Quaternity

Whew Brendan, I am enjoying this discussion. Your suggestion that Lucifer/Hell may be the Christian 4th opens up so much for investigation.

Recently reading Jung’s, “Memories, Dreams, Reflections” I discovered that the whole question of evil was one which formed a central part of Jung’s research and investigation of life and the psyche.

Forgive me, if I quote quite a lot in this reply, but I wish to also use it as an opportunity to jot down for my own record purposes,  points that Jung makes in the book on evil.

Jung saw Christianity as having failed to develop its myth over the centuries and states that “those who gave expression to the dark stirrings of growth in mythic ideas were refused a hearing; Joachim of Flora, Meister Eckhart, Jacob Boehme, and many others have remained obscurantists for the majority..................  a myth is dead if it no longer lives and grows.” (p.364)

Jung saw it as part of his life’s work to work on what he calls an impersonal archetype (and by this I understand him to be referring to what we might call an archetype in the collective) – “an archetype such as, for example, the development over the centuries of the divine triad and its confrontation with the feminine principle; or the still pending answer to the Gnostic question of the origin of evil, or, to put it another way, the incompleteness of the Christian God-image.” (p.350)

You have touched on two of these ideas in your response Brendan, and I guess we could go down another whole route if we have the inclination to do so in investigating the feminine principle.

A little bit more about the concept of evil:

“Jung’s concept of religion differed in many respects from traditional Christianity – above all in his answer to the problem of evil and his conception of a God who is not entirely good or kind.  From the viewpoint of dogmatic Christianity, Jung was distinctly an ‘outsider’.  For all his world-wide fame, this verdict was forcibly borne in upon him by the reactions to his writings.  This grieved him, and here and there in this book he expresses the disappointment of an investigator who felt that his religious ideas were not properly understood.  More than once he said grimly, ‘They would have burned me as a heretic in the Middle Ages!’   Only since his death have theologians in increasing numbers begun to say that Jung was indubitably an outstanding figure in the religious history of our century.” (pgs. 12 &13)

Jung was fully aware of the dangers of succumbing to evil by being constantly preoccupied by it.  “We must, therefore, no longer succumb to anything at all, not even to good.” (p.361).

This is a crucial point for me as it acknowledges the presence of not only good but also of evil in the world.  I am reminded of the first of the Four Noble Truths of Buddhism that acknowledges suffering in life. This statement also speaks to me of the second noble truth – the origin of suffering is attachment.

Your ending questions will give me much to think about but here are a few possible answers that come to me now.

Will the fourth ever really return?  In the Christian tradition this could depend on the development of its myth.  A reinclusion of the 4th for Christianity would be certainly be as you have suggested  a parallel to the way the non-dual is described in the East 

Did the fourth ever really leave?  If we think in terms of the shadow, no.

Would the return of the fourth mean the end of form?  The end of form would also mean the end of emptiness and I don’t believe that is possible. The form might be different (all things evolve) but it would still be form.

What is there to do in a Quaternity if this signifies wholeness or a solid as you suggested in your initial post? Wholeness for me is not outside of good or evil but contains both. Neither does wholeness imply the end of evil or of good for that matter but the non-attachment to both.  No easy task.  In which case I would imagine there would still be lots to do!

Would love to hear your further thoughts on these issues.

Best wishes

Linda