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"Integral" Narcissism

WARNING! This post contains mature subject matter and is not suitable for all audiences.

 
Q4 - Ken Wilber tells us that in order for us to begin making an impact in the real world we will need to learn to gather together into communities and influence education. Green has already done these things and the main result has been a horrible increase in unhealthy narcissism. My personal perceptions, based on my years of interacting in our community here, is that our unhealthy narcissism is much worse than anything green can even dream up. It sometimes appears here as thinly disguised attempts at personal abuse and harm. This has resulted in us losing many of our best members. I still miss them.
 
Narcissism – definition - an extreme interest in your own life and opinions that prevents you from caring about other people.
 
Narcissism – synonyms – vanity, self absorption, egotism, selfishness, conceit, self importance.
 
Ken warns us that when integral makes mistakes they tend to be really really big mistakes. No one at earlier levels will be able to fix our mistakes.
 
Narcissism - antonym – selflessness, good integral ethics, ego humility.
 
If we fail to begin with a rock solid foundation of good integral ethics I think that healthy earlier levels will have a responsibility to stamp us out, violently if necessary, before we make too many devastating mistakes due to our unhealthy narcissism.
 
Until I begin to perceive a shift away from our old cultural pattern of “integral” narcissism I do not intend to invest too much time in responding to comments.
 
No cyber-stalking please”.
 

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I agree with you Stanley, but...

Isn't there a better way to go about ending the narcissism?  I was just thinking about narcissism today.  I think this is an apt post.

In other news, I do see the forum taking a different direction.  Maybe they're gone or learned their lesson.  I think they would have a lot of value by sitting and chatting with you.  You seem to have been here from the beginning and truly know what happened/is happening to the forum.

Back in the Integral Naked days, there was a lot of projecting, hostility, cyber-stalking, pure-nastiness.  I should know, I was a contributing member.  But I just don't know if calling them out is going to work!  I wish it would!  But there has to be another way.

Best of luck, Stan-the-man,

Kelley

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self-inflation/other-devaluation

Stanley, have you read the definition for narcissism Ken offers in A Theory of Everything? It's pretty interesting:

The dictionary definition of narcissism is "excessive interest in one's own self, importance, abilities, etc.; egocentrism." Yet narcissism is not simply the overvaluing of the self and its abilities, but a concomitant undervaluing of others and their contributions. It is not simply possessing a large amount of self-esteem; it is the simultaneous devaluation of others that is crucial. The inner state of narcissism, clinicians tell us, is often that of an empty or fragmented self, attempting to fill the void with an egocentric grasping that inflates the self while deflating others. The emotional mood is, "Nobody tells me what to do!" [1]

I have gotten a lot clearer on it contemplating that and looking for that simultaneous self-inflation and other-devaluation in myself and others.

 

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Working with others, Seeing Oneself

Hi Stanley,

Do you mean the Narcissism of individuals within the integral community or that of the community-as-a-whole?

 

Here are a few thoughts about this general topic:

Gurdjieff used to say, in his barbarously uncouth multilingual accent, "To become real altruist, first must be conscious egotist!"

So there are both conscious & unconscious Narcissisms.  Very often the term is used to describe people who actively enthuse over themselves or declare their own selfishness as if it were a rule of life.  Yet this could almost be seen as a good sign when compared to those people who stay obsessively centered upon their own feeling-of-concern and yet  presume themselves to be "good, caring folks".  

Many books and teachings now decry the advent of post-modern Narcissistic culture.  However more radical texts (like  Adi Da's works -- which contributed heavily to the contemporary use of the term "narcissism" as a complaint) posit that simply believing that we are who we, assuming our separative identity, is the root act of Narcissism.  

Perhaps a good way to deal to with this, a way that both embraces Green trends and opens a path beyond them, would be to intentional adopt a Way of Conscious Narcissism.  There are many good things about the culture of hyper-individualism AND many bad things.  We need to experiment with it in order to grow through it & beyond it.

They main obstruction facing a Narcissist -- is that he does not believe he is a Narcissist.

Self-knowledge, renouncing our "virtuous" idea of our own separateness & working in teams... these seem to me good anti-narcissism practices.

 

Thanks, I've been...

Layman Pascal

 

(to receive other "Weekly Harangues" write to: pretendtomeditate@gmail.com)

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There Are Also Forms of "Integral" Hostility....

Hi Stanley,

Do you know what hostility means? 

Check this out:

Hostility (also called inimicality) is a form of angry internal rejection or denial in psychology. It is a part of personal construct psychology, developed by George Kelly. In everyday speech it is more commonly used as a synonym for anger and aggression.

In psychological terms, Kelly defined hostility as the willful refusal to accept evidence that one's perceptions of the world are in some way askew from or out of alignment with objective reality. Instead of realigning one's feelings and thoughts with objective reality, the hostile person attempts to force or coerce the world to fit their view, even if this is a forlorn hope, and even if it entails varying degrees of emotional expenditure or harm to self and others.

While challenging "apparent reality" with alternative approaches can be a useful part of life, and persistence in the face of failure is often a valuable trait in the fields of invention or discovery, in the case of hostility there is the distinction that the evidence is not accurately assessed when the decision is made to repeat the same approach. Instead the evidence is suppressed or denied, and deleted from awareness - the unfavorable evidence which might suggest that a prior belief is flawed is to various degrees ignored and willfully avoided. Metaphorically, it can be said that reality is being held for ransom, and in this sense hostility is a form of psychological extortion - an attempt to force reality to produce the desired feedback, in order that preconceptions become validated. In this sense, hostility is a response that forms part of discounting of unwanted cognitive dissonance.

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Continued

If anyone is interested in this kind of thing some of the themes expressed on this post are continued here; http://integrallife.com/member/stanley/blog/integral-culture-begins-shift

 

--

"May there be peace on Earth"