first disasters overwhelm us anyhow.
6/26/2008 12:14:34 PM
 
 
The "efficiency" of solar cells is not directly comparable or relevant. Which is better? 10% of a free, unlimited, non-polluting energy source or 30% of an expensive, dirty, and ultimately limited source of energy. We need hydrocarbons for the plastics and related materials of tomorrow. Today we are burning houses, cars, furniture, and consumer products that we are going to want in the future.

Raising the price of carbon-based energy will make non-carbon energy like wind and solar more affordable (in the same way that the increased price has made offshore drilling, the Alberta tar sands, and biofuels more economically viable today). Simple economics suggests that when the price increases for one good, demand increases for other goods. As more investment and development of wind, solar, nuclear, and other energy alternatives, economics of scale will drive down the capital cost of those technologies.

It is disingenuous to claim that China has to act first. A view of history shows America and other industrialized countries having benefited from the damage we've done to the planet over the past two centuries, and especially over the past few decades when most of the damage has been done. A non-Western view asks the West to take the first steps to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, with the developing countries joining in the second phase of global environmental remediation. This is the promise we made in the Kyoto Accord, and this is the promise which Bush has broken. China won't budge until the US does first (or until it has to). If we develop new energy technologies soon enough, we can sell these to the Chinese.

The report ignores the incidental costs (property damage) caused by environmental change. How much was New Orleans' ninth ward worth? How much is New York, Los Angeles, Miami, Barcelona, Dhaka, Bombay, and scores of other coastal cities worth? Remember that Washington was built in a swamp, and think about what happens to downtown when the water table is a few yards higher.
6/26/2008 12:05:41 PM
 
 
wickiser wrote:
The dramatic increases in tech research will come from the private sector as they always have. Just as the author opposes the tax cost of emission reduction he will oppose any tax cost of government research. Private industry will find the money for research when it is cost effective. Therefore an emission tax will assist making it cost effective and will increase the amount of research money private sources spend on alternate means of energy.
6/26/2008 11:10:27 AM
 
pb1123 wrote:
Lomborg has contributed more hot air to the global warming discussion than most, by minimizing the seriousness of the problem and by arguing misleadingly that the main concerns raised by global warming are economic.
He functions mainly as a propaganda device for corporate interests wishing to avoid global warming solutions remedies whih limit their profits.
6/26/2008 11:07:17 AM
 
jreed11665 wrote:
This article is nothing more than an excuse to do nothing. Throw a little research money here and there to discover things that may well be physically impossible. The author could more simply ask all priests and ministers to have their congregations pray that carbon dioxide stop adsorbing infrared. That would likely be an equally certain and effective solution. By the way, I haven't heard of any economist who's also an expert on molecular physics.
6/26/2008 10:38:49 AM
 
seebeepx wrote:
Interesting point (I'm sure you're receiving plenty of harassment for it), but I fail to see how these economist's findings are truly relevant to the bill, that at best provides incentive for American businesses to pursue biofuels and solar energy on their own. They're the ones who are going to make them cheap for consumers. At worst the bill is, as you say, an impotent distraction. All the same- this country needs to pull the petrol needle out of it's arm.

"The United States has an opportunity to lead the world on research and development, which would give it the moral authority to demand that everyone else do the same." Shame on your editor for printing this. Those days are over.
6/26/2008 10:21:14 AM
 
spidey103 wrote:
I'm with Bjorn. First, I thought there was no such thing as global warming. Then I decided global warming existed, but that it was a natural cycle human activity had nothing to do with. Faced with the facts, I eventually had to conclude that global warming exists and that it is mostly caused by humans. But the bright side, as Bjorn points out, is that there is no point in trying to do anything about it. So I won't waste my money on expensive beachfront property, I'll just wait a few years and the ocean will come to me.
6/26/2008 8:46:03 AM
 
[The above is an example of Stage 4 Denial of Global Warming, I believe.  I believe that Lomborg's position is Stage 3 Denial --me]
 
johnbsmrk wrote:
You have to be kidding me. This guy denied global warming existed and was man made for years. Now the evidence is overwhelming his latest gambit is we can't do anything about it because it's too expensive. Basically he's a shill for energy companies who have paid him large sums for years to peddle this nonsense.
6/26/2008 7:57:34 AM
 
freedom41 wrote:
Some big problems with this article:

1) if we wait until 2050 for a solution, it may be too late to avert major or even catastrophic climate change

2) a cap-and-trade or tax makes alternative energies relatively cheaper and fossil fuels relatively more expensive. Lomborg wrongly thinks it is the absolute price that matters, but it's really the relative price

3) nowhere does he mention conservation and increased efficiency in how we use energy. Cap-and-trade is designed to encourage companies to reduce waste (which also increases profits) by raising the price of fuel. As all good economists know, people will respond to higher prices by changing how they use that good, not just by buying more of it.

4) trillions of dollars over 50 years may in fact be smaller than we think (we've spent one trillion in Iraq so far by some estimates)
6/26/2008 3:15:11 AM
 
 
 
svand wrote:
Bjorn Lomborg and his Copenhagen Consensus are frauds. While it is true that his hand selected group of economists did include Nobel laureates, all of the people which Bjorn personally selected had already indicated that they were climate skeptics before he selected them. None of the economists were specialists in the macroeconomic fields in which they were expected to offer their opinions. There are at least as many Nobel laureates who disagree strongly with the so-called Copenhagen Consensus, but of course, none of them were asked to serve the committee set up by this far right wing industrialist.
6/26/2008 1:15:41 AM
 
zcezcest1 wrote:
Lomborg misses a hugely important point. For the first time, we are considering taxing carbon, albeit indirectly. For the first time, this pollution will not be FREE. There has always been a cost to pollution, but no one has paid for it. This is a sea change -- though perhaps its still too modest. Finally, there will be a business incentive to move to lower carbon technologies. The crossover point from fossil fuels to other energy sources will occur sooner.

Do we need to encourage use of alternative technologies? Yes.

If you use the model of the semiconductor business, the R&D investment is useful. But the real R&D came from private businesses using their operating profits. The costs of computer chips has dropped dramatically with aggressive evolutionary approaches.

The solar thermal energy that is sought after now, essentially died in the Mojave desert about a decade ago with the suspension of helpful tax credits.

The real task will be to insure that these companies with good energy solutions have profits to invest and the motivation to drive costs down. It is their R&D that will make the difference. Can government R&D help? Yes. Will it drive this engine? Ummm, NO.
6/26/2008 1:01:23 AM
 
 
 

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Quadrants, Hansen's carbon tax suggesion

Hi Bernhard,

You wrote:

Don't you think that here the quadrants come into play (collective mind does not allow individual opinion)?

Yes, all quadrants ultimately come into play in an Integral discussion.  Climate science involves exterior collective realities on LR quadrant.  However, we mustn't confuse the scientific consensus--whether on the UR or LR--with collective mind.  Collective mind involves every sentient being to opine on a subject from any quadrant; even those who aren't qualified or whose opinions don't really matter.  Individual opinions are abundant and the collective mind allows them.  The problem is determining which ones are the most relevant to consider.

When it comes to the scientific consensuus on climate change, for example, it's best to trust the opinion of the IPCC.  On other matters, such as policy issues on climate change, there is no scientific consensus yet there is a collective feeling among Democrats to agree with Obama's plan to adopt a cap and trade policy.  While certainly better than the current policy of nothing (if only to set a precedent for other nations to agree to one as well), I still regard the opinion of certain individuals, such as James Hansen's, to be more authoritative than Obama's or the Democratic collectives' opinion when it comes to effective legislation.  

Once I was objected to nuclear energy (which is the herd mentality of Democrats), but am now considering the possibility of this being a viable alternative energy to get rid of the coal plants and to encourage capitalists and Republicans to be more receptive to climate change issues.  I'm not sure of cost-benefit of that over other alternative forms of energy, but at least it is much cleaner than coal and would make the conservatives more happy to join the climate change "band wagon."   I was influenced by James Hansen's opinion on the Charlie Rose Show and by another individual opinion expressed on the Climate Wars audio.

This is the James Hansen article on carbon tax, which goes against the current administration's plans of cap and trade, yet I think is more realistic:


  

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 16:41

AFP News Briefs List
 
Hansen only way to keep planet cool: Hansen by Marlowe Hood
Print Greenhouse gas emissions must be cut more quickly and deeply than thought only two years ago to avoid dire consequences, and a straight-up carbon tax is the only realistic way to do it, top climate scientist James Hansen said in an interview.

New research paints an even gloomier picture of global warming than the already grim report put out in early 2007 by the UN's Nobel-winning scientific panel, he told AFP at the margins of a major climate conference.

Director since 1981 of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies, Hansen made headlines worldwide in 1988 with his US Congress testimony that climate change was already well under way, a finding highly contested at the time.

"What we have realised is that the dangerous level of atmospheric carbon dioxide is much lower than what we thought a few years ago," he said.

To prevent a devastating maelstrom of drought, extreme weather, famine and forced migration by century's end, the concentration of CO2 will have to be kept under 350 parts per million (ppm), he said.

"We are actually going to have to decrease the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere," he added, noting that the current level -- still rising -- is 385 ppm.

The UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change had suggested that a ceiling of 450 ppm would be enough to forestall the worst effects of climate change.

Hansen's argument is a simple as it is sobering: continuing to drain Earth's store of fossil fuels -- oil, gas and coal -- will lead humanity straight toward climate calamity.

Only an abrupt and profound change in the way we consume energy can stop the global warming juggernaut.

A cap-and-trade system, under which progressively stricter "polluting right" exchanged in a carbon market, is likely to be reinforced at UN climate talks in Copenhagen this December as the favoured approach to slashing greenhouse gases.

The system is already in practice in the European Union, and has been proposed by US President Barack Obama for the United States.

But Hansen is highly sceptical that it can work.

"It takes about 10 years to negotiate it and get all the countries on board, and then you make all sort of compromises, so it turns to be very ineffectual," he said.

"If it's going to be cap and trade, I'd rather nothing came out of Copenhagen. I'd rather take another year and two and get it right."

The fact that prices in the EU carbon market have plummeted due to the global economic crisis lends weight to Hansen's doubts.

What would work, he argues, is a direct tax -- as close to the source as possible -- on fossil fuels.

"A carbon tax is the mechanism that allows you to make an international agreement globally effective in a short period of time," he said.

"You could start with the EU, United States and China -- that would be enough," he added, saying other nations confronted with a carbon-tax on their exports would quickly follow suit.

To create strong "green" incentives, the levy should be given directly back to the public on a per capita basis -- in the United States, he said, it would amount to several thousand dollars per household.

"A person with several large cars and a large house will have a tax greatly exceeding the dividend. A family reducing its carbon footprint to less than average will make money," Hansen wrote in December in an open letter to then president-elect Obama and his wife Michelle.

A third pillar of his climate proposal centers on coal, the most plentiful and polluting of the major fossil fuels. Hansen says all new coal-fired power plants should be banned, and older ones fitted with systems to capture carbon emissions and bury them underground.

Hansen's proposals got an unsolicited boost at the climate conference Tuesday from leading US economist William Nordhaus of Yale University, who told 2,000 experts that cap and trade "is inefficient and prone to market failure."

"It is better to change now, and quickly replace the cap and trade structure by a tax on green gas emissions."

After his 1980s testimony put him in the global spotligh, Hansen withdrew from the public arena to concentrate on science.

But 15 years later, the yawning gap between scientific certainty and public doubt on the climate threat, combined with the Bush administration's censuring of his institute's statements on climate, prompted him to get back in the game. "I decided that I didn't want my grand-children to say, 'grandpa understood what was happening but he didn't make it clear'," he said smiling.

 

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Copenhagen Consensus contradicts Lomborg's claim

Bernhard,

I read the Executive Summary of the Copenhagen Consensus 2008.  No where does it make the claim that investment in R&D should be used instead of mitigation efforts, as Lomborg contends in his Op-ed piece.  What it states instead is that mitigation efforts as outlined by the Kyoto Protocol alone without investment in research and development and adaptation would be the least effective strategy for combatting global warming.  They conclude that the most effective means for fighting climate change are a combination of mitigation, R&D, and adaptation.  By their own estimation, a combination of all three strategies will reduce the average global temperature from their anticipated 3.5 C increase by 2100 to only a 3.0 C increase by 2100.  This is only a 0.5 C reduction (if I'm reading their summary correctly).  I am not aware of the IPCC's actual position on this so their conclusions will have to be checked against IPCC's assessments. 

Nowhere in the executive summary are positive feedbacks and "tipping points" triggering sudden catastrophic climate change addressed.  According to many climate scientists, a mere 2.5 C increase (if not less) is all that is necessary for human CO2 emissions to set in motion the natural forces which take over climate change from there, resulting in a runaway greenhouse effect, a sudden escalation in average global temperature, and sudden and catastropic climate change.  At which point climate change is beyond our control.  So their estimates are far too conservative.  This is what we get when economists, rather than scientists more relevant to the field of climate change, are consulted as experts.  Based on my understanding, scientific awareness and concern of the role of positive feedback has increased greatly since the 2007 Assessment of the IPCC, on which the Copenhagen Consensus claims to be based.

In addition, there are just as many (if not more) eminent economists who were never asked to be a part of this "consensus" because of their favorable views toward Kyoto Cap and Trade policies.  In fact, they have written articles strongly objecting to the conclusions of the Copenhagen Consensus. [citation needed; placeholder for examples].

When including positive feedback into the overall equation, what immediately becomes obvious is the need to maintain (if not reduce, according to Hansen) CO2 emissions so as to not pass the 2.5 C tipping point.  Certainly, R&D is necessary in creating a more viable alternative energy system that replaces fossil fuel.  At any rate, it is not my impression that the Kyoto Treaty prevents other governments from investing in R&D as well.  If I'm not mistaken, I think that Germany leads the U.S. by a long shot in R&D, yet it signed on to Kyoto.  So ultimately, it appears that the Copenhagen Consensus suggests a false alternative of Kyoto cap and trade vs. self-governed mitigation and R&D.  

