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What is the color of your music? - What do the memes listen to?

Posted July 3rd, 2010 by Samuel Tornqvist

Being a musician and composer I wonder what kind of music the different memes listen to. If I look back on my own life I can see many changes and attitudes. I believe the main difference between first and second tier is that 2nd tier does not identify as much with a specific music style and start to really enjoy all kinds of music.

There is genius in AC/CD! Took me a while to see though...

Feel free to add to this list. It is quite general and many styles overlap and some can be seen in several memes but I tried to go for the general listener. And of course, you might have a very different opinion. That is fine. This is of course just a list according to my tastes so the more opinions the better.

I realized I have a really hard time placing opera. For me it fits several memes. I also put some artists down but let's try to focus on styles unless someone really screams out a particular meme.

Beige: I need help with this one. Well, there is children’s rhymes and music for kids of course.

Purple: Chanting, Drum circles, ambient music.

Red: Heavy metal, Rap, War-chants, Punk, Opera, Lady Gaga (well maybe...)

Blue: Sacral music, Country and Western, Folk music, Baroque, Opera, Gospel, Blues (of course...)

Orange: most 20th century music, Techno, Madonna and other pop-stars, Disco/Funk, early jazz

Green: Same as purple plus Beatles, later Jazz, Joan Baez, World-music

Teal and Turquoise: All of it. But there is of course Stuart Davis. He is great, but we need more examples... How about John Cage, Art Lande, maybe Joni Mitchell and Pat Metheny?

What do you think?

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audience performance

Posted July 3rd, 2010 by Kerry Dugan

Samuel,

It’s been said that there’s no accounting for taste. The independence of structure(stage) and content has come up in this recent post by Robb. And that’s part of what I mean by “false culture” in my IL blog.

Reading Annie,

“I realize we have never had a conversation about the correlation between emotion/sensations and memes, I find it difficult to adjust the lens so that I can actually feel into the memes and the ways in which sensations and experience translate to spiral dynamics.”

I flashed on something that Katie and Zac wrote, in their LAS intro, On Operationalizing Aspects of Altitude, in the section on differentiating between lines.

“…Howard Gardner, whose "multiple intelligences" Wilber often claims are synonymous with lines.39 Gardner defines eight intelligences using eight rigorous criteria.40 He is attempting to figure out… our underlying information processing capacities that operate to create value in our lives and our cultures. …Gardner focuses solely on aspects of the intellect or cognition. For example, he notes that there is no moral, creative, or emotional intelligence; all of which are categorized as lines by Wilber. Instead, Gardner notes that many of his eight intelligences are called upon to make each moral, creative, or emotional decision or product, and that each intelligence can be mobilized in moral, creative, or emotional ways (or their opposite).”

Rather than assign altitude to content, I’d begin by asking what line perspectives are in play, or of interest, in a specific occasion. What skill or task am I concerned with? In the case of aesthetics, am I looking at production (active or passive) or appreciation (active or passive)? Audience also performs. Does a genre care? Maybe it can’t. That we can care may depend as much on where we stand as what we’re busy apprehending.

The same lyric or note of any song could be sung from, or heard from, any altitude. The functioning of our aesthetic line, in any moment, feels like more interface than property, more a co-operative resonance than a filter of style, and more determined by who and how we are than by the form of artifacts. Judging the complexity of forms is part of the picture. Linking ‘gravities to genres takes compound generalizations. And that very task, which has it’s popularity on integral concerned forums, may say more about we who’ve done it than about the musics we assess.

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For me this is about levels, not lines (Do we hear each other at integral?)

Posted July 4th, 2010 by Samuel Tornqvist in response to audience performance

Yes, I can see how one for example can be trained to "look" green but still actually being at orange. But in music, that is what we call a poor interpretation, probably a bad/lacking performance. This is particularly obvious with a composer with a higher level of awareness then the interpreter. It just does not sound any good no matter how trained the interpreter is. I don't believe that you can completely "fake" the levels. I can of course talk about higher leves that I have read in a book but it won't take long to see that I am not there with the rest of "my universe". In a way it does not "feel right".

Actually everybody learn music in the following way: First single notes, then a few more notes, then whole phrases, then whole parts, then the whole suit. The more experience, the more we see the bigger picture.

Of course you can apply any model you want. But in the answers here I see the slight multicultural tendency that "nothing should be pigeonholed". I smell it....

I think it is good that we are "integral" and we can learn more from each other and see new angles. But this inquiry feels lost in theory, not actually going for the inquiry. "How should I accurately ask the question?" Just ask. If it is a shitty inquiry, then just forget it and move on.

De-construct
Or we could cover up in theory we already know until it gets lost. It becomes de-constructing instead of inquiring and we stay flat. (I'm sure I am guilty of this myself all the time.)

Of course there is higher and lower art (and music), there is not question in my mind, even when all quadrants are included. But I know a crowd who would protest violently if they heard me say that. Just finding "the correct line" I think is less integral in fact. Things can be beautiful but not true nor good etc. So, no I stick with altitude, that is the angle I am looking at. Just certain lines I think gets a lot trickier and lines are included in altitude anyway.

I mean, we have names for the styles. For example, Baroque, classicism, renaisance, romanticism etc. These names point to differences and I think that shows altitude. It is not just called good or bad music according to once's individual taste and I don't talk about taste either.

Altitude can be seen easily in how music has developed and what it has been used for. If you look at musical structures, how to write it, intervals, chords, language, how to perform it, for whom, by whom etc there is altitude. So, it could be very complex, true, but I am too lazy and I just made it a little easier.

Actually, I realize I changed gears slightly when I was writing and I was not aware of this at first. Meaning, first I thought about having a (very) general feel for the meme and what kind of music they would go for, producing and enjoying. What music would support their way of seeing the world?

But at the end it is true that I suddenly talk about artists end then it is more about the level of just the artist which is more of just UL.

There does not seem to be a problem with defining art in general through the memes. I hear about green and integral art all the time for example. I just have noticed that music specifically is quite absent on the integral network and was interesting in seeing what music could apply to the memes.

If someone produce music at a certain level I think it mainly applies to that level, yes. The creator is quite clear, the level, but probably most appreciators of the art is from the same level, at least with the same intepretation as originally intended. Everybody do interprets the music yes, but who actually keeps listening to it? Who comes back for more?

It is true that for example green makes new interpretation of older material created by lower memes but that usually ends up with the pre/trans phallacy. So, in what altitude is music created and enjoyed? It is for all but lower memes don't create music for higher memes.

Maybe we don't want to analyse music in this way? Maybe it is pointless?
But it interests me because we seem quite happy to analyze any other art and litterature, so why not music?

Thanks for letting my brain cook on this one....

Samuel Törnqvist

www.unblogyourself.com

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Further

Posted July 6th, 2010 by Stanley

I would add Further for green.

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What is the color of your music? - What do the memes listen to?

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audience performance

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For me this is about levels, not lines (Do we hear each other at integral?)

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Further