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Cynicism
Bodies of light fill the ocean
Subtle reductionism fills the forum
Empty meaning fills the material world
Sordid thoughts rampage the noosphere.
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What
Posted February 2nd, 2012 by kbd2005 in response to [Comment Deleted]would the dialogue be about?
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I guess
Posted February 3rd, 2012 by kbd2005 in response to [Comment Deleted]poetry sort of gives a personal quality to impersonal love. It also provides an avenue of expression that is more transcendent than normal talking and gives quality to a voice that usually doesn't get to say much.
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Here's to dialogue, Schalkster
Posted February 2nd, 2012 by kbd2005Endless speaking fills the airwaves like tempestuous drums
Constantly bickering between fellow men
Like battling banjos, dueling drums
Filling the silent space with incomprehensible words
The silence was lost when the speaking started
And the reducing of regular brilliance
And standard luminosity
Started taking place
The essence of creativity forever lost in the abode of regret
Distancing with speaking
Creating dissonance
Crush. Crush. Crush the stillness.
Crush the meaning
Creating nothing where there was something
And creating something where there didn't need to be anything
The art of unintelligent discord
The violence of the green
Sitting in an invisible room surrounded by people I could never possibly want to get to know
Everyone creating something from nothing
Speaking in rhythm to each other's heartbeats
The endless swamp of needing to be heard
With the rain meeting their every word
Whatever happened to Spirit in this mess?
Whatever happened to meaning?
It's all a vast expanse of spacious listening
Where nothing takes place but the intelligence of a silent becoming.
Lots of love brother. Hope this helps.
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the cynical anti-poet
Posted February 2nd, 2012 by Layman PascalAlthough I take pleasure in the personal energies of communication passed through poems & especially I enjoy the so-called poetic dimensions of all forms human and natural, I must revert (perversely, of course) to a conclusion drawn earlier in life:
I was once a voracious reader and writer of poetry. Even, predictably, I had strong feelings about its nature and the appropriate methods of furthering its goals in the 21st century. I did what I thought every true poet did: whole-heartedly oppose the poetry of his day & seek new sparks in a combination of archaic and futuristic styles.
Yet, after a time, I came to ponder this whole affair. I asked myself which poets I really liked. There were a few. Which of their poems did I truly love? Again, a few. And was the entire poem in each case? No. It was actually a few lines here or there which set my soul on fire.
So if I really liked only a few lines in a few poems by a few poets -- what right did I have to say I liked poetry? By my own demonstration, did I not, in principle, dislike 99% of it? This is the condition rather of a man who despises poetry in general.
And thus, without losing my pleasure in poetry, I came to denounce it.
Thanks, I've been...
Layman Pascal
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haiku
Posted February 2nd, 2012 by Layman Pascal in response to the cynical anti-poet
the anti-poet
poised perversely int(w)o halves
has lost no pleasure
That said, I believe our age could use a resurgence of the good old, long-winded, bouncing, bounding & cavalier metaphysical poetics of our bold ancestors. If Wilber were a poet? Lengthy, energetic, intricately structured, expansive & extensive & trying to entangle the entire world of language in vast, nuanced cavalcades which double as anthems or battle-hymns or sacred praise.
I like poetry to gallop & bounce.
I like poetry that veers dangerously and seems destined to yank out its own plug.
I like any poetry that makes teachers of creative writing... deeply unhappy. Poetry herself has a sadistic streak and enjoys this moment immensely.
Thanks, I've been...
Layman Pascal
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the word made flesh
Posted February 2nd, 2012 by Layman Pascal in response to [Comment Deleted]
The bio-emotional & energetic "micro gestures" which power our words is a terrific area of investigation. It moves our understanding of words out beyond the game board of arbitrary social signification and into areas more akin to universal vibratory meaning.
It is this understanding which has the power to exceed a local, merely cultural understanding of language and rise toward a planetary usage of any language system. It is also one of the reasons why we must be vigilant in combating the tendency toward political correctness. When we accept that popular recoil from the assumed associations of a term should dictate usage then we simultaneously foreclose the higher human, artistic & poetic-existential reality of language. And this is no small crime.
Anyone who takes the time to repeat "nigger" and "negro" until they lose their social associations and become pure emotive noise will realize that between them lies a chasm much vaster than degrees of anticipate offense.