If you look at the most recent comment on Lomborg's article, you will find a very long comment posted by someone who claims to be one of the writers of the 2008 Copenhagen Consensus report.  He wrote that since he had noticed that Lomborg was citing his work for stating his case, that he needed to correct the public on some factual errors that Lomborg had made in his article regarding his work.  From what I can gather from his comment, he points out that it is not an either/or proposition as Lomborg makes it out to be between R&D or mitigation, but rather a "not-only-mitigation-but-also" proposition of a combination of mitigation, R&D, and adaptation.

The second part of your post did not appear until I clicked on this screen.  I'm trying to keep my posts short so I'll address the second portion separately.

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collectivism vs. individualism

Here is the blank half of your post, which does not appear until you click "add comment":

 

 

With the collective mind I referred to what you wrote about the social construction aspect of global warming (After all, the critics pointed out, communities of scientists had often held mistaken views, and then changed their collective minds.). In this sense, I guess there is a bias of collective vs. individual, and this is a more philosophical and political than scientific topic. I think the climate debate is also about collectivism vs. individualism, and the actually featured talk about Ayn Rand (by Ken Wilber and Nathaniel Branden) is touching this issue. Part of the climate discussion is just quite anti-modern, and therefore Boomeritis. I know these points of view from myself, I was one of the first members of the (German)Green Party in my little town 30 years ago. Regarding nuclear energy I was, of course, very opposed, and I still don't like it, although it could be a transitional solution (though it is not very cost-effective).

 

It is not so long ago, about 5 years, when I had initated an Integral Meetup Group in Nuremberg, and a friend said something sceptical about global warming. Then I needed at least a year to begin to understand that it was possible to be sceptical of the collective view on this issue....! I think here should be the place to find a comprehensive view on climate change. On Wikipedia, where I am contributing sometimes, there is much more 1st tier, of course.

I wasn't sure which quadrants you were referring to when you said "individual" vs. "collectives," so I attempted to address both sides of the quadrant, since both subjective and objective quadrants have an individual (upper) and collective (lower) dimension.

Now having re-read your comment, I think you were referring more to the individualism of the upper quadrants on either side with respect to Ayn Rand's objectivism more so than on individual dissenting scientists on either the UR or LR quadrant.  Oh well.  I begin with "collectivism vs. individualism" in the scientific sense first:

Individualism vs. Collectivism, Right-hand Quadrants

Since individual dissenting scientists can theoretically refer to dissenting scientists on either the UR (exterior individual) or LR quadrant (exterior collective), the terms "individual" vs. "collective" will apply very loosely to respond to the above.  "Individual" in this sense refers to individual dissenting scientists as opposed to "collectives," which on the right-hand quadrants appear to refer to a community of scientists known as a scientific consensus whether on the UR or LR quadrant.  Thus, "individual" or "collective" may not necessarily be in reference to the upper or lower quadrants.

When I referred to the social construction aspect of global warming, I wasn't expressing my personal view but was referring to a classic example of Green global warming denialism, since green deconstructionism focuses on denying objective reality and referring to truth from right-hand quadrants as a "social construct."

You wrote that with respect to the "social construct" of truth as deemed by a community of scientists (more specifically, the scientific consensus on anthropogenic global warming, I assume), that there is a bias of collectivism vs. individualism. 

By "collectivism," I presume that in this context you are referring to a community of scientists known as the scientific consensus as opposed to individual scientists dissenting from the scientific consensus, and the fact that a bias exists in science toward "collectivism" (the consensus view) vs. "individualism" (a dissenting scientist's view).  This--in spite of the "collective" (consensus view) often being mistaken, requiring paradigm shifts and changes in collective thinking.

While I can see this as being the case at one time with regard to 17th century classical Newtonian physics (the once prevailing scientific consensus view) vs. the quantum mechanics of the 20th century (a once dissenting scientific view), classical Newtonian theory is still valid and true on the macroscopic level.  The "paradigm shift" or change occurred in particle physics, where classical Newtonian theory was found to no longer have validity in the subatomic realm (and therefore, could no longer hold claims to exclusivity and absolute truth).

Other paradigm shifts also occurred in previous times such as the once prevailing view that the earth was the center of the universe vs. the Copernican view and the church fathers' belief of "no moons on Jupiter" vs. Galileo's observation of moons on Jupiter.  Since science as a domain did not emerge until the time of Galileo, we cannot use Copernicus as an example of overturning the scientific consensus since there was no formalized methodology of science at the time.  For that matter, we can't even use Galileo as overturning the scientific consensus since a community of church fathers do not count as a "scientific consensus."

When applied to anthropogenic climate change, the idea that after all, the critics pointed out, communities of scientists had often held mistaken views, and then changed their collective minds is not valid.  For one thing, it took a full century of investigation and debating before science arrived at a consensus on anthropogenic global warming.  The consensus view that the earth is warming and that human CO2 emissions are the primary cause of this is therefore relatively recent yet based on a century of careful observation and study.  So far as I can tell, this consensus view has never changed or was found to be mistaken. 

This notion of the scientific consensus being "mistaken" at one time is based on the fact that back in the early '70s (prior to the formation of a consensus view on anthropogenic global warming), a minority of scientists (I think, about 30% but don't quote me) believed that the earth was cooling and was entering an ice age.  In spite of its popularity in the press, this was never a consensus position held by science and was held only by a minority of science--the overwhelming majority of whom have since reversed their position to agree with the scientific consensus. 

Thus, while true, perhaps, that as the critics pointed out, communities of scientists had held mistaken views, and then changed their collective minds, what we're finding in the case of global warming is the reverse phenomenon instead: that rather than the consensus having to change their views collectively, individual scientists who previously were mistaken in their views were compelled to change their views to the collective (consensus) view in the face of an overwhelming body of evidence that continue to support and reinforce the consensus.   This in itself does not mean that the consensus isn't mistaken as all scientific theories are open to refutation.

Individualism vs. Collectivism, Various Quadrants

In response to the postmodern denialist claim of the fallibility of science, you wrote, "In this sense, I guess there is a bias of collective vs. individual, and this is a more philosophical and political than scientific topic."  This doesn't really mean much unless by "collective," you are referring to a collective of people other than the scientific consensus.  If so, you are referring to other quadrants and methodologies that in themselves do not invalidate the scientific consensus on climate change, but argue other things (such as policy or economics and so on).

In that sense, we can apply Ayn Rand's individualism vs. collectivism in the economic and also philosophical sense.  The assumption among many free-market capitalists and followers of Ayn Rand is that innovation and ideas come from individuals rather than from collectives.  Based on this observation, and considering the growing concern among scientists to reduce human carbon emissions, a free market solution such as the Kyoto Agreement of cap and trade is the most effective for promoting both research and development and also industry efficiency on an individual company level (something the Copenhagen Consensus failed to address was the innovation and energy efficiency in industries that this cap and trade policy encourages).  From an objectivist point of view, a cap and trade policy is much preferable to a straight carbon tax as it would force companies to become more efficient and thereby become more competetive and innovative.  From a scientific view, a ceiling or "cap" is necessary to set global standard for emission down to ppm, which a carbon tax doesn't necessarily guarantee (especially when gas and coal can be purchased so cheaply nowadays--which is likely to change very soon in response to peak oil).  Since cap and trade rewards companies to become more competetive and to develop alternatives to fossil fuel (albeit indirectly), R&D is encouraged on an individual company level.

On the collectivist side, you have a straight carbon tax.  According to James Hansen, there are so many loopholes and grandfather clauses in cap and trade and so many disagreements between nations on the finer details that it may ultimately prove to be ineffective, since immediate and substantial reduction CO2 emission is necessary to prevent a tipping point and catastrophic global climate change.  Considering Hansen's dire warning of possibly only a straight carbon tax working, we may want to pay heed to his alarm.

However, given that cap and trade is a "sneaky and indirect way" of taxing industries (according to Lomborg) and the fact that the public may be more averse to being taxed individually (as private citizens) by way of carbon tax to pay for pollutions by fossil-burning industries, a cap and trade policy, as "sneaky" as it is and as inefficient and inadequate as it is, may be the only realistic political solution to this crisis from a political standpoint.  After all, in the United States, this is what Obama campaigned on.  In addition, cap and trade sets a global ceiling to carbon emissions whereas carbon tax does not. 

Given all of the above and the consequences of unmitigated climate change, an Integral solution would be to adopt cap and trade of Kyoto to regulate industries and to impose a carbon tax on individuals in addition to research and development, efficiency, and adaptation: thus encouraging both a collectivist and individualist solution. 

No one ever said that solving climate change wouldn't be costly.  Trillions "wasted" on cap and trade and carbon tax and R&D may be nothing compared to total extinction.  If we survive it as a species and resolve the climate issue, this may usher in a new Integral age that is no longer focused purely on the material and quantitive aspects of the mental-rational (orange and green).

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Global Boiling Roulette: The Margin of Error is Gone

The following article doesn't provide a breakdown of how a carbon tax might compare to a global cap and trade agreement, but does offer a new perspective on how scientific views have changed over time in regard to a cap and trade agreement vs. no agreement.  It seems that a carbon tax, while theoretically more effective, may not be feasible politically.  Nor is it enforceable globally unless there is a switch from nation-states to a one world federation to impose a global carbon tax on every world citizen. Please correct me if I'm wrong.  But considering the inadequacies of the cap and trade expressed by Hansen, my thinking is that a combination of an international cap and trade agreement combined with a national carbon tax would be a more effective route to address the more immediate concerns of averting a 2.5 C "tipping point," which R&D alone can't be counted on to deliver us from in the next few years or decades.

Another reason why carbon tax may be preferable (if it were politically feasible to implement) is because I believe that under current cap and trade scheme, certain carbon-emitting American companies (such as cement industries, etc.) have requested to be exempt from this policy or else they have threatened that they will move their companies to a country that does not participate in a cap and trade agreement.  Should this be the case, a straight carbon tax might be a way of getting around this loophole by taxing these companies straight where their company executives live (most of whom do not live in second or third world countries but here in the U.S.A.), and forcing these executives to report the amount of pollution created by their overseas companies and taxing them an additional carbon tax based on their amount of carbon emissions.  What you think about that?

In addition, the Copenhagen Consensus believes that 550 ppm is a safe level and bases its report on that figure.  The IPCC warns that going over 450 ppm is dangerous.  More recently, James Hansen and a number of climate scientists have come out to say that the current 385 ppm should be reduced to 350 ppm to avoid a catastrophic tipping point.  Should this be the case, mitigation would be the most immediate concern (over Lomborg's idea of R&D while granting that all strategies, of course, are necessary).  I would think that a more Integral perspective would want to implement mitigation efforts both nationally (carbon tax) and globally (international cap and trade agreement), no? 


 

Source:

http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/03/28/global-boiling-roulette/

Global Boiling Roulette: The Margin For Error Is Gone

In 2002, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology Joint Program on the Science and Policy of Global Change designed the “Greenhouse Gamble” roulette wheels to depict the “probability of potential global warming over the next hundred years,” based on the latest scientific research. They compared the gamble of warming with and without an international agreement to reduce emissions through programs like the cap and trade system proposed by President Obama. Today, they released updated roulette wheels, reflecting how much worse the gamble has gotten:

 


The ‘No Policy’ Gamble (2002 v. 2009)20022009
No Policy - 2002No Policy - 2009
These wheels assume a scenario in which “no policy” action is taken to try to curb the global emissions of greenhouse gases. In the previous wheel the likelihood of exceeding 5°C was about 4%, but in the new wheels that likelihood is 57%.
MIT Joint Program on the Science and Policy of Global Change, 2009.

 

 


The ‘Policy Action’ Gamble (2002 v. 2009)20022009
Policy - 2002Policy - 2009
If greenhouse gas emissions are controlled to relatively low levels then the Earth systems feedbacks are much lower, but there is no longer any possibility of less than 1°C warming.
MIT Joint Program on the Science and Policy of Global Change, 2009.

 

The “policy” scenario reflects the establishment of mandatory policies to reduce emissions, such as building standards and cap and trade systems, that limit total carbon dioxide concentrations to 550 parts per million. However, as climate scientist Stefan Rahmstorf recently explained, even limiting warming to two degrees Centigrade cannot be considered safe, which is why there is a growing demand for policies that limit CO2 concentrations to 350 ppm.

The new roulette wheels were initially released in February 2009, with a reset color scale that made a direct comparison between the old and new scenarios difficult. The Wonk Room thanks the Global Change Program for taking our suggestion to update the wheels.


Now, we have a better way of making sense of Bjorn Lomborg's Copenhagen Consensus 2008 and putting it in its proper perspective.

According to the executive summary of the Copenhagen Consensus in 2008, the projected rise in average global temperature is 3.5 C by 2100 with no mitigation efforts, which is used as a "baseline."

With a combination of mitigation, adaptation, and R&D, the Copenhagen Consensus 2008 estimates that the projected rise in average global temperature is 3.0 C by 2100, meaning only a 0.5 C reduction after trillions of dollars spent.

Indeed, based on the economists from the Copenhagen Consensus, "no action" is little different from "trillions of dollars wasted" on mitigation efforts.

Based on the the pie charts created by Massachusetts Institute of Technology Joint Program on the Science and Policy of Global Change in 2009 (see charts above), the number of scientists agreeing with the Copenhagen Consensus of a 3.5 C rise by 2100 without mitigation efforts is about 10% (an eyeball estimation), whereas 90% of these scientists disagree with this "consensus," reporting that a no agreement or no mitigation plan will result in a 4-7 C temperature rise by 2100.  Well beyond the tipping point of 2.5 C.

Accordingly, a "cap and trade system" according to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in 2009 reports that less than 10% of these scientists agree with the economists at the Copenhagen Consensus that a combination of mitigation, adaptation, and R&D will result in a temperature rise of 3.0 C.  Well over 90% of these scientists believe that a "policy action," such as cap and trade, will result in a temperature rise of only 1-3 C.  Of the 90%, approximately 75% of these believe that a "policy action gamble" will result in only a 1-2.5 C temperature rise: thus, indicating that 70% of these scientists believe that a cap and trade agreement may prevent a "tipping point" and a sudden and catastrophic climate change.

