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Be rational (orange), kind (green) and ? (teal)

Posted November 7th, 2008 by Helen Davis in Evolution

Recently Robb asked for ideas for the principles of integral living. It made me think of what I say to my students at the end of a module on management - specifically managing people. I ask them to remember, whatever else they forget about what I've tried to teach them, to be rational (the best from orange), and kind (the best from green) and where the two conflict, to err on the side of kindness. I would love to add an adjective from teal, but simply can't think of one. Any ideas?

Helen

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Inclusive ?

Posted November 7th, 2008 by Jerry Sherwood

Just a suggestion. I hope others contribute as well. I think this is a great exercise to see how teal is embodied and expressed.

Jerry

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Like it

Posted November 7th, 2008 by Helen Davis in response to Inclusive ?

Yes, I like that. I tried applying it, not just to my students in their workplaces, but the USA President Elect. Yes, we'd like him to be rational, kind and inclusive. (And, going off on a different topic, his background would seem to suggest he's in a good position to be this.) Wow! What a world this would be with a rational, kind and inclusive encumbent of the White House!

That led me to thinking about alternatives (though I like 'inclusive'). Other possible attributes of teal are now coming to mind, and my iron test of suitability will be - "Is this something you'd prefer the President of the United Staes to put 'rationality' and 'kindness' to one side for if it clashed with them?!"

One last thing occurs to me (at the moment). Red and orange seem to revolve around the individual. Amber and green seem to revolve more around relationship and community. Does this swinging from one to the other stop at second tier? Or is teal more concerned with the individual again?

Helen

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Nothing like a gentle nudge

Posted November 7th, 2008 by Jerry Sherwood in response to Like it

Isn't it great that when we finally come to the conclusion that we are stuck and reach out for a little help just a gentle nudge will push us out of our rut? I hope you will keep us informed of your solution. Your criteria is superb.

In response to your final musings; it is generally agreed that Teal (yellow in I-SD) is "more concerned with the individual again." However, the symbol of the spriral as used by I-SD is shaped like a vortex. That is to say that it is wider at the top than at the bottom. If you were to look down on the spiral from above it would be a spiraling out of more and more inclusive rings. In fact, one of the perennial symbols of spiritual development was the concentric circles. So, what does this imply?

Even though we cycle through periods of growth with alternate emphasis on agency and communion each turn of the spiral is more inclusive that the previous. Therefore, each "level" will inherantly be more communally oriented.

Two other characteristics of the spiral come to mind. First, it is a continous line. There is not a "leap" or "step" from one level to the next it is more akin to a gradually rising road. Conscious development has an element of continuity in it, with the later connected to the prior.

Second, although there is a line drawn between the individual and relationship sides of the spiral it seems to me that it would be more accurate to see the maximum of each trait to be at the extremes of either side. This would indicate that there is a gradual shifting from relational to individual (and vice versa) as we turn around the spiral.

Just some thoughts

Thanks for the prompt

Jerry--

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Posted November 7th, 2008 by admin
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Interdependent

Posted November 7th, 2008 by Helen Davis in response to [Comment Deleted]

Many thanks for responding to this. I remember when I was training to be a counsellor we talked about moving from dependence to independence to interdependence - it's a very satisfying model. What would that mean in practice for my students? They get faced with a situation at work. Say it's the need to make several members of staff redundant. They know to do it rationally and kindly -make the right people redundant and ensure that what you're doing makes long term sense as well as the short term sense (rational), help them find another job by supplying contacts and training, keep in touch with them til they're resettled and beyond (kindly) How will the interdependence manifest? In remembering that what goes around, comes around? (e.g. you may need those staff back one day.)

I'm on a roll now - what would it mean in the actions of the President of the USA?!

H.

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Inclusive? Like it

Posted November 7th, 2008 by Helen Davis

Yes, I like that. I tried applying it, not just to my students in their workplaces, but the USA President Elect. Yes, we'd like him to be rational, kind and inclusive. (And, going off on a different topic, his background would seem to suggest he's in a good position to be this.) Wow! What a world this would be with a rational, kind and inclusive encumbent of the White House!

That led me to thinking about alternatives (though I like 'inclusive'). Other possible attributes of teal are now coming to mind, and my iron test of suitability will be - "Is this something you'd prefer the President of the United Staes to put 'rationality' and 'kindness' to one side for if it clashed with them?!"

One last thing occurs to me (at the moment). Red and orange seem to revolve around the individual. Amber and green seem to revolve more around relationship and community. Does this swinging from one to the other stop at second tier? Or is teal more concerned with the individual again?

