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On Turning the Other Cheek

Posted February 24th, 2011 by Scott Marshall

1. Its like giving away ammunition to the "other side." This is a really good sign that a person is interested in NMOD because suddenly "being right" and "being on top" isn't as thrilling any longer. Greater depth and span of influence can happen in the we-space using the NMOD that fits for the level(s) of development in which you are interfacing with. Replacing your views with my views isn't as attractive now. OMOD is at best righteous. NMOD is at best trans-righteous.

The gifts and talents distributed in diverse ways amongst a population can have greater impact upon overall humanity upon reaching "2nd Tier" consciousness. Its exciting because these disparate elements are seen as a larger "whole" a larger "we" a greater "I."

This is transpersonal. Voices that are communing and retaining their individuality yet surrendering to unimaginable union.

surrender to unimaginable union (radical oneness) - interior

retain individual self sense (see self for what it truly is) - exterior

2. Yet we cannot use the escape velocity of NMOD to eliminate all usage of OMOD. The question comes up- How do I work with OMOD using NMOD? Here is my current understanding: OMOD cannot be transcended and excluded, it is of course transcended and INCLUDED!

3. Ability to see and use NMOD changes as consciousness begins to "see" and "hold" it.

all for now

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OMOD?

Posted February 24th, 2011 by stefano

It is said amongst scientists that a good scientist "bends over backwards to prove himself wrong."

I interpret that to mean that to be a scientist is to be committed to objective truth; a scientist would feel bad if he or she got famous teaching a theory that was wrong. They aren't doing it for the money or the fame, they are doing it for the love of truth. Likewise, a mathematician might become very depressed if he one day realised that his beautiful proof (which everyone had accepted) actually contained a critical flaw. It is like I imagine Wilber locked away for 4 years trying to develop a better theory, not just another theory with his already famous name on it. He could have, and many would have bought it. But he wanted to advance the theory for the love of philosophical truth.

So I'm wondering, there is a difference between, "I found the right answer" and "I am glad the right answer was found." The first is because I get to be on top. The second is that even if I happen to be on top with the best idea so far, I welcome people who come and say, bzzt, there is a flaw and this other one is better.

People already have a certain commitment to truth, to honesty, to sincerity. You could never build a working rocket to the moon if people were more interested in "being right," than "the right answer being found." I mean, some guy would play politics to dominate everyone else with his ideas and then they'd build the rocket and it would just fall apart.

So I'm quite unsure about what the NMOD is supposed to bring that doesn't already exist. I'm not saying it isn't doing anything unique... just that the many descriptions I read as people discuss it sound to me very familiar and not new. I'm like, "so what? people already do that."

But we are interested in developing to a higher level, which is taking existing commitments to truth and sincerity, and going further, but to do that, we need to be specific about what is the unique addition that the NMOD brings?

You're talking in part about surrender. But I'm seeing that people already surrender to truth and sincerity -- they surrender their egos and admit they are wrong, so that a better theory can be made and a better rocket can be built.

Of course, here online we don't have the rigours of a NASA engineering centre. We are just people exploring opinions. But even here people can surrender their egos when they realise that their opinion has flaws. Or rather, that willingness to be wrong is the shared value.

So what does the NMOD contribute that is new?

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new

Posted February 24th, 2011 by Scott Marshall in response to OMOD?

OMOD had its wonderful uses. It should be said that OMOD is part of NMOD, except with new emergent features. If were talking about "whats new" then it seems that evidence has yet to be brought to the table that is concrete enough.

I argue that "the person" is what is referred to as the contribution. This contribution is AQAL in nature and healthy modes of discourse start at red, healthy MOD at orange, healthy MOD at green. But as soon as you get into teal and turquoise the MOD has the potential to become NMOD. Healthy modes of discourse exist at all levels. That is nothing new. Modes of discourse are not just ideas or UL events.

I am willing to be wrong, but I will say that for myself and perhaps a few others NMOD is evidenced here on the IL blog and popping up in other forms on the net. Seems to be cyber induced.

