Jun Po Kelly Roshi

LOL I understand your rankle, Stef. 

But I think from Stanley's pov, you may be making his point for him. You're not really answering the question that he's asking. I think he's asking a question about Status. You're answering a question about Time. 

Stanley's question about Status is a common one. Many people who are Interested in Integral are puzzled by Ken's inaccessibility. No amount of explaining about his time will resolve it for them because it's not about how many hours he has in his day. It's about attitude. Being as sick as he is now, it may be a little more understandable for them than it once was, but when he was healthy, he was not available either. For many people, this is interpreted as snobbishness and elitism.

That's what it is at Orange. Orange people don't see you. They are packaged for their audience and their pr people handle the distribution so they never have to actually engage their fans on a personal level. Fans are consumers while the self is the product. And the self is the only actual Person. Some people think they want to be famous so they can have alot of friends. Then when they get there, they realize they've been tricked and they waste away in isolation because of the Star Machine. And then again, there's Gene Simmons. LOL He is both Whore and Pimp and he loves every minute of it. Fans are not people. They are occupational hazards. This kind of aloofness is repugnant and incomprehensible for many people. 

But this isn't about that. Ken is not a product of a Star Machine (regardless of how often IL tries to act like one!) but a freak of nature and a National Treasure. He deserves to be preserved and protected like Yosemite or the last Giant Panda Bear (Marc's term of endearment that chokes me up when I hear him speak it) because he is a miracle and the only one of his kind that we know of. And because of that its easy to lose track that he is a Person. It's obvious to me that Ken knows that being so different and given such preferential treatment creates an impression of arrogance even if you're not and that he sacrifices any personal need to be understood out of an obligation to the work. This is the Sacred Audacity that he talks about. If you're given a billion dollars, that means you have a billion obligations while the person who only has 10 dollars has only 10 obligations. Translate that somehow into cognitive ability and it becomes a question of the best possible use of his time and attention for the greatest good. When he was lifting weights, he did it so that he could sit at the computer longer and write. 

I like your quote from Shaw. He will indeed be used up. I suspect that he is even more burdened now by a sense of time running out and even less tolerant of putting any time and energy into anything that will not do the most good for the most people for the largest span of time. That may be a projection on my part. Or not. 

I've given up on the hope that I will understand everything he has written in this life, much less everything he has read. I'm hoping for a few extra lives if only to grok what he has groked. In the unmanifest it will all become clear, but I want that clarity to be embodied and I want to feel that. I want to see it in my Body too. I want to see what is possible AND be in a position to make it so. That can only happen in a Body. I hope in the future, Kens will be a dime a dozen and the world will be healed and we'll be on to new and non-violent adventures. But until then, we gotta milk that boy for everything he's got. 

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I did not mean to single Ken out and was referring to our famous leaders in general. This would include the people running our seminairs. It would not take that much time for a person to stop in every now and then with a personal note or a few words of encouragement. If our forum in an expression of the integral community I invite everyone to hang out here. In a way Ken is out of our league and in a way we are all on the same team because we are all human beings. I believe that a  good reason to be productive on this forum is if one cares about human beings. I was not referring to Ken when I was speaking of humility. At times Ken expresses humility very beautifully and I love and admire this in him. Thanks for the comment.

Stan

Hello all,

  I have always held the concept of not being sure who anyone really is, that is most certainly true in cyberspace.

  The part which a leader can contribute in this capacity might be well in action; it is up to us to discern the need for celebrity identification.

You put something into words I wanted to say many times.

It remembers me when I started to study composition with a great master,

and my rock-band members wanted me to invite him...to jam with us in the Garage.

Somehow, this fellows couldn't realize that what for us was music for him would be

the most horrible noise, or at the very best something he did like 20 years before and

was not interested anymore.

They confused my teacher's compassion and engagement, his willing to be a peer,

with an actual peer-ness, which was  obviously not there, not it would be, for that matter.

In the same way, people here (most) doesn't appear to value Ken in the way it should.

People (even integral) still lack of an understanding of development.

Still continue to think that EVEN development is there (and even, though, there is people literally

over my head) I still can comment with them freely in a peer manner.

NO WAY!

Is like saying: how nice would be to discuss about my points of view in mathematics with Einstein...?!?!?

hope with time people realize the size of this genious.

As he would put it: everyone (and everything) in this Kosmos have the same ground value;

all is a manifestation of the same very thing.

But none in this universe have the same Intrinsec value; that which depends on depth.

I think I don't have to argue with anybody about what is Ken's intrinsec value (Stefano description,

humorous, is one of the better i read).

So come on everybody -and this is not for Stanley, but for everybody that now and then demands that Ken answer they very Unique call!-, let go your ego grip and acknowledge: the great composition master WILL NOT PLAY with your rock band in the Garage.

And by the time your music get finally near his level, he will be probably death! :(

Live with that.

And step into that feeling. Does it feel painful, or bad, to acknowledge that someone have more intrinsec (depth) value than you? Well, what feels bad about it is Ego, it's exactly what you should try to decompress. And we better start to accept that idea, because it is exactly what the truth of development point to us. There are people that are "better", more important, for the whole, than you and me.

There is people that, if we were in a boat and one was to be saved, should be saved instead of me.

If I were in a boat with Ken, and someone should go to the water because of lack of space, that would be me, no doubt. He is far more important for the world.

I can live with that. Tap into that and feel it. That's I think, the death (or at least the start of the dying process) of narcissism. Of this sense that, just for birthright, you are the most important thing for the world, and kind of the center of it. 

Peace,

And thank to Stanley for the great post about Jun Po!!

I too enjoyed very much his words; still I found it a little overcharged of "eco" stuff. Not that that isn't important, but in an integral view, keeping costs low so more people from other countries can go to ISE is far more important than eating or not Organic food, for example.

Federico