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What about Gold.......

Posted November 15th, 2011 by Ben Hopkins in Integral Politics, Finance, Gove

Of all collapse scenarios, I think I fear a Russian style imperial collapse, as the most likely for us in the USA. I don’t believe that we will have a full blown Mad Max Collapse, without a biological/nuclear war with other superpowers or terrorist states.

But what about economic collapses; as an empire experiences a decline and heads towards a long term economic depression, with government intervention attempting to “stabilize” the markets, by bailing out banks, creating new spending programs, and intervening in the markets while raising taxes, what is truly valuable? What is value? These things get a bit topsy turvey.

True, value must be understood according to the level of consciousness that “sees” that value. Bartering buffalo skins, and Indian beads in a pre-modern society, to credit cards and credit default swaps in a post modern one. The chart below if from a wonderful website, and all credit belongs to those who have been writing about this long before I.

Ultimately value is only truly “valuable” for its utility. Ammunition and cans of beans are very valuable in a collapse scenario, (red vmeme societal collapse) as they satisfy the lower levels of the hierarchy of needs. In a collapse, the “need” for self actualization falls dramatically as one is most concerned with getting food, finding shelter. Poetry, art, meditation, go out the window, replaced by guns, gold, and militias.

In a developed society a respected “currency” (tradable token/dollar) can be easily converted into goods and services. In fact it is this “currency” which flows between individuals that allows us to develop a complex specialization of trades, professions, work. We all depend on each other and use currency rather than barter to “trade” products and services. You pay me to appraise your real estate for a bank loan, and I pay you to build my house. I don’t have to know how to build a house myself, due to specialization. In that sense, ostrich feathers could be used as currency. As long as it can remain controlled, and relatively rare, (non counterfeited) so as to not dilute its purchasing power.

In comes gold..... Gold has been used for thousands of years, due to its beauty, rarity, and its high relative value in a small package. Gold has been the ultimate check on government. If government spent money efficiently, was not corrupt, if we had a growing economy, low/ reasonable income inequality, with limited poverty, ample opportunity for personal economic advancement, and a stable currency...... IF...... then gold would hold a very stable, low value. But......

Referencing the chart above; dollars, debt contracts, mortgages, all represent a PROMISE TO PAY, in the future. These things themselves are only valuable in that they represent payment IN THE FUTURE. Banks sell and trade mortgages all the time based on their contract interest rate and deduct or increase the mortgages value as compared to the current market interest rate. If interest rates are low now, but you have a 5 year old mortgage at a higher interest rate, then the face value of that older mortgage will rise, since mortgages at that higher rate are currently unavailable since market rates have lowered.

The unique aspect about gold or even commodities is that they represent PAYMENT IN FULL. If you hold a gold coin in your hand, you have ALREADY BEEN PAID. You aren’t waiting for the future for a contract to pay you off. This is called counter party risk; the risk that the counter party to your contract defaults on you. This the core of the Credit Default Swap collapse. As risk of economic collapse increases, then the value of that GOLD IN HAND starts looking really good compared to some financial instrument with a 10 year maturity.

Oil is ultimately the REAL asset of value in the world. The problem with oil is that it’s not easy to store your reserves of wealth in oil, unless you have underground storage tanks at your house. And even then, oil will decompose over time, unlike gold. Oil is also not easy to carry in your pocket or sell over Ebay. On the other hand, gold can easily be converted into ANY CURRENCY in the world.

The fact that gold is increasing in value and demand, is a symptom of the economic disease that we live under; a growing economy, with a strong middle class, and a stable currency would limit gold’s value and possibly make it unnecessary.

Social Security is a Ponzi scheme

Social security is the ultimate example of the promise to pay in the future. First of all, the government didn’t save any of the money that they forced all of its citizens to pay over their working lives “social security tax”. I personally pay 15% of my income into this scheme. Instead of the government saving this money that it forces its citizens to pay, it just blew the money on wars, scandals, policing, bank bailouts, and corporate welfare. The social security “trust fund” consists of “promises to pay” made by the federal government. You see the government has already spent ALL THE GODDAMN MONEY that has ever been paid into social security. This was manageable over the last 30 years, as the baby boomer generation was so large, they could easily pay forward for the elderly. Now that the baby boomers are beginning to retire, the much smaller generation x and y will be required to pay these same benefits out to the baby boomers. All while inflation is increasing, student loan debt has reached unprecedented levels, and unemployment has skyrocketed for our generation. Where will the money come from??? When the government prints money that it is short of, it is just promising to pay in the future by creating money today. This will lead to more and more inflation which will make gold look all that more valuable, as gold can’t be counterfeited in the same way dollars can be created.

