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Integral Christian Mysticism
Posted February 17th, 2012 by john oneill
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Integral Christianity: Answering the Call to Evolve- Please Login to Add Comments
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Integral Christian Mysticism
Posted February 17th, 2012 by john oneillI agree with Paul's assessment that Ken's concept of the 3 Faces of God is a very important contribution to Integral Christianity. However, I see this as potentially a development of the traditional concept of the Trinity, which is central to Christian theology, rather than as superseding it. It could indeed add much to our understanding and experience of the Trinity if we began to explore what the 3 Faces of the Trinity might mean and look and feel like. This could be explored as the 3 Faces of each Person of the Trinity, Father/Mother, Son and Holy Spirit, as well as the 3 Faces of the Trinity as a whole. Paul has done some fine and important work in this regard in his discussion of the 3 Faces of Christ. I have ordered the "Oxford Handbook of the Trinity" as I would like to do some further research into this, to hopefully gain an increasing understanding of both traditional and contemporary understandings of the Trinity
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as above
Posted February 17th, 2012 by john oneill in response to Integral Christian MysticismPaul and Ken talk about the disastrous consequences for the history of Christianity once Jesus was kicked upstairs as " the only begotten Son of God, who now sits at the right hand of the Father" different in essence from the rest of humanity. While there is much truth to this, there are other threads within the complex Christian tradition eg that of the divinisation or theosis, to use the Greek Orthodox term, of humanity. Raimon Panikkar in "Christophany" p.16, provides several quotations of expressions from the church fathers of this eg
God's word became Man so that you might learn how to become God.
The Word of God became Man and the son of God the son of Man, so that Man, united to the word of God and receiving sonship, might become son of God.
He (Christ) became Man in order to divinise us.
He became Man so that " I too may be made God"
The incarnation makes God a Man through the divinisation of of Man, and Man a God through the humanisation of God
and
In each of us the son of God becomes Man and the son of Man becomes the son of God.
Quotations are from Clement of Alexandria, Irenaeus of Lyons, Athanasius, Gregory Nazianzen and Meister Eckhart respectively.
Panikkar discusses the divinisation of Man as consisting in the full manifestation of Christ, or Christophany, as humanity becomes in fullness what we potentially are - capax Dei, the capacity for God. Christophany refers also to this humanisation of God. It speaks of the making of the new creature in Christ (2 Corinthians 5.17), of the new Man ( Ephesians 4.24: Collosians 3.10), of the renewal of everything (Revelation 21.5). By the way, Panikkar uses this terminology of Man deliberately, while fully aware of feminist objections, as for him the fullness of Man is more than human fullness. It is humanity divinised.
Although this strand has largely been down-played or side-lined in Christian thought, it is still present. In the Offertory of the Mass the union of water and wine symbolises the participation of our humanity in the divinity of Christ. The Eucharist is a celebration of our communion with God in Christ, with humanity and with the cosmos.
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continuing
Posted February 17th, 2012 by john oneill in response to as aboveI loved the way that they concluded the conversation by agreeing that with the higher states and stages of Christianity, comes a greater capacity to love more inclusively, which is what it is all about.
Paul provides a very solid basis and substantial resources for other current and future Integral Christian philosophers, theologians and practitioners, to further evolve, develop and build on..
I enjoyed Paul's surprise and excitement at Ken's affirmation of his treatment subtle state experiences, such a speaking in tongues, which he calls prayer languages, and prophesying, which he likens to channelling Spirit.
They follow this up with an interesting discussion about how subtle state or "Spirit zone" experiences, as Paul calls them, were very common during the early days of the church eg as at Pentecost.
It was poignant and inspiring to hear Ken talk about his subtle state experiences with Buddhist meditation and visualisation practices and to hear Paul comment that these are very similar to his experiences with Jesus. Paul was clearly moved by this and it was a lovely moment of deeper connection between the two of them.
The Integral Christian framework provides me with a sense of spaciousness and freedom. It helps me to feel more at home within my "native" Catholicism and more deeply committed to it. Integral Christinaity as expressed in Paul's book and in Ken's "Integral Spirituality" helps me to realise more clearly that Christianity is an evolving religion with the capacity to carry people along the upward conveyor belt of human development, "all the way up", without limit. This is a very exciting realisation for me. It alos highlights that Integral Christianity has an important role in the develoment of a global integral consciousness and and culture. They can be in a dance which is ' mutually fecundating" ( to use a Panikkar phrase), assisting each other to evolve.
to be continued.