What these economists at the Copenhagen Consensus did, in effect, was choose the "best case scenario" for "no policy action" and a "worst case scenario" for "policy action" (which perhaps conforms with their pro-industy ideology).  This to me is scientific dishonesty.  In addition, they claim to base their assessment on the IPCC Fourth Annual Assessment in 2007, when in fact the 550 ppm ceiling that they use was from the dated Kyoto Protocol from several years ago.    

In closing, I would not put any faith in the Copenhagen Consensus.  It is obviously skewed toward inaction and deregulation policies for the benefit of industries.

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Keeping pollution free; Rep. Barton's Medieval Warm Theory

So in the past there have been warmer times (e.g. the middle ages)?   

 

When?  The Carboniferous Period?

If this is your reason for not being afraid of positive feedbacks, then I would be afraid.

The "Medieval Warm Period" is thought to be a regional anomoly confined to the North Atlantic.  Based on ice core samples, tree rings, lake deposits, and data from thousands of peer-reviewed studies from around the world, the IPCC does not consider the slight warming period from the middle ages to be globally synchronous.  Nor does it consider this period warmer than today.

Capitalism sometimes helps the poor and occasionally does not damage them economically.  This is not to say that capitalism is "bad."  Capitalism has the potential to do great things.  The best way that capitalism can help the poor at the current time is to put a market price on carbon emissions in richer, developed countries.  Then, the richer countries can come together and sponsor poorer countries in adopting a Cap and Trade policy.  

The economic argument against taxation and pricing of carbon doesn't change the reality of global climate change, which will hit the poorer countries that are closer to the equator first.  Keeping pollution free does not help the poor; as the poor will be the first and hardest hit with unmitigated global warming.  A 2.5 C rise in average global temperature can result in a positive feedback that triggers floods, droughts, water shortages, crop failures, starvation, dehydration, climate wars, and mass migrations of at least a billion climate change refugees from these poorer countries to countries into the North.

It's more than just an economic issue.

While I think that Spiral Dynamics, Paul Ray and, more importantly, Ken Wilber, are absolutely critical for helping us to refine our understanding of the modern and postmodern worlds (and beyond), when it comes to climate change and to the understanding of our basic predicament, I'm still greatly indebted to Jean Gebser and to his magum opus, The Ever-Present Origin.  Written nearly fifty years ago, his theory of the five different structures of consciousness (namely, archaic, magic, mythic, mental-rational, and integral-aperspectival) is hailed as a pioneering work in Integral theory although today, it is no longer regarded as being the most up-to-date or the most comprehensive Integral model in existence (the Green stage, for instance, had not yet differentiated fully from Orange to be recognized as such).  Yet precisely for this reason, and for the fact that Gebser is fully cognizant of the Integral as an altogether new and different structure of consciousness, his work can also shed light on the fact that Green, while indeed a stage in itself, is nevertheless (along with Orange) a part of the mental-rational structure of consciousness.  That is to say, postmodern Green is essentially the last gasp of modernity and rational Orange.

Gebser's basic message, written in the context of the Cold War and nuclear armageddon, is still highly relevant today in that nothing short of a full structural leap into the Integral will be needed to save ourselves from fragmentation and ultimate self-destruction.  This is, after all, still (as then) the deficient phase of the mental-rational structure, which is spatially-orientated and I-oriented and is therefore oriented upon possession and material acquistion, unlimited growth, power (energy), and consumption.  What we have done is take 300 million years of carbon vegetation and have injected it into the atmosphere all at once (in the course of two centuries; so little difference).  If this is not a sign of  material excess and ultimate economic folly (not to mention ultimate selfishness), then I don't know what is.  In a very real sense, both premoderns and postmoderns are correct in pointing out that modernity can lead to our collective demise.

Orange and Green are both stages in the mental-rational structure of consciousness, which as a structure is materially and spatially oriented.  Just because one is a Marxist or an anti-capitalist does not mean that one is automatically an anti-materialist; but only that one is anti-capitalist.  Both the free-market capitalism and communism arose out of the mental-rational structure, with the former seeking material acquisition and economic freedom and the latter seeking redistribution of these material goods to all in the name of economic security or social justice.  They are equally materially-oriented with a very limited conception of freedom.

With Orange we have the dignities and disasters of modernity, and with Green we have the democratization and redistribution of these dignities and disasters.  Thus, while bringing us the environmental movement and blaming modern Orange for environmental degradation and destruction, Green has been an enabler in spreading the values of modernity to all structures and to all corners of the world in the name of democracy and equal opportunity for everyone.  And as noble and as hypocritical as it all seems, all of this is a part of the ongoing evolutionary process toward the Integral. 

So there's a reason why Integral is not merely a stage or structural leap but a full tier-jump in consciousness: in the event that we haven't destroyed ourselves first through all this progress, acquisition, redistribution, and consumption of limited material resources, we will have evolved into the spiritual and beyond the strictly material orientation of the mental-rational.  This is as true now as it was a half century ago, during the time of Gebser's writing.

This doesn't mean the end of capitalism or the renunciation of the material world and taking a vow of poverty: but it does mean a re-orientation of values by attending to the disasters of modernity and making its dignity available and sustainable for Spirit's continued unfolding in the manifest world.  Which neither acquisition nor redistribution of wealth can ultimately secure.  They can assist, but they can also distract and lead to economic debates oriented solely around objects and possession (or redistribution, makes little difference; since mental-rational is ultimately concerned with matter, i.e. material things--whether in terms of acquistion or redistribution).  This does not resolve the climate change problem.

So why do I bring all this up?  I suspect that it might be tempting to frame this whole climate change issue as an Orange vs. Green kind of thing when, in fact, the basic predicament is the deficient phase of the mental-rational structure itself, which includes both Orange and Green.  While true that Greens (assuming that they are liberal and Democratic Americans) tend to be more "pro-environmental," neither Green nor Orange centers of gravity appear to want to sacrifice their personal habits and luxuries for tougher climate change legislation.  Research indicates that the public, whether liberal or conservative, ranks global warming at or near the bottom of their list of priorities.  

 Source:


http://blogs.nwf.org/


Here is an amber skeptical argument against global warming using the Medieval Warming Period:

http://www.youtube.com/v/Z2bM5_Pe-rw&hl=en&fs=1

 A blogger from the National Wildife Federation summarizes the video above:

"Adapting is a common, natural way for people to ... to adapt to their environment," Barton continued, briefly channeling Austin Powers.

"When it rains, we find shelter. When it's hot, we get in the shade. When it's cold, we find a warm place to stay." What does Miami (6 feet above sea level) do if sea levels rise 6.5 feet as
new models suggest is possible? Rep. Barton doesn't say.

My favorite part of Barton's ramble: His wondrous musings about how people in England grew grapes! Way back when in the Middle Ages during a dubious "warm period"
global warming deniers like to trot out. Ah, those were the days. I like to sit back and think about what it must've been like while drinking a nice glass of English Seyval Blanc.

But where Rep. Barton crosses from comical to forehead-slappingly wrong is when he calls adaptation "affordable." A top economist and climate change expert
recently estimated the transition to a low-carbon, efficient economy will cost only one percent of gross world product (GWP). By comparison, Lord Nicholas Stern said inaction could ultimately cost us as much as 30 percent of GWP. (In 2007, GWP was estimated at $54.62 trillion.)

Rep. Barton's final head-scratcher comes when he claims, "Nature doesn't seem to adjust to people as much as people adjust to nature." Tell that to the
dodo.

 


Suggestion: I would be more critical in invoking common denier arguments in an Integral discussion.  While true that many who are new to the public debate do not deserve the charge of "denier" because they are simply unfamiliar with what the science says (and are therefore expressing a healthy dose of scientific skepticism), there comes a point in time when someone who "claims" to be a skeptic begins to sound more like a "denier" than a skeptic.

The Skeptical Scientist has the following to say about scientific skepticism:

Scientific skepticism is a healthy thing. Scientists should always challenge themselves to expand their knowledge, improve their understanding and refine their theories. Yet this isn't what happens in global warming skepticism. Skeptics vigorously criticise any evidence that supports anthropogenic global warming and yet eagerly, even blindly embrace any argument, op-ed piece, blog or study that refutes global warming.

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Adaptation, poverty, compassion, and natural variations

“the poor will be the first and hardest hit with unmitigated global warming”. Well, then let’s help the poor so that they will be richer and won’t be hit hard. If there will be no more poor countries there won’t be mass migration. (You could say this is an amber argument of adaptation, and yes, we need also amber aspects. Perhaps I am an amber medievalist).

Bernhard,

I thought that you were in favor of a carbon tax so surely you are being a devil's advocate now?

I noticed several logical fallacies on many different levels, lines, and quadrants of development in the argument above.  Of course, if you are arguing from an amber perspective then you are purposefully being illogical.  Should this be the case, I'm not sure how to respond to such an argument from an Integral standpoint except to offer a very general response from various passages from the Bible (should the amber be a Christian fundamentalist).  

The first commandment ot humans (creation story, book of Genesis) commands stewardship over the earth and thus brings ecology into the heart of theology, but doesn't address related issues concerning poverty or immigration issues as addressed above.  Americans or Germans are not the "stewards" over illegal immigrants (who also human and thus stewards in their own right), so the Genesis story cannot be invoked as a valid truth from an amber perspective in this sense..

However, because adaptation is being invoked by an amber to oppose climate change legislation, my overall take is that stewardship from a Christian standpoint involves much more than mere "adaptation" would suggest, which is more apt for animals, plants, and all the "green herbs and creepy things that crawleth on the earth and the bees that buzzeth in the air," (or whatever).  Non-human life forms differ from humans in that they must passively adapt to "natural variations" in the environment because they lack the self-determination and free will to actively rule as regents over God's creation.  Since stewardship involves self-determination and freedom to govern His creation, "adaptation" would be inappropriate from a Christian standpoint as it would be in conflict with the Biblical teaching of stewardship, and would prevent humans from fulfilling God's first commandment to care for the earth and rule in God's place as regents over His creation.

Other passages more relevant to compassion would have to be cited in addition in order to address immigration and poverty issues.  

There's also another one that comes to mind (cannot remember which book) that warns of false prophets who falsely prophesize in the name of the Father to enter the kingdom of Heaven, whom Jesus warns will be turned away at Heaven's gate in spite of their outward devotion and loving kindness to His Father.  Sorry that I can't answer amber's objections more specifically.  Perhaps someone more familiar with theology can tackle this. 

At any rate, given that so many at Orange and Green centers of gravity also commit very similar logical fallacies (albeit for reasons other than the more ethnocentric concerns relating to anti-immigration, race, or nationality), logical arguments can be used to easily refute them.

“the poor will be the first and hardest hit with unmitigated global warming”. Well, then let’s help the poor so that they will be richer and won’t be hit hard. If there will be no more poor countries there won’t be mass migration. (You could say this is an amber argument of adaptation, and yes, we need also amber aspects. Perhaps I am an amber medievalist).

People well beyond amber often invoke poverty and third world countries against climate change legislation (for instance: Lomborg).  Such people are arguing more on grounds of cost-benefit analysis and spreading the dignity of modernity (Orange) or for human rights and on the grounds of pluralistic worldcentric compassion (Green).

I'll begin with the most obvious mistake first and list them by order of illogicality (and I'm not trying to belittle you by pointing to their "illogicality"; since I take it you are only being the devil's advocate and presenting other arguments).

1.  Elevating poor countries out of poverty does not reduce industrial carbon emissions and does nothing to avert anthropogenic climate change.

2.  Likewise, if there will be no more poor countries and a 2.5 C tipping point is allowed to trigger sudden and catastrophic climate change, "rich" countries that are closer to the equator will be the first and hardest hit.  Rich countries closer to the equator will likely suffer floods, droughts, water shortages, food shortages, climate wars, and mass migrations into northern latitudes.  Over a billion nouveau riche climate change refugees would abandon their prosperous fossil-burning factories to seek food and water in countries further north of their native country.   

3.  What makes such a person think that the money saved from avoiding costly (and unnecessary?) climate change legislation in first world countries would be diverted instead to philanthropy and humanitarian aid to help the needy and the poor in developing countries?  Does history support this Orange-Green assumption?  

Such an argument appears, at best, to be a misguided attempt to help the needy and poor based on a Green center of gravity via taxation for humanitarian relief and/or charity.  It is misguided because allocating national budgets or personal charity to humanitarian aid instead of mitigation may cost the world 30% of its GWP (or ~$54 trillion, according to the Stern report) rather than the modest 1% of GWP that investing in mitigation efforts would incur.  In terms of both cost-benefit analysis (Orange) and compassion (Green, see #2) in addition to preventive care (Teal and beyond), the only sensible option is mitigation, if given a choice between one or the other.  Given the dismal track record of various governments in rich countries (especially USA) to address the humanitarian needs of the poor in third world countries, the argument sounds more hollow and disingenuous than misguided. 

Or are you referring instead to the industrialists' promise that opting out of Cap and Trade (a free-market solution) and bringing coal-burning factories into developing countries would deliver these people from poverty and promote prosperity?  If so, please go back to #2 and tell me what their plans are for these workers once their factories are flooded out, famines hit, and they migrate by the several hundred millions (if not billions) to USA, Canada, Europe, and Siberia as climate change refugees? 

The above scenarios are not an exaggeration of the scientific claims of the consequences of unmitigated climate change.  If they are, the burden of proof is on the scientific skeptic to show how they might be.

I'll respond to other issues on a separate post.

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Magic-Red is the Underbelly of Mental-Rational; on certainty

One thing that I frequently encounter in these forums is the association of preconventional Red with postconventional Green Boomeritis (Wilber) and the dissociation of Magic-Red with Mental-Rational Orange-Green (Gebser).

While true that perhaps in its most deficient and exhausted stage (Boomeritis Green) the mental-rational structure appears to have lost all sense of value to regress to the pre-egoic narcissism of Red whereby the preconventional and postconventional appear to "team up" in alliance against the more conventional Orange and Amber (I think Gebser also predicted something similar toward the end of Mental-Rational structure as well, but emphasizing different aspects of Red and relating it toward the mental-rational structure as a whole), Orange is technically post-conventional as well.  Because of this it shares much in common with Red in its orientation toward quantity over quality, power, control, materialism, point-like consciousness, and external-relatedness.  All of these basic qualities of Orange are also qualities of Green as well, as both Orange and Green are mental-rational.

