Quadrants & Quadrivia, a frequent confusion in IT

I hate this website and I can't wait until the new one gets here. I made the mistake of clicking "add to favorites" on your comment while I was in the middle of crafting a response, and it reloaded the whole fucking page and I lost my comment. I lost hours of work. Firefox used to save text in text-boxes if you just hit the back-button, but no more.

This happens to me from time to time.

[This entire thing is going to be TMI now because I am synthesizing what I'm learning. Please forgive my self-absorption. Dreadfully embarrassing. This too shall pass...]

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"Having said that, I'm not sure that this is what goes on in psychic phenomena (which is what I would call what you are describing). I think a pscyhic could be picking up say, feelings or images, in the UR quadrivium (not the UL) but at the level of subtle energy fields, and because it is in these fields it has the feeling, to the psychic, of a direct prehension in their own interior space."

I know I'm not psychic. What I'm experiencing is quite ordinary - only exaggerated - and can be (and was before I reloaded the page...) correlated with normal neural anatomy in the UR. Primitive brain structures pick up information from facial expression, tone of voice, body language and behavior/movement long before I am conscious of what I am perceiving. On the basis on that information, one single judgment is made pre-consciously: are they or are they not a threat to my sense of self? If so, then I become self-conscious and begin to compulsively give out non-threatening signals. This triggers the process which is the source of Stockholm Syndrome where the need to be seen as non-threatening drives the need to identify with the other and the more I identify with the other the more I need to be seen as non-threatening. If this starts early enuf and never stops, this will overdevelop into seeing into the interiors of others. If I see the signs of unavoidable oncoming danger, I usually (not always) dissociate and higher cognitive function shuts down. All of this happens before I am aware of what is going on or am able to even determine what has triggered the reaction, and except for the exaggerated ability to pick up the signals, it's all using the normal brain functions that everyone has. Everyone does this basic stuff all the time. This is one of the things I see other people doing all around me. And I see it because I do it and have become conscious of doing it.

Sometimes I become conscious of what just happened, in which case I begin to consciously watch myself (self-awareness and meta-cognition). Cognition is still severely impaired at this point, but I may be able to navigate the scene enuf to protect my sense of self. If I am stuck in a relationship or in a scene that I can't immediately get away from, I have to do this at all times. Once oncoming danger has been identified, I am not able to open to that person again emotionally. That is the situation which caused the PTSD. Sometimes I can't become conscious of what just happened and I become paralyzed (deer caught in the headlights). I am more apt to become conscious and find a way to stay safe if I am fully awake and alert, so I abuse caffeine to sustain that alertness and meta-cognition at all times. My own on-board hormonal and neuro-transmitter systems have been driven to exhaustion and are now severely impaired.

If the other person is not perceived as a threat, then the information proceeds to my conscious mind and I can think about them in a normal way. But I'm almost never able to stop the self-awareness or the meta-cognition anymore and I feel as if I am totally exposed to others in the same way I am exposed to myself. My thinking is often intensely scrutinizing at levels far beyond the normal boundaries of polite discourse. This can be disturbing to people. I have developed the habit of over-explaining and apologizing in advance if what I say is upsetting - as I'm sure you've noticed. I must regularly suggest to people on FB who are disturbed to just hide my feed or unfriend me rather than berate me. I am always surprised when someone misinterprets me after I have explained and explained myself over and over. All that is a source of intense and constant suffering for me and others. I'm still waiting for the friendship where both I and the other can be self-aware to this excruciating degree, and when misinterpretation arises, we can be self-aware thru the process together.

If I find someone that I completely trust, then that hyper-arousal can take a nap and I can just be. That has only happened a handful of times in my life and only for a handful of days in each case. The experience I have then is of being able to come back into my Body and be fully functional. I am amazed at how Present and intelligent and skillful I am capable of being when I'm in that state. It's so different from the dulled sense of being alive that I endure 99% of the time. I suspect that this is what people often experience when they go to Integral events.

I can also get information over the internet from the way someone writes. This too is pre-conscious. There is a whole field of study which analyzes speech patterns and what they mean which I have only recently discovered and have not had time to look into. I suspect it will only confirm what I intuitively know. I prefer to interact over the web because of the time delay and the buffering effect of not being bombarded by all the visual and auditory signals. That way I can wait until I can think clearly and respond more skillfully.

