re: What are We Talking About and What are We Doing? Various "Isms" and Economic Systems

* For starters, wouldn't you agree that its really important to try to get to an agreement about what we are talking about? And especially, at what level we want to approach it? And, lines too. Are we trying to generate material for stimulation of an interpersonal line or a cognitive line or both or ... what are we doing?

Great place to begin.  I'll try to keep this Cafe Minimalism.  Let's start out by levels/lines from various quadrants.  For instance: I see a problem on the LR quadrant of development, the collective external/objective quadrant such as the planet as having a problem at the most fundamental level of existence: brute survival.  In that sense, if we think of "survival" as a "line" rather than a level of development, I'd say we are at "magenta."  And/or, we have regressed collectively back to the "level" or stage of magenta, in terms of planetary health.

Yet, the LR is also indirectly related to another "line" of cognitive development on both the UL and LL quadrants.  The left-hand quadrants are in reference to interior development both subjectively (UL) and intersubjectively or collectively (UR).  Higher cognitive "lines" in the left quadrants correlate with exterior development in the form of technological sophistication and the Internet on the LR (and UR) quadrant.  Therefore, in the sense of technological advancement, whether seen as a "line" or "level/stage" of development (they seem to be used interchangeably at times--or either I can't differentiate them well enough to know the difference), we are advancing into second-tier stages and beyond.  Yet is also true that Global Warming has placed us all in a precarious stage, level, or line of existence in terms of "survival needs" when looking at rising CO2 levels, melting polar ice caps, climage change, and oceanic osteoporosis.  So in that sense, we are at magenta on the LR quadrant.

But yes, I'd say that it is possible to be at different stages simultaneously on various lines of development within the same quadrant--such as on the LR and being at "green" or "teal" in terms of technological sophistication and at "magenta" in terms of oceanic osteoporosis (new data in oceanography on the acidification of the ocean due to increased carbon levels being absorbed into the oceans.  They found this by comparing current carbon levels in seawater to the carbon levels from ice core samples from a century ago.  As the oceans absorb more carbon, PH levels lower in seawater, making it increasingly more corrosive to the point of dissolving shellfish and other calcium-rich life forms over time).

"Generating material (UR/LR) for stimulation of an interpersonal line" (LL) sounds like an LL concern, as it is for the stimulation of a collective interpersonal.  I would therefore place "interpersonal stimulation" in a quadrant rather than in a line of development whereas I would define "cognitive ability" as a "line" of development rather than as a level or stage of development (such as orange or green), whether on the LL or the UL.  Usually, "cognitive" or "personal stimulation" is regarded as an individual or private activity or capacity, whether UL subjectively as in thinking or UR externally with objects.  Thus, whereas "cognition" appears to be more along the lines of a line on the UL quadrant (subjective (singular) interiority) from a more conventional standpoint, "interpersonal stimulation" sounds more like a LL (intersubjective (plural) interior) pursuit of a less conventional sort.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.
 

* What I was thinking is that .. on-line discussion is really prone to "two ships passing in the night." I say X and you think I meant XY but I meant XZ. And 20,000 words ensue without a common object of discussion.

I think we are talking about:

1. the role of amber in this year's election (your topic question);

and

2. the sustainability of the American form of capitalism in an age of Global Warming and scarcity of natural resources (my question)

Question 1, I think we'd agree, refers to worldviews or a stage of development on the LL quadrant.  Your post began that amber would play a decisive role in this year's election, whereas I argued that amber was diminishing as a political force in the aftermath of 8 years of amber-orange leadership and their high unpopularity during election year.  I also argued that the passage of time and the exponential rate of change of consciousness in every quadrant of development results in amber as a political force diminishing (not remaining static or increasing) as they either die off or evolve into orange (with the understanding that we are only referring here to overall centers of gravity, that is, "average mode of consciousness" or stages, much like you were referring to amber in your original post). 

Question 2 grew out of question number 1 in response to the defeat of communism which you described as being evil or cancerous. I then questioned your assumptions on communism by comparing the evils of unfettered capitalism with the evils of 20th century communism, that of Marxism.  I argued that the current American form of capitalism is no longer sustainable in the age of scarcity and Global Warming. 

