New Economy?

Comment not critique, I totally agree with you about human acceptance of the concept in 2010.

The Zeitgeist concept is an ideal, something futurists have seen is possible. Aspiring to a greater good for the planet is to be encouraged.

For example, I have seen the futurist predicted repository of human knowledge in it's infancy be pilloried, when in truth 'we' really we should use our higher level of consciousness and embrace it, nurture and contribute to it. I am naturally talking about Wikipedia, just listen to the mindset of the academics that embrace it, and those that don't.

Read the levels they are on, then apply this to the Zeitgeist concept.

We all must be honest with ourselves as Ken Wilber encourages us to be, and examine our true emotions on the issue. We can find flaws with anything if we examine them with a lower level mindset.

That's where I agree, the current level 'we' humans are on doesn't allow the issue any credence. But do we pass on the meme or not? How evolved are we as individuals?

Spiral up on this one, it's healthy.

Paul Richards

I will work thru as much of that linked content as I can. What I've been trying to find and haven't yet is a very clear and concise description of how the economy is going to WORK. I hear the idea. I hear the theorized results. I hear the reasons. But I don't need that stuff. I want to see the plan. Show me the plan. Do you know where that is? In 2 pages or less - preferably? It can't be that complicated, otherwise it can't work. 

I think you're right about Integral having a better grasp of the Left. Jacque Fresco doesn't seem to have a grasp of Evolutionary Development and so I'm wondering if and how his plan can work when parts of humanity actually WANT scarcity because they think it's fun to fuck with people. 

I'm hoping that some of his material can be used. But where is the good stuff? 

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I watched "The Zeitgeist Movement: Orientation Presentation" this morning. Very long but very good. Thank you for this, Brian. Its a good link. Sorry it's taking so long. 

I see a few things. 

#1  This is Green doing what it does well which is seeing the problem. It has exhaustively catalogued the problem here. I like how it goes even farther than any partisan backed assessment, either left or right, up til this point. This would make both Repubs and Libs cringe. E-e-e-e-e-excellent.

#2  It incorporates the best of Orange as well, using science and technology for what it actually does best. Learning and creating solutions. No-brainer. 

#3  It gets underneath the real root of the problem. The solution is extremely advanced and very radical. I love that. 

However.

I agree with Stef, unless we're shown otherwise, in wondering about the other vMeme's that aren't ready to give up the scarcity agenda? What if large populations will only feel fulfilled if they are pursuing power, prestige and property? Where do we stick them? Shall we re-appropriate Australia as a lower vMeme colony? [hopes there aren't any Ausies here reading this...  I'm j/k y'all.] I don't think the system will work if there are people who are trying to fuck it up. It's really dependent upon people's good intentions. That's a vulnerability in the presence of predatory agendas. You may not be able to buy and sell material goods, but people will still be available to buy and sell since technology will presumably not be making a person to meet your sexual needs. If we do want to go that route, then what's to stop us from ending up in an "A.I." scenario? 

The idea of machines making most of the decisions sounds great as long as we're talking about pragmatic decisions that have no moral charge. It is unlikely that this economy will make moral decisions obsolete. 

Crime and prisons will not be obsolete. Darrel McNeil still would have had to be stopped from raping children. I don't know how they're gonna "treat" those cases. Hopefully that will be possible soon. But it's not possible yet. 

This idea is so advanced that even the more progressive cultures are not ready to make the leap. I wonder if it can be scaled so that it can spread as people become ready. I don't see that yet, but I would like to see some thinking along those lines. 

And last, but not least, how is this impossible to co-opt by the Elite? Once we've quit our jobs and committed to pursuing our pleasures and what-nots, who's to stop some Elite from programing the technology to "fail" during a surgical procedure on someone who suspects that something is wrong? Treating criminals as if they are ill has been co-opted in the past and has been one of the sickest and most cunning methods of control ever. All the nightmare scenarios have been run in all of our popular science fiction for the last 100 years. What is in the way of any of those coming true here? What guarantees do we have? We will be incredibly vulnerable.

And, on the other hand...

The only way I can see this being possible and safe is if humans make a gigantic leap in evolution and increase their connectivity to the point where we are all working as a network - not just our machines. And this is one of the things I've been thinking about for the last several days. If molecules can't see cells, but only other molecules, then how can we determine that a dominant monad is impossible in groups of people instead of only a dominant mode of discourse? 

Seriously. Is that falsifiable? 

If Ken is at that extreme edge up there in development and he denies the Monad, is he saying something about people in general as they are now in groups? Or is he talking about himself if he were in a group of Peers? Has he ever been in a group of Peers? Is there such a thing?!!

What if there could be a Dominant Monad in a Group of People.  Is the work with Guruji making this a possibility now as what has been known previously as a sidhi? Or maybe never previously known, as he has hinted at? Is there a new wave of possibility now in our consciousness that gives us different capacities? Doesn't the record show that we have been moving towards a hyper connectivity over the last hundred years and more and that there could be some kind of Singularity event which might reveal a previously hidden Attractor? 

