Would Jesus Have Shut His Mouth?

Trauma gives us tunnel vision. I should know. So, let me trade mine for yours and we'll see how we come out.

You are incorrect about some things here. And, ironically, you are demonstrating the correctness of what you say you despise. The cliches that you are using to put down C'ianity have been prepared, packaged and distributed by masters of spin since before you or I were born. The methods of creating these ideas and images is the same used in "Magic", and you have bought it all hook, line and sinker. As we all have, and continue to a daily basis about so many things.

It's easy to be jaded. But the Integral plan includes practice with the 2nd Person of God. And that 2nd Person of God is created using the methods of Magic - whichever type of magic you choose. Your body and soul require the magic of image and story in order to function properly. If you don't learn how to choose your myths and illusions, they will be chosen for you and you will be led by the nose wherever they want you to go. Part of us must bow down to something greater. It is what the Erotic impulse to evolve latches onto like a baby to a breast. We must have it or we will shrivel into an impotent mass. There is nothing wrong with it. And there is nothing to fear once we have learned how to choose because there is also a part of us that doesn't need to bow down. And that will be with us too. Because we will have this choice and this freedom, worship of a mythic "God" will no longer be a threat to us in any way. It can now be one of the most erotic and beautiful parts of life.

Most probably Jesus did know what would happen, because there's no way He would have known the Good that would come of it if He hadn't also known of the Evil. Evil. That's E-V-I-L  --  Evil. That icky part of duality we would love to wash from our lives with so much anti-bacterial soap. There is no Good without Evil - and there has been much Good. But if you're thinking of using that to further fuel your cynicism against Him, walk a mile in the shoes of someone who could see all the way to the Omega Point and saw the best way to get people ready for it at the stage they were at and then made it happen in the 3 years He would have to dedicate before they came to take His life. Do you really think one should shrink from such a responsibility? Really?

--oOo--

Okay. Time to cool the jets a bit. This type of thing gets me goin' pretty seriously. I have had the opposite conditioning as you. I was terrorized by a Randian Atheist Objectivist Mother who would not allow me to speak of God. When I was a young teen, she explicitly rejected and mocked me for thinking of God. I had to seek Him in secret, and I lost much when I found Him. So, I have had trauma too, but of the opposite sort. Don't buy into all that crap about how you believe what you do because you're rational and evolved and smart. You believe what you do as a reaction to being hurt. And your refusal to believe in a mythic God is the bleeding wound.

What I'm getting from Rumi right now is that we encounter that which saves us within our wounds. Our desperate pain and need is our only means of connection to that which is Greater than ourselves. And this need charges the image with the power to save. It also gives the power to abuse, so you will have to learn to strengthen yourself and push past the freeze response and learn to trust into some kind of image and story that you build with the intention to nurture your wounded self. There is no other way.

I have to make my peace with Atheism. And I've done much work with this. Integral has helped me alot. Trusting into the 1st and 3rd Person of God has been very difficult for me. All my red flags and sirens go off around it and I don't trust anyone to lead me there. I will trust no tradition or lineage that disparages the 2nd Person. No polemic. This is one reason why I use Holosync. It takes the toxic stories and images out of it. I've also learned to love Nietzsche. I love him so much. And along with many other Christians, I believe I understand him better than many true Atheists. I don't care what they say. He did more to resurrect Christ than the Church has ever done. I have learned to love Satanists - many of whom love Ayn Rand and Nietzsche. I get it. I push into it and look for the balm for my wounds and it is there.

Religions don't kill. People do. Damaged people who don't understand and continue to abuse out of their own pain and rage. Don't repeat the problem as it's shadow.

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[has that already been done?]

Hi Billy,

It seems to me we may want to start at a different place, rather than saying what is wrong with the traditions we may want to begin with what is right and what teachings are essential for carrying this forward. All I can work with is Christianity but I think it could attract more than Christians. I have felt for some time now that the reason for inquiry or expressing what we believe is merely to find an agreement among this community. If I say something and cannot find it resonating with anyone else I either have said it incorrectly or have my own shadow and integration to perform. Another thing to consider is that I am responsible for listening at a level that includes the collective, now this does not mean the chatter

ad-nauseam - it means the subtle resonance of the higher direction in which we are flowing as a community. This we need to maintain confidence in and happens when we faithfully practice its precepts. This may be another definition or essential aspect of the teachings that we carry forward.

This reminds me of Autonomy’s post “How to talk to me”, if we can get this right we will have succeeded at both; so maybe that might be a good place to start. He speaks of Mystery and in my opinion he will not be questioned in the normal ways that logic dictate, I have hardly been able to reply to his comments because I knew that he was not following the same dictates of language and as he said today “culture“.

So my question is how do we respond, since we need to respond to each other we take the frame that Autonomy sets and we integrally language it. To begin with we must set aside the question and answer order and also the action and outcome order, it seems to me we follow a new order and in so doing it rearranges our thinking completely.

To begin with I would like to describe some elements of this order; it sees as a context without knowing the contents - the contents were set by previous thought but at this level it has no access to that. It has the ability to imagine those things that are resonating objects of its beauty and what one senses as perfection but then describing this the handicap is the fact that one cannot create the same environment for the listener or reader. The description does not relay the context it can only relay one bit of a content that resides as imagination.

Maybe by now you are asking what the hell is she talking about? I do have point with all of this it is just taking me some time to set the background. This is what we are dealing with when trying to envision the undercurrent of which we all are being pulled and I believe we will wash up on some beach and find it to be completely wonderful.

Forgive me if I sound insensitive but I cannot look at the problems we face from this direction, I cannot take a problem and follow it through with a solution. This is the new order I speak of, it knows the problems already - they are built into the context. What is also built in is the way in which those things are transcended and transformed into something else…the next step. Yet this is not defined and we do not base our determinism on any apparent designator, instead we follow the flow of context and we know because we resonate with both language and action among the collective.