We have little choice, for instance, but to join the postmodern world by adopting a form of universal healthcare and to allow the government to intervene in the form of subsidies for investment in a new energy system, e.g., renewable energy.  Should we do so, it will result in a form of capitalism that is more along the lines of a socialist democracy such as that of Europe or Japan.  Or, if you will--a "socialist republic," since America is technically a "republic" and not a true democracy (never a "people rule," "majority rule," or perjoratively, "mob rule"..).  In any event, the government takeover of the financial sector makes the argument of moving into "socialism" a moot point at this point, since we're already somewhat of a socialism already. 

Whereas your concern appears to be centered primarily around the possible restrictions imposed on personal development or individual freedoms (UL) by a move toward the political "left" (collectivism), I am more concerned with ecological and economic stability (LR) and sustainability (LR) after spending far too long on the political "right" (individualism) and in the face of Global Warming. 

From what I gather, aside from universal healthcare--it sounds as if you are advocating a form of Objectivism such as Ayn Rand or possibly a Libertarianism.  I realize you don't care for the labels and much less for the "isms," but I'm just trying to understand what we are talking about.  I think it might be useful if we pinpoint where we are "coming from" ideologically, politically, or economically:

Some political ideologies favor capitalism:

http://morrischia.com/david/portfolio/boozy/research/capitalism.html

▪ Libertarianism, sometimes also called classical liberalism, defends a capitalist free market with minimal state intervention. Minarchist libertarians see the role for government in the economy as solely defending the rights of the participants against violence, theft, fraud, and damages such as pollution. Anarcho-capitalists see no role for government whatsoever.

▪ Conservatism varies depending on countries in its specific stances. In Western nations, conservatives often defend the status quo of capitalist practices. Most people who call themselves politically conservative however, economically subscribe to Mercantilism. See also political conservatism.

▪ Objectivism argues that from the individual's standpoint, the only moral economic system is capitalism, since capitalism itself can never come to exist without free men who act rationally and within the bounds of their unalienable, and rationally derived, rights.

Some ideologies favor a mixed economy with capitalist and state-run elements:

▪ Mercantilism defends a mostly free market within the nation, but proposes state intervention to protect domestic commerce and industries against foreign competition. See also protectionism, and in opposition, free trade, and Crony capitalism.

▪ Social democracy and new liberalism argue for extensive state regulation and partial intervention in an otherwise capitalist economy. Social democrats occupy a position between socialists and classical liberals with regards to economic matters. They see a need for government to regulate employment, trade, and labor, and sometimes favor nationalization of certain industries. See also welfare state, political liberalism.

▪ Distributism desires an economy with private property and with almost all people possessing a means of production. This would take place in for example a country of sustenance farmers. In a distributist economy, laws would be made to restrict larger corporations from taking over. Distributists favor achieving these goals not primarily through government regulation, but firstly through grass roots efforts and collaboration.

▪ Fascism established a state-controlled economy with powers delegated to capitalist interests subservient to the central government. Socialists sometimes describe modern capitalism as "fascist", meaning an analogy to historical fascism with its cooperation (or cronyism) between industry and government.

Some ideologies oppose capitalism and support a collectively run economy:

▪ Socialism argues for greater state control of the economy than under social democracy. Areas of capitalism or private ownership may remain in certain sectors (such as small businesses) under socialism, but industry and labor are regulated by the state for the benefit of the populace at large.

▪ Communism is a variant of socialism which calls for the overthrow of the capitalist system and the establishment of public ownership of the means of production. Communists see socialism as a stage towards the establishment of a stateless and classless economy. Historical Soviet Communism, a system of Party-controlled socialism, is distinct from the Communist ideal.

▪ Libertarian socialism argues for collective control of the economy without the need for a State, or with only a very limited (minimalist) State that exists solely for the purpose of guaranteeing and protecting communal property and human rights.

