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In Defense of Promiscuity Part II
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self-actualization vs. self-transcendence
Posted February 27th, 2011 by David Marshall
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Cohen: Because we’re not fundamentally identified with them. They are parts of the self, but they’re not the source of the self.
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...
Posted February 26th, 2011 by Tom ClearwaterSo you were 48 and she was 20, and your student nonetheless. Ok, I get it.
I prefer a woman my age or older. I prefer balanced power between us---parity with sprinklings of greater and lesser difference. I'm man enough to meet my woman on terms meaningful to her, in ways giving and receiving between peers.
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what are you really saying?
Posted February 27th, 2011 by Shashank Singh2I like Jun Po Kelly Roshi's take on sexuality, and find its pretty clearly stated. His view of teacher student relationships is quite vague. I'm left unsure what he really means: he seems to say:
What happens when things are not so clean? What happens if the teacher is married, or his student is? What if both are single, but the student is a formal one who has taken vows? How much responsibility lies with the teacher, and how much with the student? And what of the "other" parties, the collateral damage of sexuality in sanghas? The lied-to wives, the cheated-on husbands, the wider sangha that can feel used and abused by a teacher that is having trouble staying true to the very vows they expect their students to keep? "
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Wiltism
Posted February 25th, 2011 by Bill KilburgWilt Chamberlain was quoted as to have slept with nearly 20,000 women. The adult film industry is said to be a billion dollar industry. Most of us want our bodies to be buff and in shape. Sex been around for a long , long time .
Why do we bring so much baggage to this realm of our humanity ? Do we not agree there is really only oneSelf ?
I am in this inquiry as we all are. There does seem to be people like Wilt Chamberlain who incarnate in this world and have fun as a sexual being and to possible teach us all to lighten up about it and take resposibilty for our choices and drop the baggage.
Again I ask, are we not bringing into space and time the heavyness and pain concerning sex. Once we get who we are is the One bringing into space and time ,{ we are the bringer} that we can bring something new into the space rather than yesterdays beliefs. Are we not cause in the matter ? If not we are the effect, and that effect stuff is some tough stuff.
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Glad you both had fun - but a student???
Posted February 24th, 2011 by Stan KoehlerJun Po I'm glad that she didn't do the video and you both had a lot of fun - but she still isn't a student.
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Gold Plated...
Posted February 23rd, 2011 by vernpeacehi Po, all...i...see...hear...and...feel
...reading...your...words...is...sadness
...at...your...re....living...of...your...most
...treasured...delusion...like...many...old
...men...love...to...do...the...last...thro...of
...the...dice...of...the...ego...so...to...speak
...the...marvelous...paradox...is...it...is...a...
great...opportunity...to...trans...send...this...
final...fantasy...and...be...truly...free...from...
your...box...and...the...door...is...wide...open!
peace&love...vern
p.s...marvelousness...is...indeed...a...foot!
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I do
Posted February 23rd, 2011 by Jeremy Richardson--
नमस्ते
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Wow
Posted February 23rd, 2011 by Catherine GuidryThis is the most powerful writing I have read on this topic for a very long time. Thank you Jun Po Kelly Roshi for this courageous, honest and brilliant post. I look forward to more.
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Thanks for this!
Posted February 23rd, 2011 by Travis EneixAwesome read and well written. I laughed!
It's good to see someone taking a firm and deep Integral stance on this issue. Far too many easy/snap judgments out there, and the world already has enough of those.
I do think you got lucky, but not in the "lucky old man" sense. You both got lucky to find such perfectly in-tune partners in love for that period of time. That is a rare treat indeed!
Thank you for your wisdom and sharing.
--
~ Travis
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What about the gay?
Posted February 23rd, 2011 by Kameshvar"two-becoming-one in the possibility of the literal karmic creation of a child"?
Not necessarily so.
Everything you said applies no less to same sex eros. A little less heterosexism would go a long way towards a fuller endorsement of your integral, ethical, sexual embrace; not limited by Amber rules and ancient prohibitions.
As a polyamorous gay man, my perspective is that our culture has a long way to go to understand the beauty and the power of a deeply lived sexuality that is an expression of spirit without shadow that rests on a foundation of profound integrity. It's all good as long as it's bathed in consensual truth, light, and honesty.
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Thank You Jun Po Roshi
Posted February 23rd, 2011 by David Zeitler... for helping me deal with my own pain around a similar dynamic.
When she left me, I had to go back in time, and re-digest all those moments where I unconsciously heard something other than "impermanence." Ouch.
[primal scream]
deep bow,
David Z.
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Having Sex with Shadow versus Making love with Light!!