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continuing
Posted February 17th, 2012 by john oneill in response to continuingPaul clearly sees mysticism, the experience of God, as being at the heart and essence of Integral Christianity. It is so exciting, affirming and encouraging to me that both Ken and Paul emphasise the evolutionary importance of the development of an Integral Christian Mysticism.
I am very interested in trying to develop an understanding of some of the features of Integral Christian Mysticism, not just as state/stages , such as nature, deity, formless and non-dual mysticism but also as structure/stages. I am interested in how it can begin to develop into third tier, ie the indigo, violet, ultraviolet and clear-light stages, or the illuminative, intuitive, overmind and supermind stages, in aurobindho's terminlogy. I would love to hear Ken and Paul talk more about this.
In a recent Q and A, Ken described his own higher stage development which he summarised in this way:
Vision-logic - thinking wholes
Illuminative mind - seeing wholes
Intuitive mind - feeling wholes
Overmind - witnessing wholes
Supermind - being whole
This might provide some insight in regard to Integral Christian Mysticism, with experience of Christ correrspnding to each respective stage , ie thinking, seeing, feeling, witnessing, being Christ, in the whole of reality.
Ken gives other pointers as to how one may experience Christ at different altitudes of consciousness in "Integral Vision", pp 144-5:
" If a person is flying at turquoise, he might see Jesus as a manifestation of the same Christ-consciousness that eveybody, including you and me, can have complete access to, and thus Jesus is emblematic of a transformative consciousness that shows each person to be part of a vast system of dynamic, flowing, and mutually interpenetrating processes that includes all of us in its radiant sweep. At violet and ultraviolet, Christ -consciousness might be seen as emblematic of the transcendental, infinite, selfless Self, the divine consciousness that was in Jesus and is in you and me, a radically all-inclusive consciousness of Light, Love and Life that is resurrected from the stream of time upon the death of the loveless and self-contacting ego, revealing a destiny beyond death, beyond suffering beyond space and time and tears and terror, and hence to be found right here, right now, in the timeless moment in which all reality comes to be."
My question to Ken at the recent Integral Incubator was what third tier stages of Integral Christian Mysticismm might begin to look and feel like. In a comprehensive and gracious answer, he referred me among other things to Paul's book - excellent advice. I am starting to realise that this question is my koan, which may focus my attention, energies and passion for the rest of my life. At the ISE Kosmic Creativity event Ken mentioned that if a sincere question can be put, then the Kosmos will provide an answer. This gives me confidence.
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Great news for lazy people
Posted February 17th, 2012 by Bill Kilburg in response to continuingPowerfull post John. Got great value from the paragraph that started with " if a person is flying at turquise.
Been dealing with that in my own personal inquiry at a semantic level, using distinctions and the power of context.
When the I as a function of space and time pulls the plug on its self importance { self contracted ego } the possibilty of an I that is nowhere to be found because its everywhere found becomes available. I finds itself infront of space and time and absolute creativity absolute power comes on line.
Experiences as Happiness, Powerfullness, Love , Freedom, Completeness are thus brought forth into space and time from nothing . This I no longer buys into the illusion of samsara as source of the I experience yet it still can play the game with a lightness of Being, seeing and knowing the play of the dualistic mind.
For me its like the distinction between Newtonian physics and Quantum physics. Said in another context. All there is is machinery , I dont show up, I show up when I get all there is is machinery. Who is this I as a possibility coming from nothing, And in this context nothing is given, you dont have to do anything for it , just know it. Thats great news for lazy people like myself. lol
Thanks for the post .
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Great news for Lazy People
Posted February 18th, 2012 by john oneill in response to Great news for lazy peopleI like what you are saying Bill. Well said.
I particularly liked this:
This I no longer buys into the illusion of samsara as source of the I experience yet it still can play the game with a lightness of Being, seeing and knowing the play of the dualistic mind.
I'd put myself in the lazy category too. One of my favourite little books which came out years ago was "The Lazy Man's Guide to Enlightenment " by Thaddeus Golas. Hs key message was" love it all as much as you can from wherever you are". Thanks.
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continuing
Posted February 17th, 2012 by john oneill in response to continuingPaul has an important chapter on the shadow. I am becoming more aware that I have much shadow work to do. I was interested in Paul's comment that Confession only deals with what one is conscious of, not with what one is unconsciously projecting, which psychotherapy or a 3-2-1 shadow process can get at.
