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What does religion have to offer to people at healthy orange or higher?

Posted August 5th, 2011 by David Fishel
On a different thread Stanley posted this --
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Could we consider another related question?

 

What does religion have to offer to people at healthy orange or higher?
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I'd be happy to have that discussion too, so here goes with some questions that jump to mind for discussion:
  • what are they -- healthy orange and higher -- getting out of religion now?
  • what does healthy orange religion actually look like?  If it is like the "syncretic Christianity" (hat tip to  Ross Hostetter for the term) of the US in the 20th century, does it even exist anymore?  Can it?  What is the new healthy syncretic religion model?
  •  what's the difference between healthy and unhealthy orange religion? 
  • One question I've thought a lot about is "why bother with religion (specifically Christianity) at all?" Why not do the spiritual development from scratch?  Why bother with all the baggage? (Not to mention all your fellow "christians"...)

And my first response to the original question:

One thing it seems to offer is a community of like minded people. My experience as a (fairly) healthy orange atheist was that it's hard to find a community of people with a large set of common values and experience. You can find atheists everywhere, but they are darned hard to organize as a group to do something like staffing the local Food Bank for a month on a regular basis. I think that community and continuity is why you'll find a surprising number of agnostics/atheists in the remaining mainline churches, especially for traditional holidays and events.  Being healthy non-theists, they aren't there to pick a fight....

A truly healthy orange/green religion should, ideally, understand that it is the conveyor belt, and treat its members accordingly. Provide stability and support for those at that stage.  So a healthy orange+ should expect to get an increasing level of spiritual development from ones religion. Unfortunately, nearly all churches seem have the conveyor belts stuck... 

 

 

 

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There's no religion

Posted August 6th, 2011 by Shikha Sabharwal

that brings forth love, that emphasizes love, so much as Christian faith has.

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Similar

Posted August 6th, 2011 by Jennifer Grove

For whatever reason, Integral is focusing too much on telling us what to think and not enuf in how to think. What's important here is not what worldviews people adopt, but that the individual think and act autonomously. They needn't destroy what others think or even what they used to think, they should simply be permitted to think for themselves and learn how to do that. Questioning is good. They need special spaces to do that. They should be given all the materials they need to investigate phenomena and make conclusions on their own. Encouraging them is very important so that they don't simply react and then dig in to another stuck position that becomes just as dogmatic or more than they one they are reacting to.

There are some good ideas here about how to create those spaces, but it is important to remember: it is not appropriate for them to disturb the spaces of others who are still learning what to think and how to act. That is an important Stage also.

[edited for correction]

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"The Left Hand Path, not merely the Right ... must take the lead."

~SES pg. 148

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My Opinion

Posted August 6th, 2011 by Stanley

In my opinion what it should be able to offer is a genuine Spiritual "experience" (realization of Reality) which is even more real that our rational thoughts and perceptions. I believe that in the early days Christianity could offer this "experience" through the blessing of the Holy Spirit. It would be a terrible shame if this was no longer available. Without the influence and inspiration of the Holy Spirit I would question the value of trying to keep the Christian religion going.

 

Once a person has this "experience" then religion could offer a person a map that is at the Worldcentric or higher level. This is where integral could prove to be very valuable; but I think people would need to have the "experience" referred to above for this to really stick and be meaningful in a deep way; otherwise integral would just be some meaningless intellectual exercises.

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Unitarian Universalists?

Posted August 6th, 2011 by Mark Grammer

These are the only people I've come across in Texas who mobilize the orange/green outcasts in this direction of public service and something of an attempt toward notions of spiritual development and practice. They seem to be dying for Integral Theory really. The sole focus on pluralism is wearing thin for them.

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Confirmation...

Posted August 9th, 2011 by Jennifer Grove

I found an article today confirming what I've been saying for years.

"3) Most Christians across history have not read the Bible literally."

What this means is that one of the healthy forms of Orange Christianity is literal belief in the Bible. Orange is all about the data and the facts. You can hear it in the way they talk. It's no longer about submitting to Authority. It's about the Truth. It isn't Christianity or even literal faith in the Bible that causes wars. It's the complete and total certainty of the mind that it has acquired the Absolute Truth and the unthinkability of error that makes violence seem okay.

Watch what happens to you when you are told that what you KNOW to be true and real is completely incorrect and false. Watch what arises inside of your own interior. See the violence that you are ready and willing to do to them even if only in words. It doesn't matter what it is that you believe. If you are convinced that you are capable of and have successfully apprehended the Truth with your own faculties, being challenged can bring up highly flammable if not explosive impulses and emotions. It is very likely that you will feel no regard for the interiors of those who are challenging you and words will come out of your mouth or keyboard that are unkind.

If we Integralists don't learn and teach how to get perspective on our believing minds, things are going to get out of hand pretty soon. No one else will lead the way.

--

"The Left Hand Path, not merely the Right ... must take the lead."

~SES pg. 148