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Posted February 26th, 2011 by stefano in response to new

Hi Scott,

If you have time, I'd appreciate some clarifications.

You said,

"I argue that "the person" is what is referred to as the contribution."

I don't know what you mean my that -- rather, I can think of half a dozen interpretations -- so what do you mean by that?

How? Can you explain the principle, and give an example?

PS.

Ok I searched the forums for "NMOD" and found this post:

http://integrallife.com/member/scott-marshall/blog/nmod

So to paraphrase into my own example (this is from something about 18 years ago):

girlfriend: why haven't you booked your time off yet?

me: uh, been very busy and chaotic at work

girlfriend: you know i have to book time too and i've booked it now why don't you do the same?

me: i will

girlfriend: you should have done it already, now i am stressed, because you're disorganised!

me: well i have stresses at work too!

girlfriend: and so do i, we all do, but we agreed and you haven't done your part for us

me: um... well.. your job is not as stress... well... i can't control what they demand of me... er... yeah... i tend to forget about us when i go to work... er... that doesn't sound good... um... i guess there will always be stresses...

girlfriend: look, i know your job can be harder sometimes, but does this mean that every time you have a big project, i should just forget about our holiday plans?

me: i'm sorry, you are right, i forget that i need to remember our agreements and not just be distracted by my own work -- i do want us to go on holiday! i really do. and i do get distracted... but i see it becomes a problem for us both.... so this is what i'm going to do... i'm going to fix this bad habit of mine... but the only way to get out of that is to really focus and really work on getting organised -- ok so this is what i'm going to do right now: i'm setting an alarm and i'm putting notes up on the computer, and i'm looking at the diary and aha, i know my boss is in on friday so i'm putting in my diary to ask him then for the time

girlfriend: ok, this week?

me: yes, this week, and because this disorganised mess is a habit of mine, i know it is likely to happen again, so next time we agree to a trip, i'll remember to put all this in the diary immediately, and you can support me by checking up on me a week later

girlfriend: um, i shouldn't be having to remember for you

me: yes, i know, but because we've identified this problem, this habit of mine, i'll just need some time to change the habit, and so just the first couple of times, if you could help remind me, that would be great -- and let's agree now that even if you don't remind me, and i forget, i won't blame you -- it is still my responsibility

girlfriend: ok, i feel like that is ok, and i also feel that you do care about our holidays, and that you do care about me

me: yes

Now comparing it to the NMOD example in the link, when I get to line 6:

me: well i have stresses at work too!

in the NMOD example, my girlfriend would at this point stop accusing me, and instead enquire into the stress and how the stress is feeling in my body, how i am experiencing it, and be really interested in a friendly way in what i am experiencing with my stress.

In other words, the conversation would sorta go off in a different direction.

This is interesting... I might do a blog post about this.

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ok

Posted February 24th, 2011 by stefano in response to new

Thanks that's useful for me to understand. OK so when you say we are adding "the person"... hmm...

Let me see... what do I relate that to.... well, at 2nd tier we become aware of the spiral, and value each altitude's contribution (that's how I understand 2nd tier to be described in part)...

So when you say "the person," do you mean that when I dialogue, I'm also talking about my own psychograph in conjunction with other topics.

For example, when I was an architecture student, I was conscious that different people had different styles, tastes, priorities and values when they designed stuff, and I could see that the design was just as much about them as a person as it was about the client's requirements.

Usually people would try to explain why the design was arrived at using good reasoning, but to me the design looked that way because of their own personal traits, ideals, etc. But you're not really supposed to talk about yourself, you're supposed to talk about the design (OMOD?)

So really, they could have talked about their own worldview, experiences, passions, etc. and how the design expressed all of that.

Is that what you mean by bringing the person into it?