Paul identifies a critical weakness within integral philosophy and practice that mysticism is currently almost entirely an individual consciousness. However, he says that the most progressive integral mysticism will need to be communal and intersubjective as well as private, with elevated spiritual state expereinces becoming a normal part of corporate worship and small group gatherings.
I have learnt from Integral Post-Metaphysical Spirituality that the higher stage/structures of human consciousness are not just lying around, in an ontologically pre-determined way waiting to be discovered. Rather, they are potentials which we need to co-create and tetra-enact within integral communities.
Several members of Sydney Integral are interested in meeting together to look at what an Integral Christian community might look like. This holds promise.
With much love, peace and gratitude to you both, Ken and Paul
John O'Neill
Kurri Kurri
New South Wales
Australia.
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What is the Omnipresence that can get Nailed Down?
Posted February 17th, 2012 by Layman Pascal
The Christian Trinity, Hindu Trimurti & Integral-Linguistic Pronouns (I/We/it) arise simultaneously in me.
When we discover how Christ can be the ONLY universal Man-god without even slightly diminishing the validity of any rival, when we see how our slightest move towards Him, even in adoration, is also a move away from Him, when we accept that "getting nailed" is a Koan identical to the finite/infinite paradoxes in Zen -- then we begin to lay ourselves open to new clearings of Integral Christianity that are themselves only beginning...
Thanks, I've been...
Layman Pascal
(to receive other "Weekly Harangues" write to: pretendtomeditate@gmail.com)
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This is so right,
Posted February 17th, 2012 by Jane McGillivray in response to What is the Omnipresence that can get Nailed Down?And yet, I am totally blown away that you can articulate it so...... You have gone further into this mystery than I have and, so, thank you for holding a candle.
--
The fabric of my life is the cloth with which it is my task to polish the lens of my own perception.
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This is so right
Posted February 18th, 2012 by john oneill in response to This is so right,Thanks Jane.
"The fabric of my life is the cloth with which it is my task to polish the lens of my own perception."
Beautiful.
John
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Crucifixion Koan
Posted February 18th, 2012 by john oneill in response to What is the Omnipresence that can get Nailed Down?Thanks Layman. I like what you say although I dont quite 'get' how a move towards Christ is also a move away from Him, unless that you are saying that a move towards still implies separateness. I get that. I hadnt thought of the crucifixion as a koan before but I guess it is - a koan of love and forgiveness. Great painting. It looks like a Dali.
with love,
John
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transdimensional christ
Posted February 19th, 2012 by Layman Pascal in response to Crucifixion KoanIt IS a Dali. Good eye. He's one of my favorite Christian saints (sic) who did a lot of work in his painting and writings to combine his personal life with Catholic mysticism and modern physics. A rich mixtuer. And yes, the prior non-separateness of Christ is what I was alluding to.
With love as well,
Layman Pascal
(to receive other "Weekly Harangues" write to: pretendtomeditate@gmail.com)
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Embodied pain..
Posted February 19th, 2012 by Bjorn in response to transdimensional christ..ting. A koan and a mystery that doesn't defy reason. Enter into the cross and feel one mans burden as your own. And when I contemplate the possible realness of that sacrifice I shudder with the acute directness of blood, sweat and tears. Setting an example indeed, a precedence, to be understood. A gate opener in act, not merely pointing out.
http://naturalfreedom.weebly.com/index.html
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The Girl Who Engaged the Crucifix
Posted February 19th, 2012 by Layman Pascal in response to Embodied pain..
Hi Bjorn,
Your comments come across as fairly intact forms of self-expression which need little in the way of response. Just thought I'd let you know that I am reading and enjoying them.
Thanks, I've been...
Layman Pascal
(to receive other "Weekly Harangues" write to: pretendtomeditate@gmail.com)
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Thanks Layman..
Posted February 19th, 2012 by Bjorn in response to The Girl Who Engaged the Crucifixfor mentioning it. Yes I'm aware that it sometimes doesn't leave much to comment on, nor give much to pursue. I will see if I can let it be more open ended. Will try to blend into the ongoing conversation and flow of current threads, joining rather than imposing. Because I love what I hear from many of you. Music to my ears.
http://naturalfreedom.weebly.com/index.html
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Integral Christian Mysticism
Posted February 17th, 2012 by john oneill