 The magic one-dimensional structure (Red) is fundamentally the underbelly of the entire three-dimensional mental-rational structure of consciousness (BOTH Orange and Green: not just Green!).

Whereas magic once occurred naturally in one-dimensional magic, the discovery of three-dimensional space, science, and technology in the mental-rational structure permitted it to reactivate a form of deficient magic in three-dimensional space.

Whereas magic seeks to control nature and so is externally-related or outwardly-oriented, mental-rational seeks to control SPACE so is also externally-related and outwardly-oriented.  Both are oriented upon power, control, and possession.

The blind fanaticism, recklessness, and lack of responsibility that you speak of of Red can be seen in all structures, but does not appear to be related to the so-called "alarmism" of James Hansen and those scientists who responsibly and conscientiously warned the public about man-made climate change when it was politically unpopular.  This appears to be a propaganda of the mental-rational because of its addiction to material things and its denial and dismissal of climate change in order to conduct "business as usual."

The colour red generally means "PROCEED WITH CAUTION!"  This means being "careful," not more reckless and irresponsible.  A recent study done on the colour red led some scientists to recommend the colour red as a background colour when doing online tax returns so as to be more careful when filing taxes.  This caution sign is then misinterpreted to mean "alarmism" and unnecessary panic maybe because of fire trucks.

You do realize that the conclusions reached by the Copenhagen Consensus is shared by only 10% of the scientists at M.I.T.?  The IPCC will include policy plans and complex positive feedback mechanism in its next report in 2014, so until then we will have to guage the opinions of Copenhagen Consensus with independent scientists and other economists who appear to be more reputable.  On the whole, they appear to overwhelmingly be in disagreement with the economic and scientific conclusions of the Copenhagen Consensus.

There is no reason to suppose why an international agreement on cap and trade would prevent countries from continuing to invest in R&D and humanitarian efforts.  This presents a false alternative for the benefit of industries to keep pollution free and to keep "business as usual."

The inability to connect climate change with poverty, hunger, and dehydration in poorer countries closer to the equator appears to be very short-sighted.  Their devaluation of mitigation efforts to the bottom of the list reflects a bias toward deregulation and the whole point of the report, not concern for the poor.

: "the science is still not precise enough to tell us exactly how bad it's going to get how fast.".And, "uncertainty means high risk".

True, climate science is still not precise enough to tell us exactly how bad it's going to get or how fast.  As with any science, it is not a crystal ball and doesn't deal in certainties or absolutes.  At best, it can provide only statistical probabilities.  It is likely to never be precise enough to tell us exactly anything (so this in itself is an unreasonable demand to make of climate science, which is constantly improving in precision but will never be "exact.").  Yet enough data exists to accept that the probabilities are very high that no international agreement on CO2 reduction will result in tragedies far greater than the poverty and famines that have existed in many isolated regions throughout the world since time immemorial.  There is enough data to also conclude that the economic risks of 1 or 2% of the global GDP via cap and trade agreement is far safer than risking 20-30% of a $54 trillion dollar global GDP with no agreement.  Thus, while true that

  1. climate science will never be precise enough to forecast anything with 100% absoluteness or conviction (this is more the role of religion) and that
  2. the role of positive feedback mechanisms is still not precisely understood in science (to put the quote above in context), it is also true that
  3. climate science is mature enough as a science to force immediate global policy action to reduce carbon emissions (with or without precise knowledge of the role of positive feedback); and that  

a growing number of scientists believe that feedback mechanisms make the situation far worse than what was previously estimated.  Therefore, the latest studies on positive feedbacks, as inconclusive as they are, reinforce and underscore the urgent plea by scientists for global action to reduce carbon emissions via global agreement: they do not undermine or makes less certain this fact.

Whether in the form of a carbon tax or cap and trade agreement, it will have to be an international agreement that is effectual on a global scale.  I am not expert on economics and foreign or domestic policy to know which is better.  My previous comment that favored a straight carbon tax was based on James Hansen's advice, which goes against many other scientists and economists I have read since. So I am no longer convinced that his advice is better than the current system of cap and trade.  And it is always possible to agree to such a system and correct its flaws later. 

More thoughts on certainty...

The only sciences that I am aware of that can guarantee exactness or precision are those that are confined strictly to the spatial world of abstraction and numeric quantity (such as "1+1=2"): not those fields concerned with spatio-temporal events involving time (let alone events in future time).  And no science, to my knowledge, is capable of quantifying degrees of quality ("how bad") in any exact numeric terms.  

Come to think of it, I'm not aware of any science, mode of inquiry, or methodology from any other quadrant that is capable of forecasting future spatio-events with exact precision.  They can provide a range of probabilities and that is best that they will ever be able to do.  Bertrand Russell has a wonderful essay on this.  For example: "There is a 99.999999999999% certainty that the sun will rise tomorrow."  The science even today isn't precise enough to tell us exactly (with 100% certainty) whether the sun will rise tomorrow.  Yet the probability is very high based on scientific data, statistics, collective wisdom, and personal recollections of previous sunrises, although memories are notoriously fallible and we can never be certain until it "happens."  Even then, we can't say exactly ("with absolute, 100% certainty") that it really "happened," whether empirically or otherwise, but still can be fairly confident that we have not all imagined it collectively.

 

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scientific skepticism

In response to the Skeptical Scientist's claim that

“Skeptics vigorously criticise any evidence that supports anthropogenic global warming and yet eagerly, even blindly embrace any argument, op-ed piece, blog or study that refutes global warming,”
 
Firstly, I find the statement written by the "Skeptical Scientist" to be valid.  In my study of the public debate on climate change, there is a difference between a global warming skeptic and a global warming denier.  I have personally encountered both kinds.
 
Those so-called "skeptics" who vigorously criticize any evidence that supports anthropogenic global warming and yet eagerly, even blindly embrace any argument, op-ed piece, blog or study that attempts to refute global warming have earned themselves the dubious title of "denier," not "skeptic": because their arguments do not indicate any modicum of skepticism or doubt whatsoever in their own so-called "skeptical" positions.  These "skeptics" do not deserve the title of "skeptic"  but "denier."  Especially when they uncritically accept any argument that appears to be in opposition the consensus view on global warming and fanatically defend them and mix up science with ideology.  I am highly skeptical of such "skeptics," who seem to have arrived at a definitive conclusion denying man-made climate change while simultaneously denying that they are "deniers." 
 
A true skeptic in the scientific sense does not blindly embrace any op-ed piece or argument that attempts to refute global warming but will instead be genuinely doubtful or skeptical toward either side of the public debate, yet is open to being persuaded either way.  Such people are much more willing to say "I don't know" whenever they don't know or they're not sure.  A skeptic may either have an inquiring mind and be in honest pursuit of scientific truth or may otherwise be uninterested in scientific inquiry and merely calls himself/herself a skeptic out of intellectual laziness and convenience.  Whereas the skeptics of this paragraph are honestly skeptical or are otherwise indifferent, the so-called "skeptics" from the previous paragraph cannot be placed into this category so are referred to as deniers.
 
 
 
 
You wrote that:
 
This is first tier, on both sides.
 
When you say "This" (in "This is first tier, on both sides"), "This" and "both sides" can be read in two different ways: is it in reference to
 
a) the "skeptical scientist's" statement up above vs. global warming deniers whom he criticizes or to
 
b) those "believers" in anthropogenic climate change who blindly embrace the claims of the scientific consensus and vigorously criticize any evidence that contradicts anthropogenic global warming vs. global warming deniers? 
First tier isn't necessarily a bad thing in and of itself.  Science, after all, is typically first tier.  So while I agree with you that
 
  1. "for" vs. "against" debates on global warming are definitely "first tier" (why I left the last one, "Truth Is Not Enough") and that
  2. a scientific discussion, generally speaking, is first tier; and that
  3. there is no indication whatsoever of integral awareness in the statement from the Skeptical Scientist,

Those reasons or items above, while themselves perhaps partial and characteristic of "first tier," do not warrant negative critique in and of themselves.  All humans, even Integral, can often exhibit such qualities, express such partialities, or engage in such quadrants or discussions while simultaneously having a cognitive line or center of gravity that transcends and includes "first tier."  The very nature of science demands that it be "first tier," partial, stubbornly inflexible and one-sided toward a certain "truth" because the physical laws appear to operate the "same way" for everyone irrespective of their scientific, political, or philosophical viewpoint of it. 

So while I do agree that blindly embracing any argument--whether for or against--deserves calling out as one-sided, partial and first tier in a negative sense, I seldom if ever encounter a science blog or online debate in which the writer or person who defends the scientific consensus position did so "blindly."  It takes a bit of preparation to become acquainted with the consensus view on climate change to opine on any details at length; mere "belief" in global warming because one is a Democrat won't cut it in a scientific debate or discussion.  It's very difficult to argue the consensus position on climate change "blindly" without doing so and looking like an idiot.  I'm sure it's been done before, but I haven't really encountered it online.  So I would say that while it is possible to find

b) those "believers" in anthropogenic climate change who blindly embrace the claims of the scientific consensus and vigorously criticize any evidence that contradicts anthropogenic global warming,

I do not see this as a phenomenon occurring on the anthropogenic climate change side of the public debate. I'm sure that there are such fanatics in existence on both sides, but it appears to be a phenomenon largely confined to the so-called "skeptics" or deniers of anthropogenic climate change who blindly recycle discredited scientific arguments, embrace the claims of dissenting scientists, fringe science, or pseudo-science, and ignore any evidence that contradicts their contrarian positions.  I therefore do not see your point as a valid critique for both sides, if that is what you're saying. 

This is not to say that there are no factual errors, discrepancies, or contradictions in various understandings of the scientific position (which I've done on occasion) in those who agree with the consensus view.  Of course, there are simply because there are various degrees of familiarity with climate change: but not to the extent that these errors would be regarded as uninformed or "blind" as is all too often the case in these denier arguments.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2009/feb/27/climate-change-deniers-sceptics

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Talking to irrational arguments makes me feel crazy

To conclude this comment: I don't believe that people who warn of climate change and possible catastrophy are necessarily 1st tier, and if I wrote something which could be understood this way, I apologize. But don't you think that sceptics are 1st tier and should write on their own place but not in the open forum? In the other thread you wrote something like this, and I answered there to your comment.

Bernhard:

I do not regard you as "first tier" but "integral."

I do not regard you as "denier" but a "skeptic."

I do not think that skeptics are necessarily first tier.  You are a skeptic, yet you are definitely well beyond first-tier.  Deniers, on the other hand, tend to have an absolutist and irrational streak about them so do not come across as being rational.

An integral discussion on climate change should not marginalize deniers, but we should also recognize that time spent responding to them does not make for a rational discussion, let alone integral.  Not to be "elitist" or anything. 

They can still post all they want, of course.

By contrast, discussions with both rational and integral skeptics can be an invaluable asset to an Integral community.  

It was my understanding that the State of the World Forum intends to invite Integral Life members first prior to opening the forum to participation by a wider public.  If so, I thought it was to set a certain tone or quality of discussion.

As I said to someone else:

It was weird because at first I thought I was having a dialogue with a skeptic who was skeptical yet nonetheless, "integrally-minded" (assuming that anyone who is familiar with KW must be).  Then I discovered that this may not necessarily be the case.  But at the very least, I thought, the discussion could be rational so I continued the discussion on the level of rational.

It took several exchanges later before it dawned on me that I wasn't even dealing with someone who is rational, when the discussion turned to the Power Elite and plasma cosmology.  That's when I decided to end the discussion.  It took a while for me to "catch on"...  I guess I'm somewhat mind-blind when comes to understanding human nature.

Yes, I think the best way to respond to such a situation is to ignore it.  Not to marginalize anyone, but if members are going to apply integral tools to explore other dimensions of climate change and how to effectively resolve it, the quality of discussion must eventually move beyond the simple scientific debates with Stage 1 global warming deniers.

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"moderate" vs. "extremist" is first tier dual opposition,...

Well, deniers (and believers) who argue mainly from a prerational stage of consciousness should be put in their place because they are the ones who create polarization. Don Beck said this, referring to the Palestinian/Israeli conflict, on a SD seminar on extremism in 2005 in Frankfurt. He said too that on both sides it is the job of the moderates to put the “own” extremists in their place. So in the case of climate war it would be e.g. my job to educate (or if necessary marginalize) deniers who come from prerational stages. If you try it, you make things worse because they will strenghten their position and the polarization will increase. Accordingly, it would be e.g. your job to educate (and if necessary marginalize) believers and alarmists, if they argue from prerational stages. If I would try it I would make things worse because they would strenghten their position and the polarization would increase.
 
I agree with what Beck is saying given the extremism that exists on both "sides" of the never-ending Palestinian/Israeli conflict (i.e., Hamas vs. Zionist orthodoxy Neo-Cons).  Crazies do indeed exist on both poles of circular illogicality requiring at very minimum, moderators of at least rational Orange and Green centers of gravity to stand somewhere on an imaginary line drawn "in between" the two polar complimentarities of a circle to act as dual oppositionals to each other.  Whereas Orange is center-right and can moderate the Neo-Con Amber Zionists on one polar complimentarity, Green is center-left and can moderate Amber/Red Hamas on the other polar extreme. 
 
But the debate is actually occurring between the more moderate Orange and Green centers of gravity more so than between the fighting extremists (who for the most part are irrational amber or pre-rational red so cannot be regarded as being reasonable enough to reason, so fight instead).  So who will moderate the moderates? Ultimately, both polarity and dual opposition will have to be superceded by non-dual integrality, which is not a "position" or point in space on a three-dimensional coordinate system but is a manifestation and perception of the whole. It is more moderate and reasonable than that of Orange or Green, yet does not occupy any "point" or position in space as is the case for Orange, Green, or Centrist: all three of which are merely positions which can be located on a spatial coordinate system so cannot be in reference to the whole.
 