▪ Anarchism strives for the immediate abolition of both the State and private property, and the establishment of a communal society quite similar to the one advocated by communists as their final goal (but in contrast to the communists, anarchists oppose the idea of a transitional socialist stage). (i.e., "Zeitgeist: Addendum")

Some ideologies that were cynical, anti-patriotic, apolticial, self-centered, or pragmatic although on the whole, they tended to be indifferent or have a negative view toward capitalism:

Douglas Coupland's Generation X Neo-logisms

http://www.scn.org/~jonny/genx.html

Neologisms are newly invented words, or existing words that are combined to create a word with a new meaning during the period when they were novel. (...)

▪ Libertarianism, sometimes also called classical liberalism, defends a capitalist free market with minimal state intervention. Minarchist libertarians see the role for government in the economy as solely defending the rights of the participants against violence, theft, fraud, and damages such as pollution. Anarcho-capitalists see no role for government whatsoever.

▪ 101-ism,

▪ 2+2=5ims,

▪ Air Family,

▪ Anti-Sabbatical,

▪ Bambification,

▪ Black Holes,

▪ Boomer Envy,

▪ Bradyism,

▪ Brazilification,

▪ Bread and Circuits,

▪ Cafe acute Minimalism

[or such as this post...which was meant to be brief and 'to the point' but then got side-tracked into seemingly irrelevent and anachronistic list of Gen-X neologisms...]

 

▪ Clique Management,

▪ Consensus Terrorism,

▪ Conspicuous Minimalism,

▪ Conversational Slumming,

▪ Cult of Aloneness,

▪ Decade Blending,

▪ Derision Preemption,

▪ Divorce Assumption,

(page 34)

A form of Safety Net-ism, the belief that if marriage doesn't work out, then there is no problem because partners can simply seek a divorce.

▪ Down-Nesting,

(page 144)

The tendency of parent to move to smaller, guest-room-free houses after their children have moved away so as to avoid children aged 20 to 30 who have boomeranged home.

▪ Dumpster Clocking,

(page 162)

The tendency when looking at objects to guesstimate the amount of time they will take to eventually decompose: "Ski boots are the worst. Solid plastic. They'll be around till the sun goes supernova."

▪ Earth Tones,

(page 26)

A youthful subgroup interested in vegetarianism, tie-dyed outfits, mild recreational drugs, and good stereo equipment. Earnest, frequently lacking in humor.

▪ Emallgration,

▪ Ethnomagnetic,

(page 26)

The tendency of young people to live in emotionally demonstrative, more unrestrained ethnic neighborhoods: "You wouldn't understand it there, mother -- they hug where I live now."

▪ Fame-Induced Apathy,

(page 150)

The attitude that no activity is worth pursuing unless one can become very famous pursuing it. Fame-Induced Apathy mimics laziness, but its roots are much deeper.

▪ Green Division,

(page 150)

To know the difference between envy and jealousy.

[and between the Green Party, Green Industries, and Green "Cultural Creatives," for example].

▪ Homeowner Envy,

(page 144)

Feelings of jealousy generated by the young and the disenfranchised when faced with gruesome housing statistics.

▪ Japanese Minimalism,

(page 75)

The most frequently offered interior design aesthetic used by rootless career-hopping young people.

▪ Knee-Jerk Irony,

(page 150)

The tendency to make flippant ironic comments as a reflexive matter of course in everyday conversation.

▪ Legislated Nostalgia,

(page 41)

To force a body of people to have memories that do not actually possess: "How can I be a part of the 1960s generation when I don't even remember any of it?"

▪ Lessness,

(page 54)

A philosophy whereby one reconciles oneself with diminishing expectations of material wealth: "I've given up wanting to make a killing or be a bigshot. I just want to find happiness and maybe open up a little roadside cafe in Idaho."

▪ McJob,

(page 5)

A low-pay, low-prestige, low-dignity, low-benefit, no-future job in the service sector. Frequently considered a satisfying career choice by people who have never held one.

▪ Me-ism,

(page 126)

A search by an individual, in the absence of training or traditional religious tenets, to formulate a personally tailored religion by himself. Most frequently a mishmash of reincarnation, personal dialogue with a nebulously defined god figure, naturalism, and karmic eye-for-eye attitudes.

▪ Metaphasia,

(page 164)

An inability to perceive metaphor.

