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Guruji
Another member of this site has asked if I could share a bit about my experience with Guruji. Well, I don't feel I've had a lot of time to sit with it and process it yet. That said, I am happy to share my initial thoughts and perceptions, and am willing to come back later and revisit them if that proves to be necessary.
So. Mahendra Kumar Trivedi. The Grumpy Guru. What are my thoughts? Did I feel anything? Is there really an energy transmission going on?
These are the questions I am going to respond to from as "William James" esque a point of view as possible.
I am going to attempt to report empirically on my individual phenomenological experiences as concerning Guruji.
And it certainly was an experience.
Guruji was rude, self obsessed and sometimes bordering on simply dishonest.
Quote: "God has gifted me with a thousand times more intelligence than the world's top researchers."
Quote (addressed to an apparently teen aged staff member): "Do you not have brain sense??!!" (Guruji would often berate, publicly chastize and make fun of his volunteers and few paid staff).
Most commonly used phrase: "Nonsense".
On the first evening, after being talked up by staff members for about 45 minutes, Guruji arrives and walks onto the stage wearing a sparkling white suite. He's white from head to toe, and underneath he's wearing a deep azul satin shirt. (Remind you of "Benny" One?) I remember little about the details around the things happened that night, but I believe he blessed us once before he blessed the wine. In fact I am quite sure of that. And during that blessing, I had what I can only describe as a vision. And it was not one of those ephemeral visions that you're not sure if you've really actually had once they're over. This was a full scale vision. Vibrant. Lucid. Immersive.
Wings vibrating with golden light grew suddenly out of my back. They filled the entire room. I was flying high above the world. I was strong. Illuminated.
I wondered whether a dominant monad that was incomprehensible to individual members of society of would possibly ever exist. I thought of Wittgenstein and Ryle and whether democracy was just a simple proto-property. I secretly questioned if the true net carbon reduction in converting to renewables is enough to influence any outcome. And what the number (expressed in terawatts or whatever) is that tells us how much global energy consumption is sustainable, and where we are relative to that on the planet at this moment.
And I must report that I had bodily experiences during each of the blessings that ranged from mild to wild. And woke up after the first night feeling more energized than I remember feeling in a long time.
So I can tell you that, on the subjective side, I was certainly aware of the "Trivedi Effect".
On the other hand, parts of it were difficult for me to swallow.
Guruji did not administer his anger in a particularly amicable way.
He claims to be directly in touch with the Divine and capable of receiving instructions from God, at least that is my understanding. Which is a rather remarkable thing to say about one’s self in this day and age.
On Friday night, after the first blessing, Guruji offered an “experiment” (in which we were served wine twice; once unblessed, once blessed) to prove the power of his Shaktipat. As you can probably imagine from my short description, it was riddled with design flaws, and wholly unscientific. Any transformed taste could as easily be a matter of the power of belief to influence our perceptions as something you’d see on the X-Files. Not to mention the second wine was decanted for a longer time period, and numerous other variables were not controlled for. It would be impossible to draw any meaningful correlations from the results of this test alone.
I also must admit that I bailed on the conference twice. Once for about an hour during which Guruji was delivering one of the most painful powerpoint presentations I’ve experienced in my ten years in business. I escaped the room (which everyone was afraid to leave because Guruji had just had a temper tantrum over people causing noise by leaving to go to the bathroom and such) and went out for a hot tub on the resort where the conference was being held. When I got back, quite a bit later, he was still giving the powerpoint.
I also bailed on the last couple hours of the conference. And the evening session for the public on Sunday night. I chose not to have a personal blessing. I was like the black sheep of the Guruji followers (which is sometimes how I feel in the integral world), and certainly did not always display an award winning attitude.
Which is, of course, a classic catch-twenty-two explanation that faith healers and gurus often provide when blessings do not take effect: It is your attitude that is causing you not to receive. It’s your fault, obviously, not your beloved guru’s. And Guruji’s organization proved not to be an exception. Deborah, the hostess, made it clear that we needed to have a good attitude in order to receive on the first night.
Having said all that, Guruji leaves me with many questions. He is a charismatic, interesting individual who clearly has the ability to dramatically affect large numbers of people. And I believe I felt something at the retreat that I did not fully understand. Part of me thinks it was real.
I guess what I am trying to say, is that I seem to have received something despite my attitude.
Time will only tell what the outcome of that something will be.
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Hi
Posted August 5th, 2010 by Jennifer GroveThis part is particularly interesting to me:
"I wondered whether a dominant monad that was incomprehensible to individual members of society of would possibly ever exist."
Not just because that is one of my main interests but because that is one of the things you would see if you were elevated like that. The things you were "wondering" suggest to me that you were able to see so much that you formed different questions about it all.
I wonder if you would have thought in the same directions if that first question had been answered differently. For instance, if you had found several other winged individuals looking back at you and you were all able to think as one unit, would you have asked different questions after that point? Would you have asked any questions at all? Would something entirely and radically new have been thought of if you had sought that Monad and found it.
--oOo--
I am saddened to hear about his non-enlightened bits. I believe that it is not easy to bear up and be cheerful under the weight of such a gift and to have beggars surrounding you day and night always wanting something from you or worshipping you. Nevertheless, it sounds like his 'tude went beyond simply being tired and overburdened. The gap between vertical and horizontal development seems particularly glaring here.