Helen

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Knowledge and competency

Posted November 7th, 2008 by sham609

Okay, just to clarify a point. Inclusion is actually a Green meme attribute. Teal (or Yellow in Spiral Dynamics) is most concerned with knowledge and competency as the frame of reference. It is a stage that does place renewed emphasis on the individual (for only the individual can acquire knowledge and competence). Teal reinvigorates hierarchical thinking over inclusive thinking. This is the first stage that can recognize, however, the preceding stages of development and their value to human existence and development. It is also the first stage that can fairly recognize the limitations of each first tier stages of consciousness. It is only with the emergence of Turquoise that the interaction of a fully developed human (Teal) with Spirit (or a Schopenhauerian "Will") leads to a higher order of consciousness that truly leaves the concept of "self" behind.

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Yes, but ......

Posted November 8th, 2008 by Jerry Sherwood

Yes, Green (postmodernism) does value inclusion, especially with respect to previously marginalized groups. Inclusion on the Green level entails a flattening out of values, everything is equal. (except of course any value that contradicts the idea that all values are equal)

However, Teal has its own version of inclusion. To paraphrase Steve McIntosh, in Integral Consciousness; Teal recognizes that there are lasting values of each stage that have and continue to contribute to the spiral. As such they are included by Teal in its larger picture of what constitutes that which is good and worthwhile.

Any quality valued by Teal can be said to have a 1st tier correlation. Knowledge and competence in one sense can be said to be an Orange value, insofar as knowledge and competence aid  individual achievement. Whereas, Teal values knowledge and competence for how these qualities contibute to the spiral itself. As such they are not exclusively individual traits.

Thank you for the opportunity to clarify.

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Yes

Posted November 8th, 2008 by sham609 in response to Yes, but ......

Yes, that is exactly right. In Teal the knowledge and power is "tempered" by a system-wide thinking, as well as recognition of the limits of knowledge. The inclusiveness of Teal is not as warm and fuzzy as Green inclusiveness, but it is deeper and wider.

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competent inclusiveness

Posted November 8th, 2008 by Jerry Sherwood in response to Yes

You might say that Teal demonstrates competency in their inclusiveness. A competency that comes from a thorough understanding (knowledge) of the enduring values of the spiral and how they are shifted according to stage specific needs.

For Teal these values are applied in service to the health of the spiral itself. As such Teal encourages healthy and stage appropriate applications of values by pointing out the unintended consequences (the pathology) of a careless or sloppy approach.

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As the man said, it ain't easy being teal.

Posted November 8th, 2008 by Helen Davis

So, it seems to me now that it is in fact irrelevant and/or inappropriate to pull one word out of teal to sum up the best to come out of that stage, as I have with green and orange. Once you jump to second tier, it's a whole different kettle of fish / ball game. I could of course name the best things to come out of purple, red and amber for my students, but I don't think they need that, and it seems simpler to concentrate on the best attributes in the top stages of first tier. If most of the people in the world could only act rationally and kindly most of the time, life would be much sweeter, wouldn't it.

Anyway, I think I've located myself on the spiral now. I seem far away enough to be able to objectively critique and appreciate the likes of orange and green, but can't do it for teal....

Except, except... I overheard another member of staff telling her students that there was no such thing as objective truth. If several people witnessed an incident they would all have their own 'truths' about what had happened. Later I commented to her that, while everybody would have had their own valid point of view (literally) and opinions about what happened, there would have been only one thing that actually happened. There would in fact be an objective truth as to what actually happened. My colleague knows nothing about Ken Wilber, but she does know about spiral dynamics, as she's attended a course on it, and we had been discussing it the previous day. When I mentioned my view that there could in fact be an objective truth she dismissed me as being at blue. Hmm I thought, how typical of a person at green..!

So I wonder if being at teal has something to do with 'facing and searching for THE truth'? Whatever it turns out to be. Jenny Wade says that the overarching problem that teal is dealing with (or the 'authentic' stage, as she calls it,) is realising that it's not a meaningless universe we exist in, but one that has meaning beyond what we can possibly grasp. It has truths that most of us can only see in moments of satori, and the rest of the time, we just have to bungle on as well as we can with the evidence we've got so far. " And you shall seek the truth, and the truth will set you free...but first it will make ytou bloody miserable"!

Helen

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The Truth at Teal

Posted November 8th, 2008 by Anita Boyd in response to As the man said, it ain't easy being teal.

Very interesting discussion; thank you all. Can't yet find words to contribute, but certainly am pondering. 