Imagine what would happen if everyone literally knew where everyone else was all the time with a sort of interior GPS system? And that's just location. What if we knew the moods of everyone? Or the physical integrity of one another's bodies? What if we knew what they were doing? Thinking? What if the secret of Transmission was discovered and we found out how to tune in and think together to solve problems and learn things? What could be done then that we haven't yet been able to do? What will be possible then that is impossible now?  

Stefania Luccetti mentioned it in one of her Drive-by posts this week about "Cloud Computing". Did y'all read that? She's asking good questions. There is a famous quote by Thomas Merton that goes:

"To be unknown by God is entirely too much privacy."

Think about that for a minute. And think about what we already know about God and about us and how that would radically change everything. What if our illness - the illness that makes people prey on other people - is too much privacy of just this sort? 

Sincerely,

"lazy f"

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I'm just finishing up the "Zeitgeist: Addendum" video. 2hrs.

This one is better. Not only is there an extended interview with John Perkins - one of my heroes - but there is a whole section saying exactly what I just said in my last post about connectivity. I guess I'm a little late to this party. Okay. And then it gives ... what can only be described as instructions at the end. 

The instructions are ... gripping. To say the least. 

Considering what all this stuff implies and what has been in the news since this video was made, I'd say they are "right on the money" on this one. There really is no doubt now.

This is the right description of the problem and is, most likely, the only solution. 

I feel weird saying that. Like I'm joining a cult or something. But they are not guessing about things which cannot be proven here at all. All of this is out in the open and obvious to anyone who will take the time to look. 

Brian, thank you for pushing us here. This is probably one of the most urgent things to deal with in the world. It's obvious to me now that the Gulf Oil Disaster is intentional and is being used to manipulate the economy and "save it" from being stretched too tight. Why else would they use "disbursants" to mix the water with the oil so that it would rain oil over half of 2 continents and cause more damage than a nuclear weapon? How many brain cells does it take to figure out that wasn't an idea born out of respect for the planet or any form of life? 

The enemy is U.S. 

And the horrible irony is that this emergent knowledge and insight could only have come out of the U.S. Only we were wealthy and safe enough to concentrate long enough to figure this out. Lets hope there is time to stop ourselves before we row this boat right over the edge of the world. 

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LOL That Free-range Serfdom video was GREAT!! I just put it on my Fb page. 

Some months back I took IL to task about the problem of Trolls on this (and the related iEvolve) site. Trolls were destroying the We-spaces. And after going on and on about it, they could only respond with the general complaint that, "Well, since it is impossible to prove that someone is a Troll - because it's not falsifiable - we can't/won't do anything about it. So please just don't feed them."

And sure enough, over the next month or so with effort on our parts -the actual Members of this Forum - the Troll activity dwindled. Ironically, the admins took decisive action on one particular individual only after the Community had shut her out. Clearly non-feeding is not a once and for all solution, we have to be constantly vigilant and educated about it - something that is not easy to do with new members coming in and some people not understanding what it all means and causing confusion. So I proposed an alternative way of determining Trollism that makes the accusation process totally unnecessary. 

This entails looking only at the Farm full of Troll food - arguments, name-calling, insults, broken trust and general ruined We-space - and follow it all the way back to the origin, or what I called, "The Farm House". Real distrust and name-calling, not like what you and I are exchanging here, does not happen in an Integral Community without some kind of effort being expended. It's a simple enough matter to figure out where it starts and who is sitting pretty inside that Ground Zero. Determining whether or not they are a Troll by looking for intentions or interior events that cannot be falsifiable becomes totally irrelevant. 

Perhaps this is a similar situation. 

Two things strike me as important here:

#1   Drop the Cosmology/Metaphysics about Galactic Power Structures and Genetic Engineering. Those things are not necessary to make it possible to see the truth. Just drop it. It's preventing rational people from availing us of their intelligence towards solving problems. Just point to the Farms. They are already there. We are already handing over all the milk and meat they want and we have been for thousands of years. There is no need to prove anything else. Just look for the Farm House. 

Don't balk at this. As a Christian, I have already ceased to use Christianese when discussing the Principalities and Powers when I'm in the company of rationalists and non-believers. I just point to Systems. It still gets the job done. 

#2   I understand now why there is no plan. They are set up to incorporate any plan we could possibly come up with into their plan and make us believe that we're breaking out. That's how it works. The only thing we can do to fuck them up is say, "No." and that is all. 

But then this will leave us vulnerable because without a plan we cannot organize and leverage anything. Agreements make action possible in a We-space. No plan - no agreements - no action - no survival - no real freedom. And they know this. So, they just sit patiently waiting for "the hopelessness of the truth" to sink in and for us to come crawling back. 

I think there is a way around this. But it's going to require some "laziness" on the parts of some individuals. 

I'm gonna stop here and see if we're on the same page so far.

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