Nathaniel Branden's 3rd wife Devers was psychic. She could get information beyond whether or not someone is confused or a threat to her. Chapter 2, Part 3, "Worlds Beyond the Rational". She "could look at people and see things about them". But even tho the same benign words are used, Nathaniel discovered this ability of hers because she could perceive a smell. That is not something that she can pick from her own library of experiences and then watch for signs of familiar behavior about. That is a totally foreign object that she doesn't understand at all and has to ask the other person about. THAT is psychic! 

"Does she or does she not also exist in my Lower Quadrants?

Janine says: She exists in your lower Quadrants if and only if you chose to look at her through your lower quadrant lenses. In my example:  if you look at her, say, and observe her in relation to her congregation, you're using your LR "systems" lens."

So, what I hear you saying is: If I look at and observe the FFF while she's in the Group, I am looking thru my Lower Quadrants? And when I am looking at and observing her while she's alone, I am looking thru my Upper Quadrants? I don't really understand how her location causes my perspective to change from Upper to Lower. But maybe that's because:

"...you are now considering her as the subject, who therefore is now taking Quadrant perspectives on YOU, the object. You appear to her through her upper or lower Quadrants/perspectives, depending on whichever one she selects. Her Quadrants are now perceiving your Quadrivia.

Question 2: I'm taking this question to be: Where is "seeing into other people's interiors on the map"

Ok here we have to eliminate the lower Quadrants, and say that this kind of experience is not a lower quadrant and quadrivia resonance of interior We- spaces, but a direct prehension in your UL, zone 1, of their UL zone 1 that bypasses We space. "

The Subject's Quadrants are still perceiving the Object's Quadrivia. But when I'm perceiving another person, they become a Subject like me and our UL's are linked somehow. It doesn't seem to me that my UL Quadrant is linked to her UL Quadrivia, but to her UL Quadrant. This is my confusion. Is this because I am still fused to a large degree and not fully differentiated as a self? Is this because I am female and this is just what we do? Is this because I am overdeveloped in the Intra-personal or Self-Sense Line of Intelligence? What is the word "Psychic" doing on the "Self Sense" line of intelligence on that chart? Who's word is that and what do they mean by that? Is that a State/Stage confusion? I don't know either. What I do know is that this is the source of alot of pain and suffering and I don't know how to turn it off or down without taking a Valium.

"So that's where it is on the map, theoretically: you take a first person Interior perspective on her first person interior quadrivium.

Here, BTW, you are NOT performing a structural analysis (zone 2) of her interiors, nor are you performing cognitive science, zone 3, trying to see how her brain is representing information to itself. You are directly prehending her interiors with your interiors."

Well, I don't really understand what Structuralism is. But I do understand what Phenomenology is. I can clearly see emotions and impulses arising in both myself and others, even when (or especially when) they are suppressing them. I know when someone wants to do something even if they don't know it. If I say something, they deny it and call me names but it's right there, as plain as day. If I say nothing, I just sit and watch while the train comes closer and closer and then runs over me. I am surrounded by trains coming at me from all directions and I seem to be on the tracks of each and every one of them.

""I dunno. I think quadrants are an order of maginitude more difficult to comprehend than levels, lines, states or types and I'm not convinced that KW has it right at this point. Are we to assume that all 4 x 4 possible combinations of Quadrants on Quadrivia actually exist, or are there really fewer combinations in practice?"

My hunch is that it is actually even more simple, but we don't see it yet. For instance, you showed me how someone else isn't even in the lower Quads, but actually in the Upper. Then it seems to me as tho the Lower Quads are redundant. Aren't they just exponentially more complex combinations of the Upper Quadrants and Quadrivium? Aren't 3 Subjects basically doing the same thing as 2, only it's now complexified up to over 20 pattern variations instead of just 5? And Since all of that is arising in the Subject in the Absolute sense anyway... ?

I could be wrong. I could still be undifferentiated in a very deep place within myself. That is supposed to be one of the markers of this disorder: undefined without an other telling me what I am, always hoping for some good news...    But there isn't any. Just the all singing all dancing crap of the world.

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"The Left Hand Path, not merely the Right ... must take the lead."

~SES pg. 148