 "Extremists" refer to the Amber/Red elements on either end of the political spectrum.  Ultimately, however, the conflict will not be resolved by the ongoing thesis:antithesis duality as offered by Orange and Green; yet an either/or solution as proposed by dualistic Orange vs. Green are infinitely better than the bloodshed and extremism as proposed by either end, and so in this sense "moderate" is valid. 
 
I'm not sure how meaningful it is to apply the "moderate" rule of thumb to an Integral-level public discussion on climate change, since conceptions of "a moderate" may vary depending on one's perspective on climate change.  The first thing perhaps to agree upon is that both a denier and an "alarmist" (and "believer," to a lesser degree, if belief is based strictly on "blind faith" in science) represent extremist positions in that both stances suggest an element of irrationality (Amber) or pre-rationality (Red). 
 
As a skeptic differs from a climate change denier, so too does a proponent of the scientific consensus on anthropogenic climate change differ from a "believer/alarmist."  Neither should be reduced to the other.
 
Whereas a proponent of the scientific consensus on anthropogenic climate change may see his or her view as more "moderate" and reasonable than a skeptic based on the available scientific evidence or data, an environmental skeptic may see his or her view as more "moderate" and reasonable than a proponent for the fact that the skeptic is neither a denier nor a "believer/alarmist" or a "proponent" of the consensus but is somewhere "in between."  At any rate, no-one likes to be labeled as an "extremist" whether "for" or "against" climate change legislation--which brings me to yet another point: ideas which pit "moderate" vs. "extreme" and "for vs. "against" in a dual opposition are inadequate for integral, although they can offer some assistance in moderating the extremes of both ends.
 
If the environmental skeptic believes that he or she is more suitable for moderating the denier (and that the proponent of the consensus view is more suitable for moderating the believer/alarmist), then for the sake of integrality, the skeptic should go and moderate the denier instead of leaving the job of moderation or critique to proponents or alarmists. 
 
I don't see any skeptics coming out and putting deniers in "their place."  So while a wonderful concept, I don't see it happening.  Is there a bias?
 
The skeptic need not know all the science behind climate change to inform the denier that the Power Elite or some new exotic physics (i.e., "Plasma Cosmology") have little, if anything whatsoever, to do with climate change.  So my challenge to you, as a skeptic, is to do that.

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Thinking independently: is it possible?

It's a conspiracy: I know this for a fact because I'm an independent thinker! ;-P

Lol...  I agree with your comment on religion.  I.e.: in spite of belonging to two different "religions" on climate change, a very high probability exists that both Lomborg and I would find the so-called "skeptical" (denier) arguments posted on "Truth Is Not Enough" as uninformed and irrational (or pre-rational).

However, a word of caution: neither Lomborg nor I are climate experts.  Lomborg is a political scientist and I'm an unemployed astronaut of innerspace which means that we're nothing but amateurs when it comes to various issues on climate change.  So while true that both of us are independent thinkers on a rational level, neither of us are independent thinkers when it comes to the science behind climate change.   

Few, even at Integral, can claim to to reach an independent conclusion on a scientific matter of this kind.  We rely on the expert opinions of others.  

My interpretation of a "skeptic" and "denier" differs from many, such as in the use of "denier" in the articles below which appear on the whole to be less forgiving than my interpretation.  My impression is that you are a skeptic who has an open mind and is genuinely in search of scientific (and other quadrant) truth, based on everything you've posted: but not a denier who thinks they already "know" the truth and are just trying to correct science and explain the truth to the rest of the world. 

So if you can overlook the semantics, the following is a list of denier and/or skeptical arguments from "Global Warming Denier Patterns."  None of them mention poor people in third world countries nor say "we will lift a finger for a carbon tax" or "we will lift a finger for a combination of R&D, mitigation, and adaptation efforts (but only if it will cost .05% of the GDP, and without an international agreement)" (e.g., "let the market and country decide," the Copenhagen Consensus) so may not even reflect your own perspective.  The denier arguments on "Truth Is Not Enough" are Position 1 and sometimes Position 2.  Feel free to offer your own "position" of skepticism using those as a template and modifying them however you see fit to give me a better idea where you are coming from.

 

Source:

http://www.helium.com/items/194604-global-warming-denial-patterns

Position 1:

> We won't lift a finger to stop climate change because
> Climate change isn't happening.


Position 2: OK,

> climate change is happening,
> but we won't lift a finger to stop it because
> climate change has nothing to do with human activity.


Position 3: OK, OK,

> climate change is happening,
> it's happening as a direct result as human activity,
> but we won't lift a finger to stop it because
> climate change is a good thing

Position 4: OK, OK,

> climate change is happening,
> it's happening as a direct result of human activity,
> it's a bad thing,
> but we won't lift a finger to stop it because
> the markets will sort it all out on their own.

Position 5: OK, OK,

> climate change is happening,
> it's happening as a direct result of human activity,
> it's a bad thing,
> the markets won't be able to sort it out on their own,
> but we won't lift a finger to stop it because
> it will cost more to stop it than it would just to live with it.

 

Position 6 OK, OK, OK,

> climate change is happening,
> it's happening as a direct result of human activity,
> it's a bad thing,
> the markets won't be able to sort it out on their own,
> it will cost more to live with it than it would to stop it,
> but we won't lift a finger to stop it because
> it's not us, it's those bloody Chinese!


Position 7 OK, OK, OK!

> climate change is happening,
> it's happening as a direct result of human activity,
> it's a bad thing,
> the markets won't be able to sort it out on their own,
> it will cost more to live with it than it would to stop it,
> it's our responsibility as much as anyone else's
> but we won't lift a finger to stop it because
> it's already too late.

 

Another thing: I'm all for independent thinking, but a vast difference exists between a scientific skeptic and an amateur skeptic.  My personal take is that unless one is qualified to be a skeptic, that one should simply trust the expertise of the consensus. 

 

Dot Earth | New York Times blog


August 14, 2008, 9:49 am — Updated: 5:35 pm -->

JPL on Global Gamble, Harvard’s Holdren on Stages of Climate Denial

By Andrew C. Revkin

Climate scientists keep testing that turbulent world between data and society — an arena far less safe than the laboratory or field camp, where a researcher becomes a potential target for both darts and laurels from those threatened or bolstered by his or her views. One new experiment is a nascent blog at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory, with a fresh contribution by Josh Willis, whose work on ocean temperature trends has been discussed here. Dr. Willis says those who grasp at short-term wiggles in ocean or atmospheric conditions as evidence of global warming or cooling are like gamblers seduced by a hot streak into thinking they can beat the house.

Another scientist has tried to point out the stages of climate skepticism that he says many high-profile global warming critics have exhibited sequentially as time passes. John P. Holdren, the head of Harvard’s Program on Science, Technology and Public Policy and a longtime advocate of prompt curbs in greenhouse gases, sent me a note about the reaction he received after the Boston Globe and International Herald Tribune published his opinion piece earlier this month asserting that “climate change skeptics are dangerously wrong.” (Disclosure: Both papers are owned by The Times’ parent company; keep in mind that opinion columns are sealed off from the news pages).

The centerpiece of the article was Dr. Holdren’s description of the evolving arguments put forward by public figures, including some scientists, challenging climate science as they fight restrictions on greenhouse gases:

Long-time observers of public debates about environmental threats know that skeptics about such matters tend to move, over time, through three stages. First, they tell you you’re wrong and they can prove it. (In this case, “Climate isn’t changing in unusual ways or, if it is, human activities are not the cause.”) Then they tell you you’re right but it doesn’t matter. (”OK, it’s changing and humans are playing a role, but it won’t do much harm.”) Finally, they tell you it matters but it’s too late to do anything about it. (”Yes, climate disruption is going to do some real damage, but it’s too late, too difficult, or too costly to avoid that, so we’ll just have to hunker down and suffer.”)

All three positions are represented among the climate-change skeptics who infest talk shows, Internet blogs, letters to the editor, op-ed pieces, and cocktail-party conversations. The few with credentials in climate-change science have nearly all shifted in the past few years from the first category to the second, however, and jumps from the second to the third are becoming more frequent. All three factions are wrong, but the first is the worst.

Read the rest at the links above. [UPDATE, 5:30 p.m.: John Christy, one of the scientists publicly questioning the evidence for dangerous human-caused climate change, responds below.] After the article ran, Dr. Holdren received a stream of “nastygrams” and wrote a short followup commentary, which has not been published but which he agreed I could post here:


Climate-Change Skeptics Revisited, by John P. Holdren

I did not expect that my op-ed in Monday’s Boston Globe, to which the editors gave the title “Convincing the Climate-Change Skeptics”, would actually convince many skeptics. It was aimed more at reinforcing the resolve of the majority in the public and the policy-making community who, betting on the scientific consensus, are ready to move forward with a serious approach to dealing with the problem but are being slowed down by the ill-founded skepticism of a minority. That is why my own title for the piece was “Climate-Change Skeptics Are Dangerously Wrong”.

I am being castigated by many respondents for resorting to reference to authority rather then providing substantive responses to the specific arguments of climate-change deniers. I suggest that this criticism is in part based on a misunderstanding of what is possible within the length constraint of an op-ed piece. The ”top ten” arguments employed by the relatively few deniers with credentials in any aspect of climate-change science (which arguments include “the sun is doing it”, “Earth’s climate was changing before there were people here”, “climate is changing on Mars but there are no SUVs there”, “the Earth hasn’t been warming since 1998”, “thermometer records showing heating are contaminated by the urban-heat-island effect”, “satellite measurements show cooling rather than warming”) have all been shown in the serious scientific literature to be wrong or irrelevant, but explaining their defects requires at least a paragraph or two for each one.

This cannot be done in the 700 words of an op-ed piece. But there are plenty of other forums where it can be…and has been. Persuasive refutations are readily available not only at a high scientific level in (among others) the reports of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (ipcc.ch), the UN Scientific Expert Group on Climate Change and Sustainable Development (unfoundation.org/SEG/), the US National Academy of Sciences (dels.nas.edu/globalchange), the US National Center for Atmospheric Research (ucar.edu), and the UK Meteorological Office (met-office.gov.uk) — as well as on a myriad of websites run by serious climatologists (e.g., columbia.edu/~jeh1/, stephenschneider.stanford.edu, realclimate.org ) — but also in a form boiled down for the intelligent layperson by organizations skilled in scientific communication, such as the BBC (news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/629/629/7074601.stm) , the New Scientist magazine (http://environment.newscientist.com/climatemyths), and the promising new Climate Central organization (climatecentral.org) featuring The Weather Channel’s climatologist, Heidi Cullen. Any skeptic who actually wants to know what’s wrong with the standard deniers’ arguments can easily find out.

I provided all the above-mentioned references and more in a longer essay on climate-change skepticism that I wrote in June in response to requests for an explanation of the apparent continuing influence of deniers in the U.S. policy process, and from which I abstracted the op-ed I submitted to The Globe. The references wouldn’t fit within the op-ed word limit without losing too much else that I thought needed to be said.

Even more regrettably, I agreed to a further shortening of what I submitted by the editors at The Globe. I regret agreeing to it because it’s clear (from the responses I’m receiving) that the resulting omission of a sentence about the value of skepticism in science left the impression that I am unaware of the positive role that healthy skepticism has played in the scientific enterprise over the centuries. The omitted sentence was in the middle of a passage that in the original read as follows (omission italicized):

All three factions are wrong, but the first is the worst. We should really call them “deniers” rather than “skeptics”, because they are giving the venerable tradition of skepticism a bad name. Their arguments, such as they are, suffer from two huge deficiencies.

As my original reference to “the venerable tradition of skepticism” indicates, I am in fact well aware of its valuable and indeed fundamental role in the practice of science. Skeptical views, clearly stated and soundly based, tend to promote healthy re-examination of premises, additional ways to test hypotheses and theories, and refinement of explanations and arguments. And it does happen from time to time – although less often than most casual observers suppose – that views initially held only by skeptics end up overturning and replacing what had been the “mainstream” view.

Appreciation for this positive role of scientific skepticism, however, should not lead to uncritical embrace of the deplorable practices characterizing what much of has been masquerading as appropriate skepticism in the climate-science domain. These practices include refusal to acknowledge the existence of large bodies of relevant evidence (such as the proposition that there is no basis for implicating carbon dioxide in the global-average temperature increases observed over the past century); the relentless recycling of arguments in public forums that have long since been persuasively discredited in the scientific literature (such as the attribution of the observed global temperature trends to urban-heat island effects or artifacts of statistical method); the pernicious suggestion that not knowing everything about a phenomenon (such as the role of cloudiness in a warming world) is the same as knowing nothing about it; and the attribution of the views of thousands of members of the mainstream climate-science community to “mass hysteria” or deliberate propagation of a “hoax”.

The purveying of propositions like these by a few scientists who do or should know better –and their parroting by amateur skeptics who lack the scientific background or the motivation to figure out what’s wrong with them – are what I was inveighing against in the op-ed and will continue to inveigh against. The activities of these folks, whether witting in the case of the scientists or unwitting in the case of their gullible adherents, have nothing to do with respectable scientific skepticism.

It also needs to be understood by publics and policy makers alike that, while it can never be guaranteed that a mainstream scientific position will not be overturned by new data or insight, the likelihood of this occurring gets smaller as the size and coherence of the body of data and analysis supporting the mainstream position get larger. The lines of evidence and analysis supporting the mainstream position on climate change are diverse and robust – embracing a huge body of direct measurements by a variety of methods in a wealth of locations on the Earth’s surface and from space, solid understanding of the basic physics governing how energy flow in the atmosphere interacts with greenhouse gases, insights derived from the reconstruction of causes and consequences of millions of years of natural climatic variations, and the results of computer models that are increasingly capable of reproducing the main features of Earth’s climate with and without human influences.

The public and the policy makers who are supposed to act on the public’s behalf are constantly having to make choices in the absence of complete certainty about threats and outcomes. If they are smart, they make those choices on the basis of judgments about probability: Which position is more likely to be right? On climate change, the probability is high that the scientific mainstream is right about its main conclusions, even if all the details are not yet pinned down. Those main conclusions are that climate is changing in ways unusual against the backdrop of natural variability; that human activities are responsible for most of this unusual change; that significant harm to human well-being is already occurring as a result; and that far larger –- perhaps catastrophic — damages will ensue if serious remedial action is not started soon.