It is the lack of credibility in government and in the economic financial instruments that drives value out of the currency and into gold, oil, and other commodities. Gold just happens to be the easiest to transfer, transport, and store.

Also a gold standard (government control of gold) does not work well either. Emperors and rulers throughout history have always spent more on wars than they could actually afford. So they start by mixing their gold coins with other metals to dilute them. Or they make them smaller, but stamp them with a face value that you have to accept, regardless of the actual gold content. When the US was on a gold standard pre 1970’s they spent more money on the Vietnam War and on social spending then they actually had in gold to back it up. When foreign countries (France) wanted to redeem more and more of their dollars for actual gold bars, the US risked losing all their gold, so Nixon took us off the gold standard (closed the gold window, where foreign central banks could trade paper dollars for gold bars). This led straight into the late 70’s inflation and oil price shock as well as declining real estate values, as foreign investors dumped their real estate holdings that were valued in the unstable/declining US dollar.

So far the US has held the dollar together because no other country is on an objective standard (gold or other) and they all have begun to print freely. Also our deal with the Saudis requires that all oil be purchased in dollars, so dollars are essentially oil backed. With most of our armed forces in the Middle East to enforce that system, we still have some time left, before the whole system unwinds. All the socialist countries have promised their citizens everything, but now that the bill is due, there is not enough money to go around. We are so passed the point of “raising taxes” that it’s a joke. We have a sovereign debt crisis that is blowing up all around us.

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NEWSFLASH!

Posted November 18th, 2011 by Jennifer Grove

Integral is not actually interested in implementing solutions.

I believe Brent is correct: As an organization, they have been co-opted (by Orange ways of being) and are now completely compromised as any real effective power for change. At best, KW himself said that Integral has lots of good ideas, but there is no way in Hell they're gonna convince enuf of the voting public to vote for Integral people (I can't find the video. Most of us have already seen it anyway.). He may have even used the term "99%". The limit of Integral effectiveness is that it is energetically stuck accepting structures exactly the way they are and they see no way to change structures because in order to change them they would have to not accept them exactly the way they are. All decision and action for change of the structure itself is automatically interpreted as 1st Tier (usually Green), while decisions and actions for change about what to add to the structure as it is is allowed. KW said that the American Revolution happened during a unique window of time when structural change was still believed to be okay. That window is now closed.

This is quite a pickle for Integral. Many will keep reinforcing the Stage structure for a while by aggressively shutting out Voices (tho sounding enlightened while they're doing it) which are ready to change the structures. I've had my Voice shut out in this way several times - like Brent is describing. They will only advance those who have become well-adjusted to the society that has existed up to this point - since it is totally acceptable - not noticing the performance contradiction that they are committing. I've worked hard to make this shutting out and not-noticing very explicit on my Facebook page. The environment here at IL is too hostile to do any of this work. My goal in the next incarnation of IL will be to provide a safe Exit from Integral.

Here is another audio of KW acknowledging that the Integral shift is now happening, however what he says could easily be interpreted as advocating "Globalizing" solutions instead of solutions that "Think Globally and Act Locally". He doesn't clarify the difference between the technology of governance and the felt circle of care. The implications of this are that he could be inadvertently promoting everything from Imperial Babylon to "The Illuminati". I don't particularly need to "believe in" The Illuminati, but I am able to see that the actions that art attributed to them are still there. Actions which favor Global Government have been and already are at work in the world right now and that is actually what is producing the problems that we're looking at here - not the solutions. Global governance has been the wet dream of Red since forever. And what I'm seeing is that "Integral" in general is not distinguishing. And if this muddying isn't corrected, Integral could quite possibly participate in the destruction of the world once and for all.

However he also said that Turquoise Laws hold the key to putting the next vision into practice. Which gives us a hint about where the better solutions will actually come from:

Not Integral.

--oOo--

Ben,

The so-called "Gold Standard" you're looking at up there is not actually very advanced. That is ascribing value only to material objects which must necessarily be scarce because scarcity = value. This is not part of the solution. There is plenty of better thinking on this available now. But the question isn't: which one idea is best for all? The first question is: which ideas are best for whom? And the next question is: how do we give different individuals and groups what is best for them (because we actually care about all of them) and still keep everything coordinated in such a way as to prevent future mishaps like this.

I like what Foster Gamble has put together in his film "Thrive". He suggested a 3-Step plan to transitioning at least the American economy from where it is now to where it could go. He clearly has some very advanced thinkers in his tank helping him. They know that good-will naturally emerges when everyone has the power to prosper themselves with enuf time and energy to spare on such higher capacities. It can't be legislated or assumed as a given. I would tweak some of the things in his steps, but generally, they are grouped well.

