I am feeling increasingly estranged from Integral "theory"

Normal 0 false false false EN-US X-NONE X-NONE MicrosoftInternetExplorer4

Hi Keith,

Was your use of the word supernatural intentional, as being descriptive of psychic phenomena? The term paranormal is sometimes used by those familiar with psychism; none of whom known to me uses the word supernatural, as it tends to imply something pre-rationally magical.

As stated elsewhere psychic phenomenon and  i sort of bumped into each other. It was back in the day when i was primarily centered in a rationalist mode that had no way of accounting for such things. Eventually my consciousness reached a point of critical mass as a result of repeatedly witnessing these phenomena firsthand. For me this was enough evidence that my worldview needed to be expanded.

It's a long time ago now, but when my youngest son was a preschooler i often took him to the store with me on shopping trips. It was a sort of place where the foyer was stocked with gumball machines another such items intended to separate youngsters from their coins. It was my habit to indulge the tot with a penny or so, in part from my affection for him, his company, and good behavior. Then one day he said, "May I have a penny. I want a red gum ball?" The rationalist parent part of me wondered, "Do I have to explain to a preschooler the laws of probability?" It seemed like overkill to me, as being akin to a little kid asking what makes a car go? When the age appropriate answer is the engine, and not an explanation of internal combustion. So i gave him the penny and he came back with the correct color gumball. He could do this seemingly at will; and as he got a little older and graduated to nickels, dimes, and  quarters, he was able to collect completes sets of the Three Stooges rings and other such stuff.

But as i became more acquainted with this phenomenon, and broadened my studies into other areas i eventually formed the notion that he was predisposed to have psychic abilities. As it turned out i have a similar predisposition although mine was more latent than his.

Later on his mother, my then wife, and i often had psychic communication. One such incident went something like this. She, i, and another couple were returning from a picnic outing. She was driving and as usual chatting away. While i was in the backseat pretty much in witness mode. As it happened the route back home was very clear in my mind, and not so much in hers. So we entered into a psychic wordless communion, where like a modern GPS unit i sent her psychic messages on where and when to turn. Then i noticed that the gas gauge was getting dangerously close to empty. So when we approached a gas station for which my pocket contained a credit card, i directed her there. She responded to these suggestions faultlessly. And soon we were stopped at a gas pump. Mind you this was back in the day before self-serve, and a gas station attendant appeared at the window asking, "May I help you?" While i was in psychic mode i sent him an accordingly similar style message. "Fill it up, regular." Much to my chagrin, he repeated his verbal question. And i finally got it through my thick head that he needed verbal communication. So i dropped out of psychic mode and spoke, this time audibly, "Fill it up, regular."

Now as explained elsewhere i don't necessarily think that psychic phenomena like this are a sign of spiritual development; but are more aptly assigned to (horizontal) translation rather than (vertical) transformation.

Warmly,

Charles

41N54'51' 88W18'31"

Hello, Keith. I don't have any perspectives on the theme of your inquiries at the moment - and I want to say that I appreciate your questioning and points of view.  

Keith --

I too have trouble with some of the directions that our content goes.  I'm deeply ambivalent about some of the more New Age sounding material that we work with. On the one hand, I don't personally find a lot of credence in some of it because so much of what passes as data validity falls prey to one of many well-known statistical fallacies.  Humans are absolutely atrocious at rigorously inferring meaning from data. (A la climate change, on both sides...)

On the other hand, I feel a responsibility for allowing our audience to judge for themselves what are in most cases highly-credible guests and researchers that we feature, and this instinct is only the greater when the material causes me a second thought.  I have a built-in anti-censor as long as the guest's worldview is not itself prone to magical delusion.  (Not always an easy judgment, mind you.)

I can't speak for Ken but I know him to be extremely rigorous in his view of data and empirical methodology.  I suppose that one of the job hazards of our endeavor, which includes integral media that strives to take a post-metaphysical and methodologically-pluralistic view of phenomena, is that by examining as object some of the topics that have been badly and magically mythologized by regressive New Age tendencies is that we will get hit by some shrapnel.

What I can promise you is that we are not engaging in New Age regression ourselves.  We have a huge filter around the problems that arise from unsupportable claims and from the over-focus on the subjective quadrant.  This is in part why we actively try to present growth media and insights from every quadrant, from economics and climate change to personal practice, relationships and meditation and more.  We try to cover the full range of human experience.