The rationale for calling the attention of the public and policy makers -– the audiences for an op-ed — to the number, diversity, and distinction of scientists and scientific organizations embracing these conclusions is to inform them of the extent to which this is the view of the most qualified people and groups that have studied the matter. Given the unavoidable fact that most people do not have the training (or the time) to reach an independent conclusion on a scientific matter of this kind, knowing where most of the people who do have the training and who have taken the time come down on the matter is the best guide available on where the public and its policy makers should place their bets.

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positive feedbacks

Another thing to consider about the Medieval Warm Period is that there were no human-caused feedback circles until the start of the Industrial Period (with the exception of forest fires, perhaps). Industrial greenhouse gases were nonexistent.  According to ice core samples dating back to 800,000 years, CO2 emission increases (which occur during interglacial periods) were never above 3.6 ppm per century.  These increases were always followed by CO2 declines during glacial periods to offset them.  Beginning in the 18th century this changed dramatically, and CO2 emission increases have been 100 ppm per century and rising.  This is 20 (or 33 or 36--citation needed) times the highest the rate of increase in CO2 in 800,000 years.


 

Scientists: Pace of Climate Change Exceeds Estimates

By Kari Lydersen
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, February 15, 2009; Page A03

CHICAGO, Feb. 14 -- The pace of global warming is likely to be much faster than recent predictions, because industrial greenhouse gas emissions have increased more quickly than expected and higher temperatures are triggering self-reinforcing feedback mechanisms in global ecosystems, scientists said Saturday.

"We are basically looking now at a future climate that's beyond anything we've considered seriously in climate model simulations," Christopher Field, founding director of the Carnegie Institution's Department of Global Ecology at Stanford University, said at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science.

Field, a member of the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, said emissions from burning fossil fuels since 2000 have largely outpaced the estimates used in the U.N. panel's 2007 reports. The higher emissions are largely the result of the increased burning of coal in developing countries, he said.


Unexpectedly large amounts of carbon dioxide are being released into the atmosphere as the result of "feedback loops" that are speeding up natural processes. Prominent among these, evidence indicates, is a cycle in which higher temperatures are beginning to melt the arctic permafrost, which could release hundreds of billions of tons of carbon dioxide and methane into the atmosphere, said several scientists on a panel at the meeting.

The permafrost holds 1 trillion tons of carbon, and as much as 10 percent of that could be released this century, Field said. Along with carbon dioxide melting permafrost releases methane, which is 25 times more potent a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide.

"It's a vicious cycle of feedback where warming causes the release of carbon from permafrost, which causes more warming, which causes more release from permafrost," Field said.

Evidence is also accumulating that terrestrial and marine ecosystems cannot remove as much carbon from the atmosphere as earlier estimates suggested, Field said.

In the oceans, warmer weather is driving stronger winds that are exposing deeper layers of water, which are already saturated with carbon and not as able to absorb as much from the atmosphere. The carbon is making the oceans more acidic, which also reduces their ability to absorb carbon.

On land, rising carbon dioxide levels had been expected to boost plant growth and result in greater sequestration of carbon dioxide. As plants undergo photosynthesis to draw energy from the sun, carbon is drawn out of the atmosphere and trapped in the plant matter. But especially in northern latitudes, this effect may be offset significantly by the fact that vegetation-covered land absorbs much more of the sun's heat than snow-covered terrain, said scientists on the panel.

Earlier snowmelt, the shrinking arctic ice cover and the northward spread of vegetation are causing the Northern Hemisphere to absorb, rather than reflect, more of the sun's energy and reinforce the warming trend.

While it takes a relatively long time for plants to take carbon out of the atmosphere, that carbon can be released rapidly by wildfires, which contribute about a third as much carbon to the atmosphere as burning fossil fuels, according to a paper Field co-authored.

Fires such as the recent deadly blazes in southern Australia have increased in recent years, and that trend is expected to continue, Field said. Warmer weather, earlier snowmelt, drought and beetle infestations facilitated by warmer climates are all contributing to the rising number of fires linked to climate change. Across large swaths of the United States and Canada, bark beetles have killed many mature trees, making forests more flammable. And tropical rain forests that were not susceptible to forest fires in the past are likely to become drier as temperatures rise, growing more vulnerable.

Preventing deforestation in the tropics is more important than in northern latitudes, the panel agreed, since lush tropical forests sequester more carbon than sparser northern forests. And deforestation in northern areas has benefits, since larger areas end up covered in exposed, heat-reflecting snow.

Many scientists and policymakers are advocating increased incentives for preserving tropical forests, especially in the face of demand for clearing forest to grow biofuel crops such as soy. Promoting biofuels without also creating forest-preservation incentives would be "like weatherizing your house and deliberately keeping your windows open," said Peter Frumhoff, chief of the Union of Concerned Scientists' climate program. "It's just not a smart policy."

Field said the U.N. panel's next assessment of Earth's climate trends, scheduled for release in 2014, will for the first time incorporate policy proposals. It will also include complicated models of interconnected ecosystem feedbacks.

The panel's last report noted that preliminary knowledge of such feedbacks suggested that an additional 100 billion to 500 billion tons of greenhouse gas emissions would have to be prevented in the next century to avoid dangerous global warming. Currently, about 10 billion tons of carbon are emitted each year.


 

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Myth: Democrats support good climate policy; Republicans oppose it

I have some nice things to say about Republicans, but none of it will be evident until the very last line. 
 
Not to suggest that you are a Republican, Bernhard (you're not even American!).  But your views on climate change do not appear to be typical of most Europeans I've encountered.  While you strike me as integral and oriented on wholeness, your stance on climate change relies too heavily on a single source of questionable value, so is partial.
 
 
Well, let's see:
 
Sometimes I don’t lift a finger to stop climate change because I don’t drive a SUV (I just hate them). I drive a relatively low-carbon Toyota Corolla and I like to cycle.
 
Excellent.

There were no times in history where climate change wasn't happening.
 
True enough so far as it goes...
 
I assume you mean "climate change" (by natural variations) and not "anthropogenic climate change," which has not been happening since time immemorial as the statement might suggest. 
 
Otherwise, you are capitally correct to point out that climate has always changed changed due to natural variations (i.e., Milankovitch cycles, vegetation and oxygenation, natural greenhouse gases, oceans, precipitation, weather patterns, distance of the moon, volcanoes, etc.)
 
Current climate change has to do with human activity (but I am not sure).
 
The latest IPCC assessment, based on thousands of peer-reviewed studies, reports that human action is "very likely" to be the cause of the current global warming, meaning greater than 90%. 
 
An approach based on an Integral framework would be to adopt the highest stance in every quadrant, zone, or methodology.  For instance: in matters of climate science, it is best to consult the IPCC rather than economists or statasticians.  As most smart people do, Integral defers to the collective wisdom of leading scientists in matters of a scientific kind, leading economists in matters of an economic kind, leading presidents in matters of a presidential kind, and so on. 
 
Unless one has a specialty in the field or is trying to re-invent the wheel, it is best to trust the collective wisdom of experts who are relevant to the field.  This doesn't mean that one can be 100% certain that the experts are telling the absolute truth.  However, when a consensus is reached among a respected panel of experts that states definitively that more than a "90% probability exists" that something is very likely, it is reasonable, if not integral, to go with "very likely" and to discard the "not sure" as obsolete thinking, especially when 97% of all climate scientists agree and have discarded "not sure" as obsolete, on which the consensus, and decision of the panel of experts is based.
 
"Not sure" could be in reference to any probability between 0-99%.   While such uncertainty was once existed among climate scientists, it is no longer current.  So instead of saying, "But I am not sure," a more integral approach would say, "The current global warming is very likely caused by human activity, meaning over 90%."
 
And considering that "very likely" is not yet a 100% certainty, an environmental skeptic can agree with what the science says without having to comprimise on his or her commitment to scientific or amateur skepticism.
 
Climate change can have good and bad effects, it depends on its extent. Very strong climate change is very bad but I don’t believe it will occur.
 
Climate change can be a good or bad thing if left to natural forces and variations.  All things considered, however, an Integral perspective would have to jettison the idea that human-caused climate change can have good effects.  Of course, "good" is a subjective and relative term but has limited value when confined to partialities such as future prospects of growing grapes in Sweden or to vacationing in a more temperate spot such as Siberia's drunken forests.  Integral is not confined to partialities but it is a perception of the whole.
 
The IPCC conclusion in 2007 is that the consequences of unmitigated climate change are bad elsewhere but effect people in different ways in different parts of the world, but mostly bad.  More recently, numerous scientists are coming out to say that the consequences are "very bad."  The leading spokesperson for the IPCC confirms this as well, confirming that the IPCC had underestimated to be conservative, and warns that governments have four years left to agree on implementing policies on a global scale to be effective in time.   
 
However, if you do not believe that sudden catastrophic climate change can occur, you either have faith in humanity to stop it (bless your soul) or you think that the experts themselves are mistaken in their view.  In which case, you are making an expert judgment based on an independent conclusion of a scientific matter. Please clarify.
 
 
I am quite sure that the markets will sabotage it unless we develop efficient alternative energies.
 
 
 
Based on most climate experts, all efforts will be sabotaged unless we address the the more immediate concern of CO2 reduction. 
 
By "the markets," are you referring to free market capitalism, or to the carbon market created by cap and trade?
 
It is not possible to stop it but perhaps to mitigate it. I guess mitigation will cost less as it would just to live with it, but here I am absolutely not sure, I rely on Lomborg who is statistician at an economic school.
 
Yes, it is a safe bet that mitigation will cost less than dealing with it.
 
An Integral approach would be to include scientific opinion in addition to the Stern Review into an Integral framework, since Stern is the most recognized and most comprehensive economic study on climate change done to date.  It is far more comprehensive than the Copenhagen Consensus, and less ideologically-driven.
 
However, in light of more recent studies done on positive feedbacks and changes that are outpacing predictions made by most computer climate models, many economists consider Stern's report to now be obsolete and too conservative.  Stern's recommendation for a 1% of world GDP investment of mitigation (via cap and trade) has since been revised in 2008 to 2%. 
 
Yet in spite of the inadequacies above, compared to Stern, the Copenhagen Consensus appears to be even more so.  In all, it appears to be only a partial perspective composed only of economists who were hand-selected by Lomborg on the basis of their unfavorable opinion toward Kyoto, who get together an provide an economic forecast which is now considered obsolete by many economists.  Furthermore, it is based on scientific data that is considered obsolete by most scientists. This is not integral.
 
The Copenhagen Consensus is criticized for using economists who do not specialize in development.  In addition, it is criticized for placing climate change, the most serious concern according to most scientists and many other economists, at the bottom of the list of priorities because it considers mitigation too expensive to tackle and better spent on other projects.  According to the Stern report, a minimum of 1% investment of global GDP is necessary and the cost of 1% is preferable to the cost of 20-30% loss of global GDP (of $54 trillion) with no agreement.  Carbon tax may or may not be more effective as Lomborg (I suspect), Exxon CEO, and James Hansen contend, but it does not appear to be politically realistic to implement instead of cap and trade the more I look into it.  For Integral, we also have to consider what is realistic.
 
It is good to challenge one's position by getting many and varied perspectives.  I do it all the time.  You may be surprised to find, as I consistently find, that with respect to climate change, most experts arrive at different conclusions from those made by Lomborg and by the Copenhagen Consensus.  Certainly Integral may consider Lomborg's skepticism toward the scientific consensus and dislike of Kyoto to see what, if anything, can be included into an overall Integral Ecology, but must ultimately not be confined to these experts alone.
 
Since many economists consider the Stern Review's 1% of global GDP investment to be inadequate if not, obsolete, in light of recent scientific studies noting faster changes, the .05% of GDP, as Copenhagen Consensus recommends, is even more obsolete.  In addition, the Copenhagen Consensus bases its analysis on a previous scientific opinion that a concentration of 550 ppm ceiling is safe and that a 3.0 C temperature rise is safe.  This contradicts the IPCC's 2007 recommendation, which warns that concentrations of CO2 above 450 ppm is unsafe.  This also contradicts more recent scientific evidence, which reveal that the rate of atmospheric changes has outpaced the projected rate of change as predicted by most climate model studies. 
 
The only way to account for these faster changes is to include numerous complex feedback mechanisms in addition to increasing rises in industrial CO2 emssion, which alone cannot account for these more recent changes.  Such feedback mechanisms as ocean acidification, melting sea ice, deforestation, methane release from melting permafrost, and precipitation are all working to amplify present greenhouse gases such that anything above a 2.0-2.5 C temperature rise is thought to be sufficient to trigger a sudden and catastrophic climate change, given all the positive feedbacks now in effect.  Because of this, Hansen, et al., want to set a ceiling of 350 ppm.  An Integral standpoint would also want to consider the latest scientific information and not reject it out of hand.
 
Something that would be admirable for Lomborg to do would be to change his stance that "yeah, global warming is human-caused due to CO2 emissions, but things are not as bad as they say."  He would definitely earn my respect.  It would be interesting to see how his perspective changes in light of newer information.  He would earn the respect of many more people as well, but I'm sure that he is paid very well to be the front line skeptic and spokesperson against cap and trade.
 
The Chinese will have an important role but they are not rich, therefore we need cheap solar panels.
 
Indeed, China said that it will not adopt cap and trade unless the U.S. does whereas India has stated that it has no plans to enter an agreement.  I suspect that with increasing pressure, India would have to cave in to an international agreement to set a ceiling on its carbon emissions if everyone else joined. 
 
As for cheap solar panels, Lomborg says it will be 2050 before they are cheap enough and apparently thinks that there's merely a slow and steady linear progression to climate change as projected by the Copenhagen Consensus, who are nothing but economists.  So as wonderful as it is in theory, what we need are immediate solutions to reducing CO2 concentrations to avoid amplifications and tipping points, which the Copenhagen Conference did not address.  A link below argues, for example, that what is critically needed is a reduction in demands of fossil fuel through better efficiency of energy, not an increase of supply of alternative or renewable energy sources.  I don't quite understand that logic because I thought that renewables would reduce fossil fuel dependence but apparently many think that efficiency works more efficiently to reduce carbon emissions than increasing sources of renewables.  I still think there should be a combination of the two so I'll have to study it further. 
 