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after the preliminaries…

Posted February 24th, 2011 by Charles Bowling in response to ok

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Hi Scott and Stefano,

There is something about NMOD that resonates with a deep place in me; let's just say that it's close to the core of my being; finding the precise words to talk about it takes a bit of doing.

Part of me hesitates to do so because there's a great vulnerability in so doing. And while it's true that personhood is involved in NMOD, it's a personhood where my subjectivity is on par with my objectivity; where a truer appreciation, a more equal valuation of my interior is on display in discourse.

That hesitation gets overridden by one of the central themes of my adult life; for want of a better phrase I'll just call it reclaiming the feminine.

It's painfully obvious to me that any truly integral movement must include both our interiors and exteriors, both our subjectivity and our objectivity. Denial, disabuse, or devaluing one at the expense of the other simply will not do.

And what's new about NMOD? Well I see it as a natural outgrowth, one that's concurrent with the movement from a mindset enmeshed in deficiency into a more generous place -the descriptive phrase that comes to mind is the plenitude of being.

Is there a certain surrender involved in this movement? Yes, it's a surrender characterized by a loosening of the bonds that encapsulate the contracted-self. It's a big one; KW has described it as a big blue pancake falling on one's head. Potentially it's the release of a final tension.

Now it happens that my body carries with it a continual tug-of-war; it's an emotional tension between me and the other; and for me NMOD appears as an invitation to its final resolution.

Warmly,

Charles

88W13'31" 41N54'51"

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Posted February 26th, 2011 by stefano in response to after the preliminaries…

Hi Charles, I find your post interesting, but I am still looking for clarification about what is the format of the NMOD.

The feminine, surrender, contractions, and blue pancakes, are all interesting notions in themselves which could be explored for weeks to understand what they mean.

At this point I'm just asking that someone please explain what the NMOD is. Each time I ask for a clarification on this people go off into a fog of abstract ideas.

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may the fog lift…

Posted February 26th, 2011 by Charles Bowling in response to -

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Hi Stefano,

It's not possible for me to eschew the use of abstractions here in language-dependent cyberspace, as obviously, language itself is made up of abstractions.

If you will, allow this story: I was at dinner with some very bright persons. And to test the waters with my dining companions I offered this truism: ‘Man's best invention is language’. This evoked some humor with one of the brightest in the company, who responded with, ‘Languages’ best invention is man.’ (Obviously this person was well-versed in postmodernism.)

So rather than ask you to think about a definition of NMOD, please be invited to contemplate what it might mean. The implication here is that while thought is necessary it is not sufficient to the task. In our unfolding manifestation prior to thought, we humans first evolved physicality, which was followed by emotionality, only after which thought as we know it appeared -of course these forms of manifestation all interact with each other; this includes what is usually known as the trans-rational. Put in simplest form instinct informs the rational from the past leaving intuition to inform the rational from that which is yet to be.

This means that the world of thought at its best is open-ended, and not constrained within itself. The alternative is to be lost in thought; alas this turns out to be a tragedy.

Perhaps it's worth adding that everyone who comes to NMOD does so on a unique path, it colors their understanding and possible descriptions of it. So what I have to say about a possible definition or description is subject to my own conditioning and predilections etc.

The phrase that comes to mind is common ground. It's a discourse based on a commonality of openness without agenda. By agenda I do not mean a list of things to be discussed, but a more personal agenda based on internal deficiencies both perceived and real. It's a space where gotchas and various other forms of zero-sum games are neither necessary nor welcome.

Or looked at more poetically, I'm reminded of these lines…

It's a land of dreams

With air-built castles piled,

Whence cold and doubting

Reasoners are exiled.

Warmly,

Charles

88W13'31" 41N54'51"

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When

Posted February 24th, 2011 by Shikha Sabharwal

my cat brings a string to me, she usually throws it around before she lets me take it.

When this occurrs, I don't assume that my cat is being unkind, rather that she wants to play, or that she is feeling mischievious. I don't think to myself, "what kind of person sits around playing with string?"

Rather, I pick it up and I play with her.

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