Looking for an Integral Society

Very recently I stumbled upon what I believe is the real difference between the pre-rational oneness and the post-rational oneness. I can't be sure, of course, but because it was an experience in the territory and I don't know how many Integral people have real lived 1st Person experience with pre-rational oneness that they can remember and integrate cognitively, I'm gonna go with that claim. 

The oneness that the Na'vi had was with the Voices of the Ancestors. It was hearing their Voices in your head so that you knew what was expected and what to do. They guided, guarded and consoled you. They were the experience of Presence even when the person wasn't there. It's a real experience regardless of whether it has any measurable phenomena. 

There's a part of our mind that is probably very primitive that maintains this spook connection with our clan so that the methods of survival that they have perfected stay with us beyond their lifetimes - with or without concepts. It's a Body intelligence. It's purpose is to override the individualistic impulse to do something different and thereby put the clan in danger. That is literally, it's purpose. 

Over at Single Eye Movement, John David Ebert has drawn a connection between ancient elaborate burial practices and lack of innovation and creativity in pre-historic and ancient peoples. If I hadn't had this territory experience, I wouldn't have thought much of what he's saying. But what his research has essentially done is found the farm and implicated a farmer - in my language of seeing Lower Right systems and implicating Lower Left entities. 

I think the reason Green vMeme intelligence doesn't know the difference is because we are raised in cultures that deny these Voices and so they fade. Our irreverent "burial practices" (the way we treat our elderly) are coinciding with absurd amounts of innovation and creativity. Yet many of us are now having Spiritual State experiences which use the same language.

It is not the same experience. 

I think Ebert's work is making it easier to see the distinction where our language is obscuring it. Part of the reason the language is so problematic is because the spiritual State experiences we're now having have been cultivated in cultures where Tribal and Ancestral reverence was still being practiced and have been interpreted thru those lenses. We're borrowing the ancient languages of people who didn't see the difference and we're borrowing their confusion right along with it. 

This is nobody's fault. Just make the distinction and move forward. Turn our issues with the Voices of the Ancestors into an Object and separate it out with the Spiritual State Experience. If we can't do this, then it's a good bet we're still embedded there and are having the experience of anti-bodies and we need to practice Magic and send the Voices away and denounce them. Trust me. It works. 

-o-

I'm using this guy as one of my Teachers right now. He's incredibly skilled at translation - not words, but meaning and value - and I've received meaning that no one else has been able to give to me even tho I've put alot of time in trying to understand. I like this video because it shows two things happening simultaneously. He is telling us about the advanced State experience (it begins in earnest over half way thru) but he is also demonstrating where he is embedded inside the primitive Stage structure. The Ancestral Voice of the Mother who beat him is producing anti-bodies towards Marriage and Wives. 

He just recently got into some trouble with the Law over there for apparently having sex even tho most people ass-u-me that he is celibate. He is not yet able to demonstrate his peace with marriage or to embody it because of the anti-bodies, even tho he clearly has had the deep experience of being in love and is not sexually repressed. Currently, his culture only allows two or three categories for men to have relationships with women: Mothers or Wives or Daughters. Even tho the spiritual tradition allows more, the culture is pulling away from the traditions and becoming very moralistic and repressive. The Voice of the Mother - who was Father's Wife - is too loud and is preventing him from experimenting and finding pleasure and joy there. He's really caught. Literally. They put him in jail. 

So, he's really good at teaching me the technology of consciousness, but he can't skillfully teach about relationships. The marriage jokes are bad karma and it's viral. Paul the Apostle had the same problem. We would all have been better off if Paul had delegated the teaching about marriage and relationships to someone who was married and enlightened. So, Nithy would definitely benefit from some 3-2-1 work there. But that's our tradition, not his. 

-o-

So, Almaas is the 4th Way guy. Good. In this video, he's describing that luminous world very explicitly, and it sounds exactly like what the planet in Avatar looked like. 

There is a mixing happening here. How do we demostrate this difference? What kind of world will we build that clearly marks the distinction? 

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Nass - there is some resonance in your post to some of my recent musings regarding "Pandora".... But first; my response to an "integral society".

The essence of "Integral" seems to be the capacity to inhabit multiple perspectives, therefore how many are there? It's fascinating to contemplate the creation of an integral society, so the next question (s) that arise seems to be; "What primary values will that society embody and how will all the perspectives inherent in "integral" be structured in that "society"..... Then - how will "integral People" actually create communities (including virtual) and construct mutually beneficial conditions that foster creative solutions to common human challenges....

I see the creation of small groups and therefore "tribes" of people who are sufficiently intelligent to utilize to the fullest, the present technologies to create and sustain actual small communities within all of the existing population centers, all over this globe - these would become the "exemplars" of an Integral Society - that's right... we would actually begin choosing who we want to "rub shoulders" with, and we would utilize a vast array of architecture and engineering that would be uniquely suited to the construction environment, and that would be constructed from all available "green" components. Just a few comments concerning integral in the LR....

And now - "Pandora"....

You see, I can't help myself here - I am a child of the 60's and LSD..... I saw the movie in 3D and it was comparable, at a certain level to a very low grade psychedelic experience and that is why some people actually reported a sort of "post-pandora" depression upon returning to the "real world"..... They had entered "another world" and their connection with the magical mother was at least temporarily restored,  through the power of imaginative visualization and HD digital technology....  A "holo-deck" experience.

Regardless, my own sense is that we have a great paradox and possibly even a contradiction of the integral dictum of "transcend and include" which is directly related to our connection with the wonder of the natural world - it seems our "transcendence" of nature has left us not with a remaining, ever present living connection, but one that can only be asserted from a "theoretical" developmental perspective... So it seems we are left with paltry dips into a living ocean, that we long to actually inhabit....

Live long and prosper.....

JM

Thank you for sharing:

"If all Integral followers are honest, they will agree that we just don’t have an example of a mystical, postrational, transpersonal environmental society to emulate".

It sounds like this is our job, to create this society. I wonder what it will look like? I hope it is based on love and respect including towards the Earth.