It's our responsibility as much as anyone else's.
 
Agreed.

It's not too late.
 
We hope.  75% of climate scientists at MIT (see pie chart in a previous post) believe that an international agreement, such as cap and trade, will slow the temperature rise to only a 1.0-2.5 C by 2100 instead of the 6.0-7.0 C temperature rise with no international agreement, so maybe not too late.
 
Too much certainty makes me suspicious, especially regarding group dynamics.
 
Climate science isn't about certainty; only probabilities and statistics.  I do not understand the relation of group dynamics to climate science so please clarify (must be the Asperger).  
 
We can also say that by the same token, too much certainty or willingness to agree with Lomborg can undermine a person's credibility; so this makes me suspicious. Not of your integrity or honesty, but of your ability to analyze the information critically and most comprehensively and perceive the whole integrally when it comes to climate change issues.  Especially when mainstream science is not consulted and only Lomborg is used as a primary source, who is well-known to cherry-pick scientific data to present distorted information to create false either/or propositions (such as "mitigation" vs. "R&D" or "mitigation" vs. "third world hunger").
 
I have not found a single environmental website or science blog that has anything positive to say about Lomborg, but have read that he's the darling of right-wing think-tanks opposed to regulation.  This makes me highly suspicious about his agenda.  In fact, the only non-negative and non-right-wing thing I've seen written about Bjorn was the Op-ed piece from the Washington Post that he authored himself, which was full of misleading and erroneous scientific information, such as his claim that mitigation would only result in a 0.5 C decline in average global temperature by 2100 after trillions of dollars wasted.  The only way to arrive at such a figure is to cherry-pick out of numerous different emissions projections to select the best-case scenario for "no policy action" (3.5 C rise by 2100) and the worse-case scenario for "policy action" (3.0 C rise by 2100) and subtract the difference to arrive at only a 0.5 C reduction after trillions of dollars wasted on CO2 reduction.  Does this not strike you as misleading? 
 
Especially considering that climate scientists at MIT thought that no policy would result in up to a 6.0-7.0 C temperature rise by 2100 whereas "policy action" would slow the temperature rise to 1.0-2.5 C and possibly well within the accepted range for prevention of a catastrophic climate change?  By the same token, choosing from numerous projections (see pie charts), we could also use a "worse case"/"best case" scenario to prove our point and say that a cap and trade policy will result in a 6.0 C reduction in average global temperature (compared to Copenhagen Consensus's 0.5 C reduction).
 
Ever heard of "lying with statistics"?
 
Other "myths" (not necessarily in agreement or disagreement with Lomborg's Copenhagen Consensus):
 
Source: Grist.org
 

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Skeptics, if skeptical, should also be skeptical of deniers.

B:

I know that you are ahead of me in responses.  I'll catch up but will have to continue sequentially.  You've raise some good points that need to be addressed.

Climate change can be a good or bad thing if left to natural forces and variations. 
I apologize if I have no other resources but L. (I don’t dare to write the name fully) says that in Europe about two hundred thousand people die from excess heat each year. However, about 1.5 million Europeans die annually from excess cold.”
 
OK, assuming that these deaths are due to natural weather patterns, how would these statistics improve (or worsen) with anthropogenic climate change in Europe?  
 
 
"All things considered, however, an Integral perspective would have to jettison the idea that human-caused climate change can have good effects." 
You should tell it to Ken Wilber, see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E8CAWawn2g&h at minute 5:18.
 
In a recent email newsletter from Integral Life, I read that Ken Wilber plans to participate in an upcoming conference on climate change.  If I remember correctly (please don't quote me on any of this), Wilber, along with Panchauri and other prominent figures and influential people from around the world, will be participating in this conference. 
 
It will be interesting to see if Ken's stance on climate change has evolved since the video in 2007.  My guess is that it has.  A conference of this magnitude and fanfare would attract worldwide attention and would put him in an uncomfortable spotlight if he were to maintain such an uninformed position as above.  Considering this, he would have to jettison his previously-held assumptions, such as the idea that human-caused climate change is "fine, just as it is" or can be a "good thing" for Denver (video), or that the scientists could be "wrong" this time since they predicted "global cooling" in the 1970s (Michael Crichton audio). 
 
From the standpoint of science (and thus, ultimately, Integral), his argument that climate change can be a good thing for Denver is scientifically uninformed and thus embarrassing, since it is based on the premise that temperature rise is how Denver would be impacted by global warming.  Denver should not be concerned by temperature rise but by other concerns, such as food and water shortages (for starters).  So while true, perhaps, that a 2.5 C temperature rise may be more agreeable weather-wise in Denver, the consequent melting of glaciers, water shortages, irrigation loss, crop failures, and food shortages from a 2.5 C increase in Denver would most definitely not.  Even if it is a scenario that isn't likely to affect him personally, since he will be dead and buried in the ground (or cremated) by then, perhaps, anywayz (2046 or sooner).
 
The second assumption, that scientists could be "wrong" this time since they predicted "global cooling" in the 1970s, is actually something that either he or Michael Crichton said (please check behind me) and something that one or the other concurred with wholeheartedly in the audio, when in fact only a minority of scientists supported this theory in the 1970s.  Even then, when it received media attention and became popularized in the early 1970s, most scientists continued to support the majority scientific view that earth was warming, which has always been the prevailing wisdom in climate science since first observing it in the 1890s or thereabouts.  I suppose that this is why the Boomer generation is more gullible to suspicion in climate science, unaware of the vast changes that have occurred in this field since 1980.
 
And if assumptions made of the science are already wrong, climate policy recommendations will be even more wrong ("The Bush administration was wrong about a lot of things, but on this issue, they were the only ones that were right" or "Kyoto was a joke because why should we sign up if China won't?" (all of this is paraphrased) ).  As to the second objection ("Why should the U.S. participate if China doesn't?"), this isn't even in keeping with Ken's analysis that complex global issues will require global solutions and the formation of a World Federation beginning at the level of Tier or Turquoise leadership.  Not right away, of course; yet an international agreement of some kind is a start.  But if your premise is that "the only people that are worthy to work in ecology are those who realize that nothing needs to be done," then global climate change will not be regarded as a complex global issue to be concerned with.
 
The only way to maintain such a position is to exclude climate scientists from an Integral framework, consult science fiction writers, and to ignore the vast and ever-growing body scientific evidence on the LR quadrant.  Not only is this position first tier, but it seems to have abandoned some core principles of science, namely objective evidence and debate.  I am confident that Ken Wilber has grown dramatically on this issue since the time of Michael Crichton (may he rest in peace) to offer a much-needed Integral perspective.
 
 
"However, if you do not believe that sudden catastrophic climate change can occur, you either have faith in humanity to stop it (bless your soul)"
 
You don’t really think that I think this way, do you?
 
I didn't think so; but didn't want to make any assumptions either way.
 
". . .or you think that the experts themselves are mistaken in their view.  In which case, you are making an expert judgment based on an independent conclusion of a scientific matter. Please clarify."
 
I am no climate scientist and definitely no expert. But I don’t believe e.g. that the hockey stick curve represents exactly the facts.
 
I understand that this "Hockey Stick" argument is an article of faith in Global Warming Denialism.  Do you realize that it'll always be invoked by those "believers" in the faith?  If you are a true skeptic, you would be more critical to examine this assumption of deniers (who are not scientists) as you have done so consistently with the science.  
 
"Hockey Stick" denialism will never die on net lore and will continue to be invoked and repeated as a mantra or article of faith so long as there are adherents to this myth who disbelieve in a "shape" that they can easily recognize on a chart or graph to therefore "attack" (keep it at 3rd grade level, why don't we?). 
 
Sometimes bad theories just have to "die out" yet may never, because they are shapes and images that people can recognize and point out in order to try to disprove instead of using logic or real data.  Not to suggest that you are gullible to this form of illogicality, Bernhard, but I do suggest that you be more critical in your critique of scientific information and always check the source of your data. 
 
The controversy surrounding it amounted to slight numerical errors found by statisticians connected to the oil industry and reported by the pro-oil Rep. Joe Barton (you know, the amber "natural variations" politician who thinks that we should just "adapt" to climate change?), who all got together and "audited" one scientist's tree ring data contribution to the IPCC's chart below for the sole purpose of disproving its "hockey shape":  
 
 
The Hockey stick graph as shown in the 2001 IPCC report. This chart shows the data from Mann et al. 1999. The colored lines are the reconstructed temperatures, and the gray shaded region represents estimated error bars.
 
Upon correcting for these statistical errors and adding additional proxies, no difference whatsoever could be found in the shape from their "corrections."  It is still a "Hockey Stick," which they tried to prove was not a hockey shape.  Watch:
 

Reconstructions of Northern Hemisphere temperatures for the last 1,000 years according to various older articles (bluish lines), newer articles (reddish lines), and instrumental record (black line).

I also have more recent scientific data from 2008 that includes not only the Northern Hemisphere, but also a hockey stick of the entire Southern Hemisphere, as well using numerous different proxies.  Both Northern and Southern Hemispheres show a dramatic turn upward in temperature rise in the shape of a hockey stick that puts myth of the Middle Warm Period to rest.  Which, relatively speaking, was colder than today but is often invoked as a denier argument to try to prove that it was warmer in the middle ages, or that global warming occurred naturally in the middle ages, too.  Only problem--the Middle Warm Period only occurred in the Northern Hemisphere.  It didn't occur in the Southern Hemisphere.  It was therefore not a "global warming" but a "hemispheric warming" or, to be more precise, only an isolated regional warming due to natural fluctuations, but was considerably colder than today. 

As you can see, Compared to the second chart, the shaft of the hockey on the first chart appears on first glance to be "straigher" but is actually greater in width when including the generous margin of error as indicated by the gray area by the IPCC in 2001, so was never incorrect in and of itself.  The "auditors" from the oil industry homed in on one statistical error they "outed" upon auditing Mann, et. al. (1999), which after the slight correction did not make any difference in the shape of even "his" hockey stick, neither, that is detectable to the eye or imaginatinatory realm (the mythic-amber structure).

 "Stern is the most recognized and most comprehensive economic study on climate change done to date.  It is far more comprehensive than the Copenhagen Consensus, and less ideologically-driven."
 
I think all studies are "ideologically"-driven (also integral studies) but the question is, by which ideology: is it capitalistic, leftist, integral… If you say it is ideologically-driven you just don’t like the ideology behind, and it’s okay. A value-meme is called ideology by those who don’t like it.
 
Bernhard: don't fool yourself: an ideology is an ideology is an ideology.  Some studies are more ideological, and some are more objective but may also be tainted with ideology as well.  Whereas Copenhagen Consensus is roundly criticized for being ideologically-driven by economists themselves inspecting this report (who are by and large conservative), the Stern Review is not.  But, in any event, I did not say that Stern wasn't "ideological," but was "less ideologically-driven" than the Copenhagen Consensus. 
 
The Stern report did not screen economists on the basis of their political ideology toward the concept of Kyoto, but the Bjorn Lomborg hand-picked less qualified economists purely on ideological grounds which biases the whole thing from the get-go.  Integral should not to be biased but is susceptible to bias as well, yet should also be vigilant to watch for and avoid all bias and not try to justify it or rationalize it to make it more acceptable. 
 
"Yet in spite of the inadequacies above, compared to Stern, the Copenhagen Consensus appears to be even more so.  In all, it appears to be only a partial perspective composed only of economists who were hand-selected by Lomborg on the basis of their unfavorable opinion toward Kyoto, who get together an provide an economic forecast which is now considered obsolete by many economists.  Furthermore, it is based on scientific data that is considered obsolete by most scientists. This is not integral."
 
It doesn’t claim to be integral.
 
No, it does not.  But you do; which I'm sure you are.  Which means that you have higher standards to uphold and are responsible for presenting an integrum or whole: not just a part or partiality.
 
"The Copenhagen Consensus is criticized for using economists who do not specialize in development."
 
From where is this information? It is not true. In the CC there are 'experts' who are economists, and there are 'challenge paper authors' who are experts in development. The latter describe the problems and possible solutions, then the economists range the solutions by cost effectiveness. Please see www.copenhagenconsensus.com/Participants/Challenge%20Paper%20Authors.aspx .
 
I got that from Wikipedia.  Type in "Copenhagen Consensus" and see for yourself.  I'll check out your link but do not see how it can argue to be more objective about itself than Wikipedia, as the link above links back to themselves.  It can only cast itself in a positive light as specialists in economy which, if true, would not have been criticized as others as being composed of economists who do not specialize in development.  The whole report, frankly, had already strained its credibility beyond acceptable limits for me from the scientific information on the Executive Summary. 
 
"Carbon tax may or may not be more effective as Lomborg (I suspect), Exxon CEO, and James Hansen contend, but it does not appear to be politically realistic to implement instead of cap and trade the more I look into it.  For Integral, we also have to consider what is realistic."
 
I prefer a carbon tax.
 
OK.  Care to elaborate on why?
 
"It is good to challenge one's position by getting many and varied perspectives.  I do it all the time."
 
Me too, but I sort out.
 
It's good to be selective.  In fact, it is a must to able to meaningfully evaluate from mounds conflicting data in order to be integral.  What I would suggest is that you challenge your beliefs on ecology, which appears to be narrowly confined to Lomborg and to the Copenhagen Consensus.
 
Something that would be admirable for Lomborg to do would be to change his stance that "yeah, global warming is human-caused due to CO2 emissions, but things are not as bad as they say."  He would definitely earn my respect.  It would be interesting to see how his perspective changes in light of newer information. 
The next Copenhagen Consensus will take place in 2012. Yes, it will be interesting to see the results in light of newer information.
 
Too much certainty makes me suspicious, especially regarding group dynamics.
 "Climate science isn't about certainty;"
But they behave as if they were certain.
 