Are you familiar with the pure sound poetry of the Zurich Dadaists? It was featured in the Talking Heads song "I Zimbra". This zone of syntactical gibberish which unites the shaman, the poet & the toddler is a linguistic border territory wherein the aesthetic-performative qualities of the gestures involved in speech and thought are made available for our assimilation. One could readily argue that James Joyce attempted to present this in Finnegan's Wake as he undermined the English eye-language through the embodied cadences of the Irish ear.
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Layman Pascal
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the birth of tragedy from the spirit of music
Posted February 3rd, 2012 by Layman Pascal in response to [Comment Deleted]A word-unit of poetry has:
- direct signification of a word's multiple meanings
- signification by the implied 'category' in which the term is socially held
- subliminal signification through stimulation of similarly structured words
- subliminal pictorial dimension of the written word
- evocation of similarly "toned" words (as used productively in rap lyrics)
- evocation of the performative mode of the body implied by the utterance
- evocation of the trans-linguistic context produced by irregular juxtaposition of content and syntax
And this is all on the objective side. The fidelity of a poetic meme to the tacit/implicit feeling state of the poet (Gendlin's focusing method, Nietzsche's "birth of tragedy from the spirit of music") is apparently ambivalent to most of the features above.
Of course, thinking about Joyce, Dada & the modern age I immediately summon McLuhan to tell me about the shift from the literary-visual brain to the acoustic-tactile brain which is enhanced by use of electronic technologies. So the soul of poetry, as an essence of communication, could be quite relative to the dominant communication medium through which it is accessed. I often claim (!) that poetry died with the relinquishment of the typewriter. Once it is digitized it becomes simply "more content of some kind".
As for whether the vibrations of utterances are universal I would say Yes but in an increasingly rare form. As we move from our dialect to current language to shifting historical language to historical language group to proto-linguistic vocal & gestures moves... we must find fewer and more basic vibratory commonalities... but not none.
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Layman Pascal
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Yes...
Posted February 2nd, 2012 by Charles Bowling in response to [Comment Deleted]
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What about the opposite of a haiku?
Posted February 2nd, 2012 by Jane McGillivray in response to Yes...For instance, how do you like this oddly poetic sentence: "But when a dollar is a "dollar" is a bet that a hypothetical derivative of another bet about the real estate market, passed through several fluctuating currency, guaranteed only by a promise given by a group whose promise-giving ability is guaranteed by the very people they were promising themselves to all while the estimated value of promises themselves are moving relative to the value of companies that are based not on the wealth and capacity of the company but on mutually created hype about the status of the company... well, that's some serious green."--It is how sometimes it is possible to capture an idea in one sentence.... but it just has to swerve and plodd and include a double loup de loup in order to contain the whole. Congratulations Layman: this one sentence has aspects of some kind of future and wild poetry-thang... I am sure.....like why not have a poem made out of word tangles, meta-tangles as well...
The fabric of my life is the cloth with which it is my task to polish the lens of my own perception.
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form...
Posted February 3rd, 2012 by Annie in response to What about the opposite of a haiku?implies intent. I have no idea what you just said, but I thought that the beauty of a haiku is that each line can stand on its own and direct an emphasis.
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the edge of language
Posted February 4th, 2012 by Layman Pascal in response to What about the opposite of a haiku?Hi Jane,
I have always been in love with anti-haiku. That's why I read Lovecraft.
From AT THE MOUNTAINS OF MADNESS (1931):
The effect was that of a Cyclopean city of no architecture known to man or to human imagination, with vast aggregations of night-black masonry embodying monstrous perversions of geometrical laws and attaining the most grotesque extremes of sinister bizarrerie. There were truncated cones, sometimes terraced or fluted, surmounted by tall cylindrical shafts here and there bulbously enlarged and often capped with tiers of thinnish scalloped discs; and strange, beetling, table-like constructions suggesting piles of multitudinous rectangular slabs or circular plates or five-pointed stars with each one overlapping the one beneath [...] All these febrile structures seemed knit together by tubular bridges crossing from one to the other at various dizzy heights, and the implied scale of the whole thing was terrifying and oppressive in its sheer giganticism. The general type of mirage was not unlike some of the wilder forms observed and drawn by Scoresby in 1820; but at this time and place, with those dark, unknown mountain peaks soaring stupendously ahead, that anomalous elder-world discovery in our minds, and the pall of probable disaster enveloping the greater part of our expedition, we all seemed to find in it a taint of latent malignity and infinitely evil portent.
Both the Oriental severity and stand-alone quality of haiku minimalism and the Occidental hyperlinguistic exuberance (Lovecraft, James Joyce, Gurdjieff, Adi Da, William Burroughs, Hegel & Whitehead, etc.) are, I think, evidence of a higher impulse to achieve artifacts of post-linguistic consciousness by "forcing" words to reveal the edges and underlying energies employed by language.
