Making sense of Typology?

Hi David,

I think it's an interesting subject.

How is the auyervedic system given to pre-trans fallacy? It seems to me that the dosha system (pitta, vata, kapha) is quite profound. Any metaphysical aspects about it could be easily jettisoned, recasting them as kosmic habits. And of course the food choices and such wouldn't necessarily line up for people in different cultures and considering other factors, like genetics.

Personally I like to keep in mind communal/agentic, different cultural types (American, French, Chinese, Northern American, Southern American, etc.), the dosha system--I get a little stumped after that because I haven't really taken to any other type system. The enneagram's okay, but something doesn't feel really profound about it.

I also think it's best not to look for the perfect typology but integrate a few different ones.

Best,

David

Okay apparently Clint made a computer overview thingy [embarrased].  I'll check this out now...

edit:  Okay so it basically just runs through the simplest: masculine/feminine.  I already know this stuff--I think I want to know which particular typologies you all personally choose to use in your daily actions and understandings of yourself and your place in the world at large (and how that influences chosen career, hobbies, diet, etc)

Love love lovelovelove :)

Since Theophrastus inherited the Lyceum from Aristotle people have tried to "type" human personality. The yearning is genuine and the efforts over 2300 years have been nothing short of heroic but they have all failed. David Zeitler and I address this in our upcoming book on Integral Psychotherapy. As psychological constructs typologies fail on every level from validity to reliability. But, with all things Integral, there is something more. I feel that Ken Wilber appreciates that notions of typology have little psychometric value but have use as metaphors or myths. In this respect a typology offers a story we can explore ourselves through. Like any tool these can be used toward honesty about one's self-sense or deception. There is no support for the Enneagram or MBTI as having reliability in the psychological sense. However, if a client comes in and tells me they are an ENFJ, they are sharing a story with me that we can start from and weave outward. Ontologically we don't "know" what we "are" (but what's the surprise there? We don't even understand what dark matter is). A typology can be viewed as a "style" we try on and may stay with or may move on from. Viewed fluidly as styles typologies can be a tool in telling the story of the self. Viewed concretely I think they are simply another scam that "for-profit prophets" use to milk the gullible. So I guess my view is that the intent one approaches the type system with is the key -especially if others have put themselves under your care. Ethically as a psychologist I cannot endorse types as a psychological construct and as a psychotherapist I can engage a story about types if it helps the client make aspects of herself objects of awareness.

MBTI: As for the MBTI, it provides us with insights into our personality as it relates to the environment. Here though, we are dealing with specific functions of consciousness and which ones our personalities prefer without any concern of what the origin of these habits of personality are. This makes reliability even more of a problem because there is no underlying process (like the enneagram's Basic Fear and Basic Desire) which we can reference  to ground any phenomenological consistency (more of this covered in the later). Couple this with the it's lack of objective validity and reliability we find that the reaction of astonishment is most suitable when observing the large influence this system has had in its widespread use among businesses. Regardless, many people do find this system useful, as I have, in insight, personal discovery and life choices. Understanding how we relate to the environment helps us understand how we relate with people and where and how the kinks in the hermeneutics of our messy social intersections occur. As it may be obvious to some, this system deals solely with the ego and has no merit in  spiritual discussions. However, it can be of benefit to shadow work (as it has for me) in determining where your shadow lies. Jung's original conception of the type system included the understanding that our opposite type is our least used type and therefore most unconscious and buried in the psyche. This leaves it well suited for projection, as Jung stated often happens and sometimes went as far as saying this is only what our shadow will look like. 

Why does Typology seem the odd man out in Wilber's Integral System?

To find out why, you will have to trace in Wilber's writing his thoughts on archetypes.  It's not pretty.  Wilber has made some fundamental assumptions/assertions which may or may not be valid.  Missapplication of the Pre/Trans Fallacy is itself a StrawMan Fallacy.

In a nutshell, for Wilber there are two archetypes.  The Jungian archetypes and the "Real" archetypes.   He does not acknowledge the possibility that the archetypes as patterns, as they manifest on the various planes of existence may express (a pattern expressing in particular form) appropriate to that plane, and that therefore, the Jungian archetype is just a view of the Real archetype taken at the mental/emotional/personality level.  For example, on the mental plane, these archetypes may take form as images, or as types of human personality, etc...  Jung investigated the archetypes in dreams and myth, because his focus was as a psychiatrist in trying to help folks in their emotional/mental problems - he was not trying to come up with a grand unifying theory, as far as I know.

The missing link (or grand unifiying theory) is one which can account for the archetype's expression up and down the great chain of being (or the planes of manifestation).  Where does this missing link lie?  It lies in the Western Esoteric Tradition - a "Tradition" about which we hear very little from Wilber.  Example:  The Qabalistic Tree of Life on the four planes of manifestation (Atziluth, Briah, Yetzirah, Assiah), the letters of the sacred Hebrew alphabet, etc..

Perhaps Wilber is taking Freud's advice to avoid the "black mud of occultism" at all costs?

Joe.