I have been disheartened by the presence of a 'tude in one of my favorite teachers lately. Something really bad happens when you're surrounded by sycophants and are bathed in their flatterings day in and day out. How I wish someone would find a way around the "good attitude" trap you mention and show him what he's doing. That trap is real and it prevents both guru and devotee from receiving very great gifts. That system just doesn't seem to be built that way tho. Very sad.
--
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Supernatural Faculties
Posted August 5th, 2010 by Greg MayersThe six supernatural faculties of the enlightened are the ability to enter the realm of form without being confused by form, to enter the realm of sound without being confused by sound, to enter the realm of scent without being confused by scent, to enter the realm of flavor without being confused by flavor, to enter the realm of feeling without being confused by feeling, to enter the realm of phenomena without being confused by phenomena. Zen Master Linji
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~
Posted August 5th, 2010 by David MarshallThanks for the report, Justin.
Justin: "I . . . certainly did not always display an award winning attitude."
What did you do? :)
Justin: "Which is, of course, a classic catch-twenty-two explanation that faith healers and gurus often provide when blessings do not take effect: It is your attitude that is causing you not to receive. It’s your fault, obviously, not your beloved guru’s. And Guruji’s organization proved not to be an exception. Deborah, the hostess, made it clear that we needed to have a good attitude in order to receive on the first night."
This is an interesting point. On one hand, I think there is something to what they say about a person's openness having something to do with their ability to receive a blessing (and Wilber also said this), but at the same time it is often used as a power play by such people.
I know that when I lived in Seattle my chi-gong teacher--Guan-Cheng Sun, a transmission master in his own right--used to talk about the ability to shut out energy you didn't want or need. It's a fairly common idea in chi gong: People close off their energy system intentionally to unwanted energy.
How people do that and to what degree or whether it's always a good thing is another story, but I think there is something to it, at least for some people.
So whether a person is closing themselves off intentionally or not, it seems to me it could be a factor in those blessings. I don't think it's all that different from a stubborn athlete closing himself off to coaching or a stubborn student closing himself off to new teachings, though of course this is something that's harder to see.
But again, the same sort of thing is often used as a power play, so we would want to be careful about it. I'm not sure how I would make the point without it turning into a power play if I were them, but since so many people are reluctant to believe in it I think it's an important point to make.
Then again, maybe if I were in their shoes I wouldn't say so, to avoid the power play, and would just leave people with whatever openness they had. Or I might try to "foreground the truth-power-knowledge complex and deal with it consciously," as Wilber put it in Integral Spirituality (p.293-4), talk about it openly, and still make the point that one's openness would be a factor.
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Buckskins or Patent Leather?
Posted August 6th, 2010 by Justin ManchesterJustin,
Thanks for the report, I was actually considering nominating you as an "Integral Entertainment" reporter, however such a responsiblity would require that you remain in attendance for the entirety of all assigned events - which includes the power point presentations!
While there are many perspectives on this type of phenomena and the individuals who display them I am presently choosing the humorous approach - something which I think is lacking in the continuing saga of Guruji.... So my first question concerns a more complete description of his attire; you stated that he wore white from "head to toe".... Please do not tell me he wore white patent leather shoes - I shall be severely traumatized by such an unsolicited attack on all that is tasteful!
In terms of "receptive attitudes" and given my penchant for "self-evident" truths, it seems obvious that one's attitude can at least diminish reception of both subtle and even gross aspects of experience - a simple face to face conversation can be significantly affected by the attitudes of the persons involved, let alone subtle transmissons....
In any case, based on your description, you actually had a subtle visionary experience and it also seems your mental processes were accelerated/stimulated, including an overall sense of increased energy - excellent.... Was it worth the price of admission?
Honestly, in the course of my own experience - having "found it and lost it" so many times, I came to the conclusion that for the most part, aside from acutal healing capacites, the subtle dimension essentially embodies a sophisticated form of "entertainment" and therefore represents another form of distraction from the usual conditon(s) of just being "me".... But this does not imply that there is anything negative or "wrong" with it's pursuit - its simply another capacity that we, as human beings, are capable of enjoying and suffering....
Take care,
JM








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5 out of 5 members found this useful.
Thanks Justin
Posted August 4th, 2010 by StanleyIt certainly sounds to me that something good is going on here.
"This was a full scale vision. Vibrant. Lucid. Immersive.
Wings vibrating with golden light grew suddenly out of my back. They filled the entire room. I was flying high above the world. I was strong. Illuminated."
What kind of meaning do you make of such an experience?
I would ask that you keep an eye on yourself to see if you notice any changes over time. Please keep us informed on this. Did he suggest any practices to help this grace unfold? Would you want the grace to further unfold?
Since I have not yet met Guruji I am not in a positon to make any comparisons but it sounds to me that there might be some similarities between what is going on around Guruji and what happened around Swami Muktananda in the 1960's - 1980"s. I also suspect that similar things when on around Jesus.
I do not view you as a black sheep. Thanks again for sharing. This is exactly the kind of sharing of direct experience that is helpful for our community.
Stan