What do you think?
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Layman Pascal
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cows
Posted February 5th, 2012 by Jane McGillivray in response to the edge of language-Well, that is a delightful experience, entering into the landscape of that small passage! These words we play with have added such a dimensionality to what is possible in the we-space... I often say that to my boys... "Do not underestimate these words! Like really, we are such a bunch of dolts.... we want "telepathy", we want to communicate without having to use words, we are very impressed when we think a psychic can do this! Hmmmphh..... We have forgot to notice what a charming complexity we are, as humans, who actually have develped 'telepathy' not without words but WITH words, ie) I am so blown away: through these brains and abilities of moving our mouths and breathing this way,or that way and these ears, that can pick up fluxuations in air-pressure! we can capture each others words.... we parse them for meaning, we cry and laugh, we think about some distant shore, and we share this extraordinary imaginal field...... and we can do projects in this field using really molecules..... it is extraordinary...being a human being.
Like really, in contrast, imagine being a cow hanging out with your other cows in the field, Mooo, twitch, mud chew, blink. I am not sure the copulation would be much more than added bother either..... Perhaps, being a mother cow suckling or a calf drinking sweet milk, that would be pleasurable at least so some extent. Otherwise, I dunno.... Here is a story though: I tried to help a mother cow once with a stuck calf. I was twenty five weeks pregnant with my first son, and I got called to the farm because there was no vet in Labrador, and they though I might be able to help. Anyway, we tied a bit of binder twine around the forelegs that were coming out of the cervix high in the vagina. It was interesting, putting my arm inside a cow like that, right up to my armpit. This cow was only a year old, and she did not seem to have any reaction to me, or notice even! She had been labouring for over a day and I could feel her distress. While I was trying to get the calf to flex its neck, she had a great labour pain, that tightened all around my arm..... It was a strange moment, being a human woman with a baby inside me, connected with a cow woman, and this calf, in the mal-positiong. She ended up with a caesarian section.... and 14 weeks later so did I , for breech presentation... Her baby calf did not live through the ordeal, but mine did....and I can make anti-haikus with these stories....
The fabric of my life is the cloth with which it is my task to polish the lens of my own perception.
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breech presentation
Posted February 6th, 2012 by Layman Pascal in response to cowsWords are the placebos of human telepathy.
Duped by soundbites we agree to be inside each other.
Sound is more mysterious than light -- it lacks even a "particle" of its own.
According to my story, I prefer to imagine you as a swine in order to establish more empathy.
Yet my Viking ancestors imagined a Cosmic Cow as the First Being... idly licking the Formless Giant Ymir out from the salted ice which fills the universal gap between the elemental powers of Ice & Fire.
My father, having delivered many animal babies (mostly cows), took the risk of delivering me at home. Years later I "recovered" a memory of this. As delightful and dubious as "past life" memories. Both pushing for a better understanding of the nature of histories.
Ah, I recall the rather predictable (for a human) astonishment at seeing calves become active animals in such a short period of time following birth. Such soft & slow things we are. And to go farther than the human average... how much softer & slower! One is strike by a deep sympathy for the sheer length of time and many dangers, high rates of failure, for the long developmental sequence of the human being of tomorrow.
Thanks, I've been...
Layman Pascal
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the placebos of empathy
Posted February 6th, 2012 by Jane McGillivray in response to breech presentationOh, yes, YES.... they are placebos, and then they are so much more. The immediacy of the natural world is intoxicating to me, but to be able to share these memory and stories, and to explore the possibilities of the future, all of this is based on words too, and so much more.
Here is a swine anthem:
|
| ||||||
|
--
The fabric of my life is the cloth with which it is my task to polish the lens of my own perception.
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by way of added context…
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Several Haiku-ish poems
Posted February 3rd, 2012 by Johanna M in response to [Comment Deleted]1.
to hear a leaf speak
now that it is dark, bending
into porous auricles (the air's ear)
2.
a flock of pigeons
going nowhere for winter
spirals in the rose dust evening
3.
when the floor of a thought-
furnace falls through, fire descends
into the soles of your feet
4.
being, in so many
places at once; the ripple
inside of an eye
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apologies...again
Posted February 3rd, 2012 by kbd2005I need to take this stuff to a therapist. Sorry to waste your time.
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Hi
Posted February 3rd, 2012 by tanya charlie in response to apologies...againWhy do you say that? And, why are you sorry?