What I will ask is that while you rightfully and fully engage your analytical process on any media we produce that deals with objective claims, that you also consider your own first-person account of how that is coloring your experience.  I think the trick here, as someone once noted, is to be just open-minded enough such that our brains don't fall out.

Thanks for the great feedback.

Warmly,

Robb Smith

 As a minister in a Unity church I am trying to bring critical thinking to an organization that is increasingly fascinated with spirit channels, reiki and other new age practices. I was in the middle of reading Carl Sagan's brilliant book The Demon Haunted World, Science as a Candle in the Dark when I saw the weekly update on the power of premonitions. I must say I was a bit dismayed. I am familiar with Dr. Dossey's work. Despite empirical support for some of his claims about prayer etc, I have seen nothing to show that the results can be reliably reproduced on a macro level. I am all in favor of robust debate and so far, the manifest weight of the evidence does not support psychic phenomena as a consistent and reliable means of obtaining knowledge. I guess that I will just remain skeptical but open minded.

Keith --

I too have trouble with some of the directions that our content goes.  I'm deeply ambivalent about some of the more New Age sounding material that we work with. On the one hand, I don't personally find a lot of credence in some of it because so much of what passes as data validity falls prey to one of many well-known statistical fallacies.  Humans are absolutely atrocious at rigorously inferring meaning from data. (A la climate change, on both sides...)

On the other hand, I feel a responsibility for allowing our audience to judge for themselves what are in most cases highly-credible guests and researchers that we feature, and this instinct is only the greater when the material causes me a second thought.  I have a built-in anti-censor as long as the guest's worldview is not itself prone to magical delusion.  (Not always an easy judgment, mind you.)

I can't speak for Ken but I know him to be extremely rigorous in his view of data and empirical methodology.  I suppose that one of the job hazards of our endeavor, which includes integral media that strives to take a post-metaphysical and methodologically-pluralistic view of phenomena, is that by examining as object some of the topics that have been badly and magically mythologized by regressive New Age tendencies is that we will get hit by some shrapnel.

What I can promise you is that we are not engaging in New Age regression ourselves.  We have a huge filter around the problems that arise from unsupportable claims and from the over-focus on the subjective quadrant.  This is in part why we actively try to present growth media and insights from every quadrant, from economics and climate change to personal practice, relationships and meditation and more.  We try to cover the full range of human experience.

What I will ask is that while you rightfully and fully engage your analytical process on any media we produce that deals with objective claims, that you also consider your own first-person account of how that is coloring your experience.  I think the trick here, as someone once noted, is to be just open-minded enough such that our brains don't fall out.

Thanks for the great feedback.

Warmly,

Robb Smith

I was glad to see Robb Smith has similar worry that many of us empiricists do. The reason why some of us empiricists are in the integral camp is because we ARE aware of the scientism aspect of Science, and the many important phenomena that mainstream science/academia simply dismiss away.

Like Keith, I felt estranged from Integral more and more. What in the world is going on? Why is there so much repetition of content? Why are so many concepts literalized? 

Question to Integral-Life, I-I, IntegralNaked staff--

Is this direction toward more "New-Age" content a reflection of demographics? I understand empiricist integralism will always likely to be a minority in a topic borders around spirituality. Is there any expressed intention to urge this less-skeptical demographic to critically examine post-metaphysics and cognitive biases? In other words, will the Integral staff acknowledge this demographic reality, turn it into a kind of social experiment, a Great Conveyer belt?

Here's a blog that I created(i fleshed out the messiness of the above posts): I am hoping to rally more "vocal" concerns from critical-thinking empiricists about the direction of I-I. As noted by Google Search pointed out by an article in Integral World: search interest for Ken Wilber has dropped precipitously. It's time for exploration of ideology, engagement with academic disciplines, and meta-integral studies. 

links:

my blog post: http://integrallife.com/member/jim-lee/blog/where-integral-post-metaphysics

Ken Wilber search history according to Google: http://www.integralworld.net/visser34.html

Edward's call for more concrete integral methodology: http://www.integralworld.net/edwards27.html

--

To see a world in a grain of sand....