Cut out the cancers
Redirect blood-flow from the tumors to the organs we all depend on
Offer structural support to the resulting emergent functions which favor further strength for all, not the few

What is contained in those steps may vary, but I think he's got a pretty good start on it. He includes the Voices which Integral rejects - perhaps to a fault. But it doesn't matter. If you only do the math and don't become preoccupied with theories about conspiratorial intentions, the result is the same: we're fucked. And those of us who know that and are speaking up about it are being silenced from both below and above, both subtly and not so subtly. I am not alone in believing that someone will soon be paying with their life for speaking out. As David Martin pointed out: "free" doesn't mean what you thot it meant.

"The Left Hand Path, not merely the Right ... must take the lead."

~SES pg. 148

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Posted November 21st, 2011 by admin in response to NEWSFLASH!

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Brilliant!!

Posted November 21st, 2011 by Ben Hopkins in response to [Comment Deleted]

I totally agree that the gold worldview is not very advanced......

However, I do believe that this human connection and even structural banking connection to gold, will continue for a while. It is obviously only valuable to a certain group of believers or perhaps the blue, orange, value system, but it does have some historical/structural/psychological value for its scarcity. This is similar to how antiques, fine art, or diamonds are considered valuable, and probably will be by even 3rd tier individuals. Under the CURRENT system, I think gold will remain and become more valuable. Under a future fully developed second tier values system, this use of gold as money, will most likely be crowded out by alternative currencies, or bit coins or whatever time/value unit we are under. However, it takes a giant leap forward to understand all of that, and in the meantime, as Rome burns, all the politicians and impoverished peasants seem to be magically attracted to shiny gold coins. So I may hold some so that I can trade it for food or land in the medium term as we go through a wicked transition.

On integral accepting structures, in particular, global-anything, done by global-anybody, is fucking scary!

I am in total agreement with you on this. Assuming anything global is second tier will lead us directly into the 4th Reich. It’s really sad that you are talking about helping others make a safe exit from integral. I may trade you some of my gold for a boarding pass on that train. On the old integral forums in 2003ish (integralnaked.com) a big active group of bloggers exited integral and moved over to gaia.com. Once they left, the message boards went dark and you could hear crickets chirp over there.

There has to be a middle path between the illuminati and total nationalism. In Germany, Hitler was fighting against the internationalists and Jewish bankers and freemasons (illuminati) but was developing a hard right nationalistic cult of personality that was racist and driven by war.

I do fear a future hard right dictator type scenario developing in the US, as well as fear an internationalist banker occupation of this country.

It is attractive idealistically to assume that the integral wave will flow across humanity and we will reach an integral tipping point and then we will have real reform and healthy democratic global government with respect for local autonomy (the integral worldview). So let’s just support all the global organizations that we can now (funded by Rothschild’s and Rockefellers) so that later we can “use” them for “good”. It’s really almost cartoonishly naïve. More likely, is that the global government will learn to talk in integral language (Obama) while playing the same games they have played for thousands of years. Suckering the foolish new, fresh out of the green pool, integral minds down the road another fifty years.

Rock and roll bitchezzz!

<If you can hear this, you are the resistance> J. Connor

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2 out of 2 members found this useful.

Great explanation!

Posted November 15th, 2011 by Lincoln Merchant

Thanks, Ben!

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Not much time

Posted November 15th, 2011 by Brian OConnell

What do you think about my post on money here

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Central bank smackdown

Posted November 15th, 2011 by Ben Hopkins in response to Not much time

Hi Brian,

I have also bounced back and forth between perspectives a bit. I understand fully the Austrians rightful attack on Keynesian economics. Since Keynes has been the most popular system since the 70’s when Nixon announced, “we are all keynesians now”.

But one must ask, why does the government like Keynes? The answer is that it allows for an ever increasing monetary base from which to borrow and tax in order to fund wars, the police state, and bailout their friends on Wall Street. The moral hazard has been created, and now hedge funds and quasi- banks, like Goldman Sachs, can have privatized profits, but socialize their losses through bailouts.

That is the great danger in Keynesianism. However, as you said, when reading Web of Debt, we realize how the issuance of credit or money, is truly the right of the people. If money doesn’t represent any physical commodity, than it simply represents the faith in the American worker and citizen. If this is the case, than the US people should have some democratic say in its issuance. While Ellen Brown’s book, is right on many issues, the danger of having a totally freely issued currency is that there is always the danger of the public granting themselves more and more credit in order to buy houses again, that they blow up another huge bubble.

