Please Log in to Vote.

3 out of 3 members found this useful.

Let It Rot?

Posted July 9th, 2011 by Stanley in Sacred Service

In Reference to:

In this talk Ken reminds us that he has developed a useful and practical integral theory that should be actively used to bring more truth, goodness, and beauty into the World. At this point many of us have been studying and arguing about this theory for more than a decade. Many of us have also been doing an integral like practice, including a Spiritual practice, for many decades. So a meaningful question Ken asks is what do we do with all that we have gained? Do we use this to serve the World, to create good jobs for people, and help the poor and powerless? Or do we just let it all rot like overripe fruit falling into the dust?

The Center for World Spirituality will be having a “Retreat of Love and Activism” beginning on July 17th. I wonder if they will use some of their time and resources to live up to the retreat name and love and serve the poor and powerless by offering real world practical service and charity? Or will it just be yet another event with a group of selfish and uncaring people sitting apart together and rotting?

http://integrallife.com/node/107758

Please Login to Add Comments
show all sub-comments
Report Abuse

Please Log in to Vote.

1 out of 1 members found this useful.

request

Posted July 14th, 2011 by Campbell Wilson

Hi Stanley

I always enjoy reading your thoughts about various topics and I'm sure there are many others that take note when Yosemite Sam pops his head up on the screen. Along the lines of this post, I was wondering if you would mind putting a general question out there to see how many of the integral life community are dedicating their lives and talents to the good of all.

All the best, Cam

Please Log in to Vote.

1 out of 1 members found this useful.

i think

Posted July 11th, 2011 by Shikha Sabharwal

that, often, when you create an event with a certain non-negotiable price, the people at the event are only necessarily connected by one thing in addition to their all being people, that is, life at above a particular level of wealth. by having events like this a lot for a community of people, there can become a fear of the group that is necessarily excluded, that being those under this level of wealth, and so there's maybe a subtle way in which this group becomes the 'enemy', and becomes disowned by way of their condition. and since they are already being 'oppressed', that doesn't make things better. so service can seem particularly patronizing, and is met with resentment and animosity and judgement on both sides, which are made up of people. it happens because of how people become things in our way of relating sometimes if we are not careful abouten it.

Please Log in to Vote.

1 out of 1 members found this useful.

2 levels?

Posted July 11th, 2011 by stefano

Stanley wrote:

Or will it just be yet another event with a group of selfish and uncaring people sitting apart together and rotting?

One teacher put is as, "work on yourself so that you can better serve the world".

In a sense I wonder about two levels:

- courses for people who feel a basic lack in life, and for them the course has to be self-help

- then there could be courses for those who feel a basic abundance in life, and for them the course is about practical problem solving to help others

Perhaps it needs two stages because, if as you say the people are essentially selfish, then it doesn't matter what the course teaches, if they don't want to participate then they damn well won't. They'll leave and if you've tricked them out of their cash already then they'll do their outmost to discredit your whole organisation. So it is about working with people where they are at -- not about proving to them that they're selfish -- that lacks compassion -- it is unnecessary to push people who haven't asked to be pushed in that way.

Please Log in to Vote.

0 out of 0 members found this useful.

Thanks

Posted July 11th, 2011 by Stanley in response to 2 levels?

I think that all or at least most people are both selfish and unselfish and that we feel both the lack and the abundance of life. Transcend and include.

There is no need to try to prove that people are selfish but to also help them see the unselfish part of their self. I strongly agree that there should be no trickery involved and that starting out it might be best to make their participation voluntary, but I think that the option should be there and apparently at this point it is not. I think that it lacks compassion to have expensive events and not include the possibility of an option for doing what will help people heal and grow.

Please Log in to Vote.

1 out of 1 members found this useful.

OK, yes

Posted July 11th, 2011 by stefano in response to Thanks

After ISE2 I was a little surprised that there wasn't any set homework for after the event with a followup. I've been to things where the weekend is the course and the following week or two is a period for people to work on stuff in their own time. I can appreciate that the weekend is just an intensive and there isn't time to be going out for the afternoon to do some project. I mean, why have everyone travel to an event to see the teachers if they then spend the day out in the field? But if the setup is say, weekly meetings, then there is space for people to "do their homework" through the week. Maybe individual events are less practical for field work, but courses that span several months, with say, occasional meetings, can set something up for people to do and then people have the time to go out and do it, and then report back. Maybe the problem is really just the format. I agree with what you say, the compassionate thing is to invite people to practice selfless service, and then support people to carry it out.

Please Log in to Vote.

2 out of 2 members found this useful.

Go Stanley!

Posted July 9th, 2011 by Jennifer Grove

From what I understand, service is an important part of their whole set-up. I would be interested in how people are feeling about adding that in if they had not been doing so before. Irritated? Humbled? Joyous? Disgusted?

"Everything that arises in the confused Mind is regarded as The Path."

"The Left Hand Path, not merely the Right ... must take the lead."

~SES pg. 148

Please Log in to Vote.

1 out of 1 members found this useful.

Reaction

Posted July 9th, 2011 by Stanley in response to Go Stanley!

What if, after investing thousands of dollars people would arrive at a fancy event and be told that they were expected to go out and serve the poor as a condition of being a part of the event? How might people react?

My guest would be that initially they would feel annoyed. They might ask; “Why should I be forced to serve the poor after paying a lot of money to pamper myself?” Then after they served I would guess these same people might feel a great deal of satisfaction, wholeness, and growth. Let’s hope that someday my hypothesis is put to the test.

Please Log in to Vote.

2 out of 2 members found this useful.

i think so

Posted July 9th, 2011 by Shikha Sabharwal in response to Reaction

i think we, people, naturally respond with gratitude to genuine mercy or compassion, even if it is just for the moment named our own mercy or compassion for allowing ourselves to receive generosity. maybe if there was some clarifying disclaimer about how 'poor' isn't a type of person, rather a condition that we may have found ourselves within, even bound by, in ways. i think it's really important to really consistently work toward or intend to work toward, eliminating the confusion between people and things. i think it's really 'at the core' of pretty much all the confusions that have arisen or arise in our human consciousness. we can notice them this way. and we all know how it feels to be human.

i think most if not all of the time in an exchange, if one person is truly 'seen', which also means loved, then both people gain healing or satisfaction and growth.

there is no enemy in love

Please Log in to Vote.

1 out of 1 members found this useful.

Medicine

Posted July 10th, 2011 by Stanley in response to i think so

Yes. It seems to me that being seen and cared for is a precious medicine for the human soul. In the context of serving all parties would be healed by this cure.

As I was typing this the thought was given to me that an inexpensive alternative integral event could be something like this. While an event like our Integral Spiritual Experience is taking place local groups could stream the event in inner city churches or community centers and people attending could go out into the neighborhoods to serve. Such an event could cost very little to host and provide much benefit. We could consider doing this in Philly.

User login

Quick Links

The Archives

Please Log in to Vote.

Let It Rot?

Please Log in to Vote.

request

Please Log in to Vote.

General Question?

Please Log in to Vote.

i think

Please Log in to Vote.

Yes

Please Log in to Vote.

2 levels?

Please Log in to Vote.

Thanks

Please Log in to Vote.

OK, yes

Please Log in to Vote.

And Yes

Please Log in to Vote.

Go Stanley!

Please Log in to Vote.

Reaction

Please Log in to Vote.

i think so

Please Log in to Vote.

Medicine

Please Log in to Vote.

Yes!!

Please Log in to Vote.

Yes