Posted February 23rd, 2011 by Mary Linda LandauerThank you Jun Po for being so honest with this much debated topic....Sex is not going away, thats for sure. Yet, as you express here so beautifully, we do need to take this divine act to a higher, more Integral level of consciousness, where it can liberate us all.
Sex began early in my life as a dark shadow then continued its ugly movement until at the age of 50 I took a vow of celibacy. Becoming celibate for me was about my own shadows around this act that always felt like rape from another. But the truth is it was my own shadow raping me; over and over. As a child my uncles touched me in inappropriate ways. A child sees this as feeling good and loved by grown ups....they don't understand the harm. I was fortunate in that penetration didn't happen but the truth is, in the most harmful way, I was penetratrated by them....my own psyche was pentitrated and became filled with shadows that sex and love was about my body and not my soul. I was a beautiful child that grew to be a beautiful adult...men always wanted me.....so my body/mind/personality became a focus to keep it perfect so that my shadows would always want to have sex with me.....and this is where confusion comes you see. I loved being touched and held, and I deeply wanted love and intimacy....a light deep within me, my beautiful soul, felt this was right but always the shadows appeared, instead, wanting to possess my body and mind....so I kept my soul safe....deep in the cave of my heart....never to allow anyone to really see me.....they could only see my beautiful body and parts of my mind.
Having sex with my shadow resulted in several failed marraiges with men that were there to teach me. They played their shadow parts well and I continued to be raped over and over. Never real love and intimacy only SEX with the SHADOW....These men were never the issue....never....it was the shadow within me. It was a long, long time before I could own this.
When I discovered Ken's writing in my thirties he threw me the anchor that helped save me......Of course, everytime I was in his presence or read his words my shadows just jumped onto him....I saw him as the liberator, the one who would finally make love to me....I bet many of you ladies out there, if you're honest will admit to this, whether with Ken or another teacher......we do this....and, of course, the teacher is put into a postition of being the shadow or the light of liberation.....but the truth is 'our shadows belong to us'.....and 'their shadows belong to them'......we come together with the ability to have an experience to wake up or not.....but blame is not the answer.....it just gets us all confused.....
Sex is a natural function and how we choose to use sex is determined how awake and conscious we are....the 12 years of being celibate gave me an opportunity to go within and confront all my shadows.....it was some of the hardest work ever to happen to me.....
I had an experience recently that was beautiful....I met a beautiful man, very integral and conscious. I chose to be with him for a week and I experienced the most beautiful, intimate love making. I discovered my shadows were gone and my soul celebrated with its ability to finally make love with the divine through this amazing and beautiful man. When he left there was simply gratitude for the experiece not needing any thing further.....we entered this space of divine love making with no expectations; just two adults consenting to let go into the divine love making that both our souls longed to experieince and express.....I am so grateful for this experience; it freed me from ever again having sex with shadow, knowing any expereiece I choose to have will come through my soul and will always be to make love to the divine through another.....
Again let me say thank you Jun Po Kelly and to Ken, who, as many of you already know, I hold as my great teacher and liberator......
Blessings and love,
Mary Linda
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Thank you
Posted February 22nd, 2011 by Shikha Sabharwalfor your courage.
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Yes And
Posted February 23rd, 2011 by StanleyThis was a well told story and I wish love to all beings. And teachers sexually exploiting students should not be swept under the rug. When these teachers fail "teachers need to admit when and where they fuck up and be willing to stay in the spotlight to demonstrate, to all who care to see, how their mistake has led to insight and transformation and shadow-becoming-light."
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Aaaaaaaaah... Sanity At Last
Posted February 22nd, 2011 by Jennifer GroveThank GOD for you!
I wanna play. I've wanted to play since I was 18 too. But no one knew how to play. It was all about being tricked into having sex. Making plays and being played. Never about playing. What a fucking waste. I attempted to pitch this idea to a young man a few years ago and he didn't get it at all. I've never found a man who can get this. Ever.
I'm glad she was open to Love going both ways. That bit of info has been withheld. It's plain to see now that this was Trans-personal, not Pre-personal. That makes all the difference.
Someone told me that I would be able to find people here who were open to this kind of play. But I'm not so sure now. It seems like Integral has attracted Buddhists who are just as moralistic and judgmental as Christians are supposed to be. And not only that, but also some who still think it's about making plays and being played. What the hell happened?
Please teach us. If Integral is not the place to find this, I don't know where else I would possibly look.
--
"The Left Hand Path, not merely the Right ... must take the lead."
~SES pg. 148








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Jun Po Fabio Roshi
Posted February 24th, 2011 by Lincoln Merchant