▪ Mid-Twenties Breakdown,

(page 27)

A period of mental collapse occurring in one's twenties, often caused by an inability to function outside of school or structured environments coupled with a realization of one's aloneness in the world. Often marks the induction into the ritual of pharmaceutical usage.

▪ Musical Hairsplitting,

(page 85)

The act of classifying music and musicians into pathologically picayune categories: "The Vienna Franks are a good example of urban white acid folk revivalism crossed with ska."

▪ Native Aping,

(page 172)

Pretending to be a native when visiting a foreign destination.

▪ Now Denial,

(page 41)

To tell oneself that the only time worth living in is the past and that the only time that may ever be interesting again is the future.

▪ Obscurism,

(page 165)

The practice of peppering daily life with obscure references (forgotten films, dead TV stars, unpopular book, defunct countries, etc.) as a subliminal means of showcasing one's education and one's wish to disassociate from the world of mass culture.

▪ Occupational Slumming,

(page 113)

Taking a job beneath one's skills or education level as a means of retreat from adult responsibilities and/or avoiding possible failure in one's true occupation.

▪ Option Paralysis,

(page 139)

The tendency, when given unlimited choices, to make none.

▪ Overboarding,

(page 26)

Overcompensating for fears about the future by plunging headlong into a job or life-style seemingly unrelated to one's previous interests; i.e., Amway sales, aerobics, the Republican Party, a career in law, cults, McJobs....

▪ Ozmosis,

(page 25)

The inability of one's job to live up to one's self-image.

▪ Personal Tabu,

(page 74)

A small rule for living, bordering on superstition, that allows one to cope with everyday life in the absence of cultural or religious dictums.

▪ Personality Tithe,

(page 143)

A price paid for becoming a couple; previously amusing human beings become boring: "Thanks for inviting us, but Noreen and I are going to look at flatware catalogs tonight. Afterward we're going to watch the travel channel."

▪ Platonic Shadow,

(page 62)

A nonsexual friendship with a member of the opposite sex.

▪ Poor Buoyancy,

(page 82)
The realization that one was a better person when one had less money.

▪ Poorochondria,

(page 74)

Hypochondria derived from not having medical insurance.

▪ Poverty Jet Set,

(page 6)

A group of people given to chronic traveling at the expense of long-term job stability or a permanent residence. Tend to have doomed and extremely expensive phone call relationships with people names Serge or Ilyana. Tend to discuss frequent-flyer programs at parties.

▪ Power Mist,

(page 25)

The tendency of hierarchies in office environments to be diffuse and preclude crisp articulation.

▪ Pull-the-Plug, Slice the Pie,

(page 137)

A fantasy in which an offspring mentally tallies up the net worth of his parents.

▪ Rebellion Postponement,

(page 106)

The tendency in one's youth to avoid traditionally youthful activities and artistic experiences in order to obtain serious career goals. Sometimes results in the mourning for lost youth at about age thirty, followed by silly haircuts and joke- inducing wardrobes.

▪ Recreational Slumming,

(page 113)

The practice of participating in recreational activities of a class one perceives as lower than one's own: "Karen! Donald! Let's go bowling tonight! An don't worry about shoes... apparently you can rent them."

▪ Recurving,

(page 24)

Leaving one job to take another that pays less but places one back on the learning curve.

▪ Safety Net-ism,

(page 34)

The belief that there will always be a financial and emotional safety net to buffer life's hurts. Usually parents.

▪ Spectacularism,

(page 50)

A fascination with extreme situations.

▪ Squires,

(page 135)

The most common X generation subgroup and the only subgroup given to breeding. Squires exist almost exclusively in couples and are recognizable by their frantic attempts to recreate a semblance of Eisenhower-era plenitude and their daily lives in the face of exorbitant housing prices and two-job life-styles. Squires tend to be continually exhausted from voraciously acquisitive pursuit of furniture and knickknacks.

▪ Successophobia,

(page 30)

The fear that if one is successful, then one's personal needs will be forgotten and one will no longer have one's childish needs catered to.

▪ Voter's Block,

(page 80)

The attempt, however futile, to register dissent with the current political system by simply not voting.