You can't "state" that and expect me to believe in faith, now do you?  Please offer me a concrete example in climate science of certainty.
 
"only probabilities and statistics.  I do not understand the relation of group dynamics to climate science so please clarify (must be the Asperger)."
  
I think it's not the Asperger. One thing is that groups tend to polarize from each other. Second, the group dynamics of climatologists sometimes remembers me of doomsday groups.
 
I'm still not convinced that group dynamics exists in climate science and that it is more the case of a definitive truth that is 90%, meaning "very likely," because derived from numerous independent sources working separately from each other and specializing in various different areas (examples: the mosquito line and other species of animals and plants creeping ever northward; the desalinization of Northern oceans and the salinization of the Southern Oceans; the acidification of the oceans; the ongoing temperature rises globally; the melting glaciers, the melting sea ice, the higher CO2 and methane concentrations, the melting of polar ice and breaking off of Antarctica; the recent flood in North Dakota; and here's a good brief summary of key indicators, put out by NASA: http://climate.jpl.nasa.gov/keyIndicators/index.cfm#IceMass).  And remember: the IPCC bases its analyses on thousands of independent climate scientists from around the world who conduct independent studies unrelated to each other or to the IPCC panelists themselves.
 
 
Third, and this is more the political-philosophical issue, I am strongly influenced by Ayn Rand and her novel “Atlas Shrugged” where independent thinking vs. collectivism is the main topic througout the novel. I read the book because it was recommended to me by the Argentinian editor of a book by Fred Kofman (which I wanted to translate from Spanish to German). I then heard that Fred had translated “Atlas Shrugged” into Spanish (his native language). Atlas Shrugged had en enormous impact on me. Before reading it I was leftist and anti-capitalistic (almost from birth on), after reading it I saw the world differently - (like many, many other readers, as was the result of a survey by the Library of Congress where respondents asked to rate which books had most influenced them ranked Atlas Shrugged second after the Bible).
 
I've never read Ayn Rand but have read and heard much about her.  She reminds me very much of myself, actually: stubbornly independent, objective, and rational.  She's still orange rationality, however; so integral should also include green pluralism in its integral framework as well, and not be so opposed to it all the time just because it's "green."  Green is higher than orange, but has its own defects.  But as far as the "worst," Ken Wilber himself admits that the MOM (mean orange meme) is far worse than the MGM of green. So we should try to include both.
 
 
I think you often are using Wikipedia as a source. Sometimes it is reliable. But in areas where there are ideological wars, it is biased sometimes. Contributing to the German article on Ken Wilber, it took me years to defend that the opinion that KW is New Age is an opinion but not the truth.
 
Are you suggesting that I depend on Wikipedia for scientific information? 
 
I refer to Wikipedia when it comes to economics because finance is not my specialty, and because Wikipedia is widely-recognized for its stance of neutrality across all political spectrums to refer me to other related sources.  I've actually gone to many other sites which confirm the general remarks in Wikipedia, but would possibly be criticized for being "ideological" and not as committed to objectivity or neutrality because they were randomly selected from the 'net from Google search.
 
So while I do tend to refer to Wikipedia for the sake of convenience or neutrality, never do I simply cite Wikipedia alone without consulting elsewhere beforehand.
 
 
No, Hansen stikes me as misleading. I remembered who he is when I posted in the other thread.
 
So none of what Lomborg says, even after I've shown you the discrepancies and scientific errors, is misleading to you?  Interesting.
 
Please explain how Hansen is misleading.  I am very curious.
  
"Ever heard of "lying with statistics"?"
 
Yes, referring to the hockey stick graph... And in the Rahmstorf article you quoted. At University, my statistics professor joked “Don’t trust any statistic which you did not fake yourself” 
 
I think maybe you do not know how to discriminate denier arguments from legitimate scientific objections.   This can pose a danger for those who are skeptic toward uncritically embracing long-ago discredited arguments of deniers.
 
Every objection you've offered scientifically, to my knowledge, has already been disproven.  Please clarify how Rahmstorf had been lying with statistics, because there is no scientist to my knowledge who will confirm Lomborg's claim that the sea is not rising.

Climate change is not exactly my home game, but I am learning so much with you: to be clear and precise, to clarify how I come to a conclusion or opinion, to express my opinion. Yet I am less than an amateur in this...

Thank you.  And likewise: you force me to a great deal more research to help refine my own thoughts.

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If you want to know this, do this.

Myth: Integral supports alarmist climate policy; 1st tier opposes it

While true that Integral doesn't support anything "alarmist" (if based on my definition below), I don't know how meaningful the statement is considering that neither a carbon tax nor an international agreement (such as cap and trade) can be justified integrally as an "alarmist" climate policy.

My definition:

"Alarmist," when referring to someone who "believes" in anthropogenic climate change, can be a negative yet, truthful and appropriate term to refer to a person who makes unfounded, pre-rational, or irrational scientific claims about global warming (or otherwise argues to "debunk" global warming skepticism or denial without demonstrating actual competence to discuss it).  Otherwise, it can refer to someone's outward behavior (such as panic) beyond what most would consider as reasonable or rational.  It would be the polar opposite of a "denier," a negative yet, truthful and appropriate term that I have made every attempt to distinguish from a genuine "skeptic."

While I'm sure that such a global warming alarmist exists (there are all kinds of crazies out there, as you well know), I have not encountered such a person before.  On the other hand, I've encountered a great many deniers who will come up with all kinds of unfounded, irrational, or obsolete arguments to "debunk" anthropogenic climate change to "prove" that the consensus is "wrong" (and/or is a "hoax" or a conspiracy).  So while I can see the justification for the use of the term "denier," if you could show me one example of a global warming alarmist based on my descriptions above, maybe I can see your justification for the use of the term. 

Otherwise, I will think that you are taking a global warming denier's (and often, skeptic's) perspective of "alarmist," which can refer to anyone who happens to agree with the scientific consensus, including the scientists themselves, in an effort to make them appear insane or irrational.  When used in this sense, it is a biased and perjorative term with no basis in truth, so is therefore inappropriate from an integral standpoint.

"Alarmist climate policy," on the other hand, suggests that either a carbon tax or an international cap and trade agreement is somehow irrational or unreasonable.  This to me suggests that you are biased in your thinking and are using the term perjoratively.  I see neither policy as unreasonable or "irrational" from the standpoint of science, although with respect to the finer details I can't say that I'm as informed on policy matters.  At any rate, based on what I've read thus far, I see no reason to call any of it "alarmist."

The German canciller, Angela Merkel, is the equivalent of a republican. She is a strong supporter of climate politics.
 
Yes, I have heard that Europeans in general are not divided between "left" and "right" on issues of climate change?  Is that so?
 
Not to suggest that you are a Republican, Bernhard
luckily

Meaning you feel lucky that you're not an American Republican, or that you're politically not "right-wing."

Current climate change has to do with human activity (but I am not sure).
The latest IPCC assessment, based on thousands of peer-reviewed studies, reports that human action is "very likely" to be the cause of the current global warming, meaning greater than 90%. 
Maybe ‘very likely’, but I am not sure.
 
It's not unusual for an intelligent layperson to have doubts about mainstream science, but cannot be regarded as an informed or integral stance.  Which is fine, because I don't claim to be informed or integral when it comes to algebra, driving, or directions so am perpetually lost.  Also in interpersonal skills, such as understanding non-verbal communication or people's intent so am "first tier" in that sense as well.  I could go on and on in areas where I am first tier.  But on climate change, I am no longer first tier but have an integrated perspective.  Not to say that I'm a climate expert but that I do have an integrated and informed perspective in that regard.  Much more than I can say for Lomborg, who may well be integrated on some other line or field but on climate change, he is so not integral. 
 
I can also say the same about Ken Wilber's stance on climate change.  Don't get me wrong: he is among the rare masterminds of the world.  But what he said about climate change is so not integral, and the thing he said about plutonium being able to kill off every single virus on the face of the earth is also highly questionable and would have to be checked against other sources.  At any rate, I don't know why he ranks "missing plutonium" as a higher concern than climate change.  We can't do ANYTHING about "missing plutonium."  Things are just fine, radically, just the way they are; we can't do anything about it anyway.  But we can and should do something about climate change. 
 
Most people who still express such doubts about climate change do so because they are not familiar with the science or get their information from a biased secondary source that is not even scientific (and trust me: Lomborg and Crichton are not scientific).  These do not count as science.  So you have to look first to see what the science says.  If you want to know this, do this.
 
Just like the church fathers who refused to peer through the telescope: when you refuse to look to see what the science says, then you don't get to vote.
 
Another thing  that confused me was that Ken suggests on the video that social activism is a "MGM" (mean green meme).  In Spiral Dynamics, social activism is regarded as a healthy green meme. 
 
To be continued

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Buzzwords as Magical Incantation; 2014 IPCC will be more Integral.

As a voter and layperson I say that alarmism is to suggest something which appears exaggerated to me. This is very subjective. Anyhow, in climate science the left quadrants are not addressed, and the left quadrants “contain” subjective impressions or decisions based on the answer to the question “can I trust?”.
 
Words as Magical Spell

While "Global Warming Alarmism" is a theoretical possibility, all charges investigated of such alarmisms have turned out themselves to be either bogus or uninformed.  Integral should make every effort to avoid such a term because almost in every case, it is conjured negatively in the form of deficient magic.  In almost every case, it is used perjoratively by global warming deniers to magically project their own irrational fears and shadows onto scientists, legitimate science, and anyone who happens to support climate change legislation via pars pro toto (the magical exchanging of one part for another via wishful thiking and utterance). 

Words can be source of power (magic).  Words can act as a spell or incantation by mere utterance to effect magical influence over others who hearken to the sound and succomb to it.  Generally, those who succomb to the magic spell are less conscious than the speaker (magician) himself or herself who uttered the sounds.  The same magic sound has no power to effect or charm those who are above (and thus, more conscious than) the spell-caster who uttered the words or cast the spell, especially when the magician who conjures them utilizes magic negatively in the form of witchcraft, or deficient magic. 

Gebser refers to positive (efficient) magic as "spell-casting," which has magic power to influence anyone at any structure, whether higher or lower, to effectuate magic positively.  Negative (deficient), on the other hand, is "witchcraft," and has no power to effect those who are more conscious than the person casting the magic spell.  Increasing consciousness essentially negates the power of magic.  This is why magic became deficient as a structure: as people moved beyond the magic structure to the mythical, magic became deficient and lost its potency. 

Magic itself is not necessarily a bad thing because the magical structure constitutes every being and, as such, serves as a foundation to every higher structure.  We can no more dispense with magic than we can do away with music (ear) or sex or human bonding (viscera).  In fact, we can effectuate positive magic at the Integral-aperspectival structure.  But when conjured inappropriately and uttered irrationally or fanatically as incantation or buzzwords, words can exert a negative and powerful influence over unsuspecting victims who fall sway to the spell of demagoguary and deficient magic.  

In almost every case, we find that the term "alarmism" is used as a buzzword by deniers because they don't like to be called out for what they are (deniers) and magically wish to disown their own irrational (mythical) and pre-rational (magical) beliefs or fears by denying their denial and projecting their irrational shadows onto others. 

Global Warming Sceptics, if truly skeptical in the healthy scientific sense of having doubts about the science, would avoid such a perjorative term because it automatically assumes that the science is either wrong or exaggerated.  When such an assumption is automatically made in a skeptic, he or she is no longer a skeptic but a global warming denier.  Bjorn Lomborg is not a skeptic in the sense of being skeptical of the consensus that global warming is man-made, yet many things he states definitively are counter to scientific opinion and border on denial (for instance: his denial that the sea is rising).  So even though he claims to be an environmental skeptic, what he states about the science overall does not in truth reflect doubt or skepticism; yet because he rejects many finer details of science while not himself being trained in science, he is in some sense a denier. 

Right-hand quadrants do not address subjectivity

As a voter and layperson I say that alarmism is to suggest something which appears exaggerated to me. This is very subjective. Anyhow, in climate science the left quadrants are not addressed, and the left quadrants “contain” subjective impressions or decisions based on the answer to the question “can I trust?”.

Climate science addresses only the right-hand objective quadrants, not the left-hand subjective or intersubjective quadrants.  And this is as it should be.  We don't want climate science getting mixed up with subjectivity because it cannot do so without abandoning its core principle of objectivity.  If climate science were to try to address issues of trust or subjective truths on the left-hand quadrants, it would lose its legitimacy as a science and would degrade into pseudo-science.  So we don't want that.

An Integral approach does not exclude, but includes and defers to legitimate sciences such as climate science and other methodologies on the right while also transcending and including these right-hand truths into an overall integral framework.  This is because Integral is concerned with every quadrant, including those on the left referring to subjectivity and intersubjectivity.  However, because Integral gives to science what is science, to art what is art, to morals what is moral (or religion) and to spiritual what is Spirit, it must defer to the highest form of every quadrant for various truths.  It insists that "if you want to know this, do this."  If you want to know science, do science.  If you do not know the science, the you don't get to vote.  Meaning attempts to cast a vote by casting a spell of "alarmism" will be ignored by those who know the science and know you do not know it.  No matter how "integral" you are.

If you want to do integral, do integral.  But don't look to integral for science, and don't look to science for integral: Integral is a framework and defers to science for science so better to look to science when you want to know science truth and then incorporate this objective quadrant truth into integral (and not vice-versa).  Meaning, science does not transcend and include integral so you cannot incorporate the whole, that is, integral, into science (which is only partial).  But you can and should incorporate science (a quadrant) into integral (all quadrants and thus wholeness).

A more concrete example:  The next IPCC assessment in 2014 will for the first time assess various climate policy and economic strategies to offer a consensus position on integral ecology.  To do so, it cannot defer only to the climate scientists that are currently on the panel (who can offer only a scientific consensus) but must expand its scope to include integral philosophers, sociologists, psychologists, economists, and so on who deal with other aspects of an integral ecology.  All of these other specialists will have a special area in which to focus their expertise, but all will defer to the scientific consensus on matters of a scientific kind so will based on the most up-to-date science.  Which the Copenhagen Consensus does not do, nor is equipped to do.

I'll check out your link but need to go ahead and post this.