I think your words are beautiful
T
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Can You Be Aware
Posted February 3rd, 2012 by tanya charlie in response to HiOf the part of you that thinks your poetry is beautiful?
Or even,
Can you be aware of the opposite perspective of this poem?
You won't see it. But there is one there. Just look.
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I can't see it yet
Posted February 4th, 2012 by kbd2005 in response to Can You Be AwareI don't see the other perspective.
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Why?
Posted February 4th, 2012 by tanya charlie in response to I can't see it yetIf you cannot see another perspective, then why are you posting on here?
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Try This
Posted February 4th, 2012 by tanya charlie in response to Why?Because you need to summon it.
You managed to raise your negative perspective quite well on your own.
Assuming that you know that this is just your perspective? You need to understand that much first!
OK. Try this.
Pick a situation in your life that you percieve as negative. Anything. We all have one. Then, wallow in your own self-inflicted negativity while repeating the words 'NO! I refuse to see this situation positively, I WANT to see this way, and I have NO INTENTION to see this (....X....) any other way"
Don't try to see. Just do it.
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Dear tanya
Posted February 5th, 2012 by kbd2005 in response to Try ThisDeep bow to you. Thank you for bringing up the opposite in my reflection. It is a hard road to travel, the one of "inquiry" as Byron Katie puts it. It requires a kind heart and a gentleness towards one's self. I think you bring up Katie's points here very eloquently.
Basically she says to substitute positivity where there is negativity (to put it loosely) such as in situations like these. She asks us to find the quality of the heart, perhaps of the poem and the inquiry?, and then manifest the opposite. It acts as a way to calibrate the soul and to find the opposites, which indeed lead us to the Witness which is beyond opposites. I thank you deeply for pointing this out to me.
I used to hide myself from my mother because she would constantly tell me how wonderful I was even though underneath I could tell she didn't like what I was saying. It was the worst kind of invalidation possible and has kept me from exploring my creativity to its fullest. Thank God for journals right!? And God. She's pretty great too.
I was doing what you said just last night after I read this. I took the notes from No Boundary about living "in the resistance". To "increase the tension" of a particular negative thought. So I started with just a "no" which moved into "I won't". I did it over and over again, silently, while increasing the tension in my lower pelvis (where most of it is stored). It really REALLY hurt but then it felt better. I was pinching myself (and still am) like Ken says but once I realize where I'm pinching myself I can start to actively STOP pinching myself.
So thank you for leading me to that, tanya. It was very kind of you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wallowing misery meets the bird in her tree
Scoffing silently at passerbies
Meeting her eyes, she breathes resfully.
The leaves fall from her tender branch
Across trodden paths of mysterious walkers
All hidden from her view as they walk so mindfully
To their places.
And in their echoing footsteps she hears
The crestfallen whispers of her son
Lost in the trail downtown
Wondering if he'll ever shine
Separate from his frown
Into the grasses from the meadows
In which he was born.
Deep bow and gratitude to everyone here.
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Haha, you know what's funny?
Posted February 6th, 2012 by kbd2005 in response to [Comment Deleted]I probably would find a way not to accept the compliment unless you hadn't put it so abruptly.
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I love the stories
Posted February 6th, 2012 by Jane McGillivray in response to Dear tanya-this poem...... how absolutely beautiful.
thank you... -
The fabric of my life is the cloth with which it is my task to polish the lens of my own perception.
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Or this..
Posted February 4th, 2012 by Jane McGillivray in response to Try This--Get over yourself kdb!
This is one of the most beautiful threads I've ever read.... I am dancing here! Man--if this is how the riff plays out on Cynicism, imagine what will do emerge with other word energy-patterns!.....
The poets of the world really do weave the first stitches in this fabric of transformation....
It is so fun to be writing here with all of you. Thanks!
Jane
The fabric of my life is the cloth with which it is my task to polish the lens of my own perception.
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Your always at the beginning with the knower
Posted February 4th, 2012 by Bill Kilburg in response to Try ThisI like that tanya
Or simply recontextualize it within context of contribution. Hold your negative and positive within a context of Self ownership.. Most of us hold their knowing within a system of agreement, but you can know the samething but now coming from the Self as Self as source of all knowing. and you my friend are the Self. Simply stand for that .
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Yes.
Posted February 5th, 2012 by tanya charlie in response to Your always at the beginning with the knowerSeeing ones-self as deficient is a false representation of ones-self. We must learn to see the postivie and negative in us as complimentary.
Thank You Bill for your insight.
Tanya
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