Once alternative that I like comes from the free gold advocates, who say that currency shouldn’t be backed by anything, and that all countries should be able to freely issue their currency debt free. This will allow them the room to expand their economies. However if a country expands too fast, or makes bad investments than that countries currency would decline in value. Free gold would have gold free and clear of all taxes and laws on ownership, so that its true market value could float alongside other paper currencies and act as a measuring stick.

The problem with the post modern monetary perspective of our current Keynesian system is that all values are relative. If a bank is undercapitalized and bankrupt, than we just change the accounting standards and end mark to market accounting, thus presto... The bank is magically solvent again. If market interest rates start to rise to reflect the increase in the supply of money, presto chango.... the federal reserve starts buying enough bonds that their interest rates magically fall. This is totally opposite of reality.

An integral system will have to return an objective value/ranking system. An integral system should include the We perspective that you talked about in your post, but first it must establish just WTF is value and valuable?

An integral system should allow flexibility. There could be freely traded gold and silver to compete with the paper currencies, but also electronic credit in order to ease transactional exchange among consumers at stores.

However the issuance of currency, the feudal federal reserve system, must be altered and abolished. There would still have to be a central currency for clearing transactions between sovereign countries. This would especially become an issue, if the US for example, had multiple paper currencies covering different geographical areas. Again this type of system would bode well for gold, as it is universally accepted and valued in all currencies. It may become a more important trading unit for government to government payments, and between central banking institutions, if they still exist.

Above all, we need flexibility in the system, not a government controlled gold market (gold standard) or a never ending feudal debt pileup to the central banks like we have today. Our sweat and tears, our human capital, is the value of our currency, but its being debased and accounted against us for interest payments, that we will never be able to pay off.

<If you can hear this, you are the resistance> J. Connor

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Good stuff

Posted November 18th, 2011 by Brian OConnell in response to Central bank smackdown

I am with you that currencies of all types should be allowed to compete. And this is what I am promoting in link at bottom of posted link above. The the three systems Capital System/ Credit system and Mind share system would be able to determine value, like you said needed to happen. Not sure if you checked link at bottom. Let me know what you think.

Here is the link at bottom of link above, Integral Economics

Thats alot of linking

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Cheers

Posted November 15th, 2011 by Brent Simpson in response to Central bank smackdown

I am really bummed that this community has not stepped up on this one yet (particularly Ken). I tried a year ago to get a chapter into Sean Hargens recently published book on critiques of Integral theory which directly correlates with your topic here. However, it was denied (I did get an interesting experience out of it I think addressed at the end of this video: here) In all honesty you Brian and a few others, I consider the most important voices out there in the world at this time. As there are so few that have a relatively deep grasp of integrative thinking in relation to what has ACTUALLY been happening in the LR. I can see how integral thinking has been coopted into the governance structure to serve RED power needs and twisted pathologies that seem to come with it. (Roughly Red-Yellow coupling in a Darth Vader-like fashion) through simul-casting multiple value-systems... Strangely!!! this integral community sees this, as some have noted Obama's ability to do it! But for some reason are not addressing the kind of fruit that has come from this simulcasting (which has been pretty rotten). It shows me that the integral community cannot take the incompetent card that seriously (which is a common response to the presentation of this kind of information. E.g. why is government so bad? well they are just incompotent)... as they know that the politicans have to be cognitively wise enough to do the integral simulcasting but still seem to believe there is a real distinction within the governance structure between left and right that is holding the process up (or at least that is what I am getting out of many peoples responses here)! Note: I do really like Wilbers idea on the distinction of the emphasis of the Left being exterior-focused and Right interior-focused. But this misses the bigger issue of verticle integration of the money-power through the institutions themselves is left unaddressed IMO... this is all designed in a major way and what may look like incompentance is actually part of the desired process for those leading this political "Wizard of OZ" down the long road of Totalitarian tiptoe (as Icke puts it). I could rant on and on and on and on.... but I just wanted to say thank you for continuing to voice your concerns on these matters! I believe your voice is more important now than ever! Let's get Wilber to see this matter more clearly via a ground-up swell within this site as his voice could be VERY impactful and his ability to make distinctions highly useful once the light gets turned on within him (e.g. he had to get introduced to Buddhism and its sophisticated philosophies to become arguably one of the most advanced practioners of state training this planet hs ever seen the same may go here... he needs intelligible voices to raise these issues before he is really going to take them seriously).

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What about Gold.......

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NEWSFLASH!

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Brilliant!!

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Great explanation!

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Not much time

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Central bank smackdown

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Good stuff

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Cheers

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Thanks Brent