Anita Boyd

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To Anita

Posted November 17th, 2008 by Helen Davis in response to The Truth at Teal

Thank you for this.

Do you think you are at Teal? Why/ why not? I'd really l;ike to know what it means to  you.

Love,

Helen

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Feel of Teal

Posted November 18th, 2008 by Anita Boyd in response to To Anita

Hi Helen,

Yes, I'm guessing that I am at teal, at least in enough lines that I am noticing green, orange and amber scenarios around me, and also recognizing some in looking back over certain life experiences.  I notice that I don't necessarily have a piercing clarity about these things, which may be simply a case of learning/practice, or may reflect my tendency to know by feel as it were, before thinking.  So, what is the feel of teal?  Hmmm ..., realizing that in many situations, I'm no longer relying on anger energy to guide me, I'm not wrapped up in a certain position, I don't have to 'know' with utter certainty.  Recognizing patterns and their fit.  Not bugged by contradictions.  Wondering how I can contribute to a scenario given the levels I sense playing out there (this is hard). 

I used to suppose that I was simply 'getting older and wiser', but of course now I recognise the terrain much more specifically when we talk altitude.

The consensus that this is the level at which we begin to see and appreciate how the pieces fit together and contribute to the whole makes total sense to me.

Thanks for your inquiry.  ...

Anita

Anita Boyd

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From Green to Teal?

Posted November 8th, 2008 by Jerry Sherwood in response to As the man said, it ain't easy being teal.

Helen,

The movement from one stage to the next is usually triggered when a crisis arises that the current stage cannot address. From my understanding the crisis of meaning is what shakes one loose from Green. Postmodernism deconstruction, by declaring all viewpoints as equal, renders meaning meaningless. This is particularly true when it comes to something as all encompassing as the Ultimate meaning of life.

So, yes, the search for truth would be the "overarching problem" confronting green in transition to teal. However, imo, this would not be the case  for the individual that has gained stability in teal. It is the recognition of the evolution of concsiouness that provides meaning for Teal. It is responsibility to the process of conscsious evolution that colors Teal's perspective and motivates Teal to act.

Jerry

 

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Teal and truth

Posted November 9th, 2008 by sham609 in response to As the man said, it ain't easy being teal.

I actually like the idea that teal involves the quest for the Truth. But I wonder if it might be more accurate to say that the transition to teal is actually the quest for rooting out “Untruth”. The transition phase of Green to Teal involves being able to see the various values of first tier more clearly as a process. During this phase, one begins what Nietzsche referred to as the “transvaluation of all values”. Part of this process, driven by the relativistic pluralism of Green, is indeed confrontation with meaninglessness. Moving through this phase necessarily leads to a certain degree of nihilism (or as Jed McKenna calls it “spiritual autolysis”…I love that term). This transition from Green collectivism to Teal self-actualization grants one the freedom to explore the Universal without fear, and without despair. As Jerry stated, one begins to take seriously the task of being responsible for “consciousness” evolution. So indeed the task of assigning one adjective or descriptor to Teal (or any other stage) is an impossible task, though the exercise can still bear some fruit!

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Overflow

Posted November 11th, 2008 by Brent Simpson in response to Teal and truth

I have found it fascinating that in Cohen's talks (whatever you might think of him) he sometimes says the ground of being is a place of zero relationship to reality as it is (no charge or) Neutral. Whereas the typical person lives in a negative charge to reality... Something is missing and you need to do something to fix that it. Now, it's curious assuming he is roughly right on these notions. In spiral dynamics 2nd tier is also called being needs (one is overflowing). Would this suggest that a person in second tier is overflowing actually producing a positive charge. No longer are things in lack they are now in abundance in certain areas, areas like meaning, energy and other such things actually spill out of the being to some greater or lesser degree. I've found this a useful way among others to think of second tier. An element of what would be thought of as altruism is starting to develop as one is beginning to gain insight on the idea that we are co-creating the railway of consciouness for the future.
 

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So...

Posted November 17th, 2008 by Helen Davis

So. Teal is like the point at which you stop, look around and suddenly begin to understand how far you've come, and the way you've come, and what that means?  It's the place on the side of the mountain, which you've been toiling up, where you come out of the woods, and where you can get a perspective on the route below you. But how far above  you can you see, I wonder? Is it still lost in the clouds?

I do like what Brent says as well about the balance shifting to the positive. That resonates quite deeply.

And there is very little that I can say to my students about being at Teal. Because whatever I say will only, almost by definition, make sense to people at Teal, and they would have 'got it' already, simply by being at Teal.

Love (yes, I know how Green that is)

Helen