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Questions

Posted October 13th, 2011 by chris emerson

If I as spirit started all this because I got bored...should I be in any hurry to wake up again? Would it be cool to delay my enlightenment as long as possible for a bigger adventure? My thinking to the contrary is that I can see people, who are like me, suffer and the Goodness inherent in my conscience would tell me I need to wake up ASAP so I can skillfully help them. But then again once you wake up you realize there are no others... Ken says because there are no others you vow to save them all...but where is he getting that from? How is it true?

Some of this is coming up from some pressure I feel to awaken. Some internally and some externally that I believe is being put on by awake people. But their pressure is in the name of alleviating suffering, right? Is it also in the name of protecting the Good (and the True and the Pretty)?

Can't it be good in the long run to suffer for a while? And necessary to be asleep for a while? How long is too long?

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It's not

Posted October 13th, 2011 by Shikha Sabharwal

In response to your question about how it is true that when you wake up there are no others: it isn't; it isn't true. There are still others, interconnected though we all are. Perhaps this confusion originated in our (humanity's) confusion between ourselves and the Divine. If You, Yourself, Are God, there are no others, in the sense that You, Yourself, include All That Is, and everything ever is a part of Your Great Self. If, however, You are not the One Divine (Who, i believe, is also referred to as The True Self)- then in that case, there are still others. You can view others as a phenomenon of your own mind, or mind complex, or you can view others as 'others'. You can relate to others as you would relate to your own self, if you could divide yourself thusly.

While there are certain teachings, which have tried to convince or simply inform me that 'I am God' in my deepest truth or whatever, this is simply not true. (I, personally, cannot snow, for example). We can empathize with the Divine force that runs through and connects and surrounds us, the expression(s) of God to our senses, but saying that I myself am God, is not only inaccurate, but has led to harmful views of how I should relate to all I perceive as 'other'. We are God's Other. What is missing from some teachings, in the context of perceiving and recognizing the always mindful ever-present only ever, is the conversation.

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Hi Shikha,

Posted October 14th, 2011 by chris emerson in response to It's not

I was referring to me as The One Divine!

"(I, personally, cannot snow, for example)."

Just because you can't control something means it's not you? Ken talks about walking up as a process of expanding your identity. I think there can eventually be many aspects out of your control, but you still consider you, for better or worse.

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hi c

Posted October 14th, 2011 by Shikha Sabharwal in response to Hi Shikha,

"Just because you cannot control something means it's not you?"

I'm not sure whether or not i would agree with that. I do experience certain effects, which, though i can organize my perception in such a way that these effects, these experiences of circumstance that i can know, feel, and/or perceive- relate to the experience i can choose, create, or imagine- the effects themselves can really have nothing to do with me, as in, i am not the cause of certain effects to which i may or may not choose to respond. In that sense, there is another, The It Who Snows. The Snower, if you like.

It might be clarifying to consider the difference between 'to consider' and 'to remember'.? idk.

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like this?

Posted October 15th, 2011 by Annie in response to Hi Shikha,

If nothing can be known without relationship; what can be known of other bodies or all forms of manifestation? When we willfully engage with animate or inanimate manifestation we must do so with the properties of that manifestation. Our physical bodies are not transported to that engagement intact, we are not one form moving with another form, we are the same form within consciousness. All that we can know is movement within the confines of that specific union, without applying a will that derives from another form we can only "will" what erupts from the existing form. I would only be guessing to call it "will", because frankly, it seems that the engagement is the entirety of the effort.

And then...we must remember what is Real and what is illusory; the Real has no quality that needs to exert Will, rather it moves in its specific course. Illusory on the other hand is that which one confines and then battles against it.

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changing sides

Posted October 15th, 2011 by Shikha Sabharwal in response to like this?

i guess it is a little presumptuous to imagine we can truly 'take another's perspective' in relationship, when there are so many options, sooo many possibilities, but the fundamental feeling is one of something being wrong, like somehow there's some kind of deception going on to protect an ego from any kind of recognition or contact.

it does indeed seem like the engagement is the entirety of the effort.

are you saying you do/do not feel it is worth the effort? i'm just thinking, like if it is worth it, i'm maybe not understanding why or how, but maybe you're saying it isn't worth sooo much effort, when we're just sooo tired of it already, we're dependent on others who aren't following through, or that i expect something to be there, and it's just not there anymore, it's not in real-time, clinging to a memory, that we don't seem to even remember, actually, so we put ourselves in the position of being victim to the patterns that we have created, that no longer serve our highest good, but without memory, there is no learning, all we have to go on, i'd guess, is a knowing or believing about what i'm supposed to want, so i do what i need to do to get me what i'm supposed to want, or closer-

but not having learned, continue to make the same-

well, there's no way out of a one-sided dialogue about nothing clear and no direction. the only way is 1. to stop 2. to actually listen

and then i let go of resentments, past hurt, i become clearer that i'm not responsible for another's experience, we maintain choice in the matter, it continues from there.

right?

the question is where we focus our trust, maybe. how we define the space between, where we focus, which space has priority

i notice trying to find a fight where there really just isn't any one else fighting.

o! clarifying the difference between the past, which cannot be changed, and the future, which we don't know yet. recognizing and acknowledging the one, deciding the other

the problem lies in not knowing what so much time could be saved for, even! for what purpose. forget it, the whole thing is just false, incorrigable (sp?) because it makes absolutely no sense at all, and therefore does not need to be identified as either 'right' or 'wrong'.

i reneg that last statement. choice is, in fact, real.