▪ Yuppie Wannabe's,

(page 91)

An X generation subgroup that believes the myth of a yuppie life-style being both satisfying and viable. Tend to be high in debt, involved in some form of substance abuse, and show a willingness to talk about Armageddon after three dr inks.

I tend to align myself toward a Successophobia, Safety Net-ism, Brazilificaton, Lessness, Cult of Aloneness, Option Paralysis, Dumpster Clocking, Socialist Democracy, for example.  I have previously alinged myself with Voter's Block, Poverty Jet Set, Recreational Slumming, Mid-Twenties Breakdown, Boomer Envy, and Obscurism, for example. This is based on my assessment of all quadrants and concluding that the condition of LR at magenta warrants the most serious concern for us globally; and that a Socialist Democracy or Socialist Republic type of economic system is best suited for the task of averting a global catastrophe.  Which is not that different from a Postmodernist Democrat although I'd say it's closer in ideology to that of Green (party, that is: not necessarily in reference to a stage in AQAL). 

Which of the above describes your political/economic system outlook best?  (this question is to Shalk and to anyone, as are the rest of the questions).  I personally don't think that one's preference for a type of economic system or political party necessarily reflects one's level of interior development.  Nor does it mean necessarily that one is engaging in first-tier thinking, partiality, or political bias.  Yet, I still tend to think that it is possible to view this thing integrally to evaluate what is most appropriate for the whole integrally.  Not to say that it would be implemented nationally or that anyone would consider it; but just to get anyone's opinion.   

 

(page 173)

Migration toward lower-tech, lower-information environments containing lessened emphasis on consumerism.

 

(page 150)

A life-style tactic; the refusal to go out on any sort of emotional limb so as to avoid mockery from peers. Derision Preemption is the main goal of Knee-Jerk Irony.

 

(page 15)

In clothing: the indiscriminate combination of two or more items from various decades to create a personal mood: Sheila = Mary Quant earrings (1960s) + cork wedgie platform shoes (1970s) + black leather jacket (1950s and 1980s).

 

(page 69)

The need for autonomy at all costs, usually at the expense of long-term relationships. Often brought about by overly high expectations of others.

 

(page 113)

The self conscious enjoyment of a given conversation precisely for its lack of intellectual rigor. A major spin-off activity of Recreational Slumming.

 

(page 107)

A life-style tactic similar to Status Substitution. The nonownership of goods flaunted as a token of moral and intellectual superiority.

 

page 21)

The process that decides in-office attitudes and behavior.

 

(page 21)

The need of one generation to see the generation following it as deficient so as to bolster its own collective ego: "Kids today do nothing. They're so apathetic. We used to go out and protest. All they do is shop and complain."

 

(page 107)

To espouse a philosophy of minimalism without actually putting into practice any of its tenets.

 

(page 80)

The electronic era tendency to view party politics as corny -- no longer relevant or meaningful or useful to modern societal issues, and in may cases dangerous.

 

(page 11)

The widening gulf between the rich and the poor and the accompanying disappearance of the middle classes.

 

(page 134)

A multisibling sensibility derived from having grown up in large families. A rarity n those born after approximately 1965, symptoms of Bradyism include a facility for mind games, emotional withdrawal in situations of overcrowding, and a deeply felt need for well-defined personal space.

 

(page 21)

Envy of material wealth and long-range material security accrued by older members of the baby boom generation by virtue of fortunate births.

 

(page 135)

An X generation subgroup best known for their possession of almost entirely black wardrobes.

 

(page 48)

The mental conversion of flesh and blood living creatures into cartoon creatures possessing bourgeois Judeo-Christian attitudes and morals.

 

(page 35)

A job take with the sole intention of staying only for a limited period of time (often one year). The intention is usually to raise enough funds to partake in another, more personally meaningful activity such as watercolor sketching in Crete o r designing computer knit sweaters in Hong Kong. Employers are rarely informed of intention.

 

(page 111)

Describes the false sense of community experienced among coworkers in an office environment.

 

(page 139)

Caving in to a target marketing strategy aimed at oneself after holding out for a long period of time. "Oh, all right, I'll buy your stupid cola. Now just leave me alone."

 

(page 85)

The tendency to pick apart, often in minute detail, all aspects of life using half-understood pop psychology as a tool.