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ok

Posted October 16th, 2011 by Annie in response to changing sides

Hi Shikha,

I have plenty of issues; such as the ones you mention but that is not what I was speaking of. Oh but I guess you know this, and maybe you are asking me how I live within the confines of the messy details; of my particular life?

Just so you know...I tell you things that I have had experience with but not all experience is the same. Sometimes I have experience that has no relationship to this body (that I can correlate) but yet I feel a certainty that is undeniable. Hanging around here at IL, I know that my own certainty must be examined according to the self that feels it, or the self that articulates it and both can fall short in the experience.

Listening to the new dialogue with Ken and Barbara I felt so relieved when I heard her mention that the felt impossibility was no match for the reality of what is emerging (my words-her sentiment). It was also extremely relevant that I heard Ken laugh on that audio more than I had ever heard him laugh before. My heart soared while listening!

Just like me, Barbara and Ken can talk about all of this and it does nothing to add to the reality that we are speaking of, I see it only as a validation where others will dare to take part in the activities that this invites us to.

Well, back to the messy details...I choose just like you do. Some days better than others, and it pains me to think that my choices can actually affect greater outcomes than those I can witness. I don't know if this is a side-effect or direct result, but most times I operate on autopilot but without a plane (or body), this I know is kinda fucked up. Btw, I just recently heard on FB that they have a website called Unfucked up, we are to submit articles on how we have managed to unfuck something up (haha). Very clever! Something I could start to think about. What would you want to unfuck up?

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christ, annie

Posted October 16th, 2011 by Shikha Sabharwal in response to ok

i love you

i don't know what i was asking you...but yeah, i'd like to know.

yeah, i know. whatever. thank god you can still be happy.

"Just like me, Barbara and Ken can talk about all of this and it does nothing to add to the reality that we are speaking of, I see it only as a validation where others will dare to take part in the activities that this invites us to."

-i don't get what you mean by that; while i could guess, i'd prefer razor sharp clarity, if you feel you would bring yourself to facilitate this.

"Well, back to the messy details...I choose just like you do. Some days better than others, and it pains me to think that my choices can actually affect greater outcomes than those I can witness. I don't know if this is a side-effect or direct result, but most times I operate on autopilot but without a plane (or body), this I know is kinda fucked up. "

wow, that's interesting. sounds like you might be deeply affected by the details. sensitive, in that way. all you want is a little kindness. why wouldn't someone give it to you? consistent, respectful kindness would be better. seems like you don't care whether it's patronizing or not. correct me if i'm mistaken?

like the delicate structure of a mosquito, here as a surface on which to project the demonstration of how it's supposed to be. it sucks, i bet.

help me?

-anyone can, shown how. it has to be consistent.

what would i want to unfuck up? separation.

yourself?

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bittersweet

Posted October 17th, 2011 by Annie in response to christ, annie

Hi Shikha,

I just finished listening to the rest of the audio with Barbara and Ken and I thought that maybe you understood my comment as a negation of what they were saying regarding the need for conscious participation? Or building the Arc before the floods come! That was not my intention, rather I said that because so much of what I experience is as a trust (or confidence) that I am consenting -- happens outside the scope of my own physical locality and action. But Ken said something that hit me like a ton of bricks; we are arriving at the place in history when we can affect change and direction for this evolution, citing nanotechnology and the like. What makes me wonder now is how do we define these actions, and how do we define our modes of listening and response. It is quite confusing really because we don't have a language for it and we don't have the thought patterns that translate this activity...although we intuit that we are active. This begs the question, can we be conscious of something that cannot translate to our physical form? Pictures flood the mind of nonsensical images, something of a contrast; black and white or light and dark, and from there after our minds adjust to the chaos we try to stop forming images - just to remain stable within our own bodies.

I notice that I have no "will" to speak of, and yet I tell myself I am there as the only expression I can muster, which is Love. Another thing comes to mind; does it matter that I witness this because in part I sense that regardless of the mind that becomes overwhelmed, there I am participating without it (mind). From that perspective...talk is cheap. We cannot say "we" are really doing anything, because "we" at that point cannot be distinguished. Maybe we need to find the words to describe what "I" is doing?

Oh "patronizing", well my friend that turns out to be something of a on or off condition, not the degree of rightness or wrongness. I say "HELL NO" and don't get me started!! My dad use to say "shit or get off the pot" and I too find the difficulty in giving it all we have or not giving at all, but this pretense or playing dumb drives me crazy and I for one am within that crisis of crisis's. Every time I open my mouth to speak, I first critique what I am about to say with how well I myself both believe it and live it. I confess that sometimes I fall incredibly short - and it is those times that I only speak because I am working through it or I feel like if I don't say it, I will explode.

Unfuck up? My body :-(

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Pleasure&Joy...

Posted October 15th, 2011 by vernpeace

hi Chris...

why...not...have...both?

in...context!

peace&love...vern

p.s...a...little...poison...cures

...and...to...much...of...a...good

...thing...kills!

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Awakening

Posted October 16th, 2011 by tanya charlie

Chris, when the time comes for your awakening, you will come to know that who you think you are, your core being engaged in this experience, never actually existed. The truth is, only the experience exists. This means you see others trapped in a state of imagining themselves to be separate. The impulse the awakened being has left is the almost unbearable desire to help others taste this freedom for themselves! This is matched only with utter contentment because they are perfect the way they are, you don't need them to awaken. The great paradox of enlightenment awaits you! Blessings.

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Pretty's okay.

Posted October 16th, 2011 by Shikha Sabharwal

But you know what they say about all that glitters, and to be real, gold ain't worth much anyhow.

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