.jpg)
Please Log in to Vote.
4 out of 4 members found this useful.
Integral Islam
Posted January 24th, 2009 by Tabassum Syed
In Reference to:
Religion: A Technology For HappinessI'd like to see more discussions and interviews with Muslims with an integral view. I enjoyed the presentation "Religion: A technologyfor happiness". I am one of those who have abandoned religion and I practice meditation daily. I'd like to be enlightened on the esoteric meaning of the Quran so I can be grounded in my own religion while holding an integral view of the world. What books do you recommend for me? Thanks for a fantastic effort in putting this presentation together! Often there is an uncomfortable silence about dicussing the Islamic tradition. I am truly greatful for your inclusiveness.
Regards,
Tabassum
- Please Login to Add Comments
- show all sub-comments
- Report Abuse
Please Log in to Vote.
1 out of 1 members found this useful.
Some suggestions
Posted January 25th, 2009 by Tabassum Syed in response to AgreeHey Corey,
I was actually quite delighted to check out that audio clip on "Where is Integral Islam". I wondered if people like Irshad Manji could contribute to this dialogue. Irshad Manji has a written a book called "Trouble with Islam" and is actively involved in heated debates with the muslim community. Her website is www.muslimrefusenik.com if you'd like to explore on this topic.
In the audio clip Ken Wilber mentions Hazrat Inayat Khan and Pir Vilayat Khan. I wondered if Elizabeth Lesser could speak a bit more extensively on the Sufi tradition and her own journey with Pir Vilayat Khan. Also Pir Zia Khan (the son of Pir Vilayat Khan ) has a website called called www.sevenpillars.org. He may be a person of interest in this dialogue.....
Thank You for letting me know that you are keeping an eye out for Muslims with a more integral view on Islam. I certainly look forward to discussions of this nature.
Warm regards,
Tabassum
Please Log in to Vote.
1 out of 1 members found this useful.
Good stuff....
Posted January 25th, 2009 by Corey deVos in response to Some suggestionsi'll be sure to follow these leads when i get just a little more time, and see where they take us....
i just moved these two talks over to Integral Life for you. let me know what you think....
Spirit's Pipeline to a More Integral Tomorrow
Part 1: Sufism in a Post-9/11 World
Sheikh Ragip and Stuart Davis
Spirit's Pipeline to a More Integral Tomorrow
Part 2: Humor, Love, and Skillful Means
Sheikh Ragip and Stuart Davis
--
Corey W deVos
(dj rekluse)
Managing Editor, Integral Naked
Writer, Content Producer, and Audio Manager, Integral Life
Managing Editor, KenWilber.com
"Include the Values, Negate the View!"
Please Log in to Vote.
0 out of 0 members found this useful.
Sheikh Ragip
Posted January 27th, 2009 by Tabassum Syed in response to Good stuff....The dialogue between Stuart Davis and Sheikh Ragip was most helpful. I wanted to find out if in some undefined way I was actually following the sufi path by meditating on the heart. My system involves cleaning the heart of impressions, thus creating a vaccum for the divine energy to flow in. It involves depending on a teacher/guru with faith and allowing yourself to to be guided by him. As Sheikh Ragip (bless his heart) mentioned that he is merely functioning as a conduit in chanelling the divine energy, my system too has preceptors acting as conduits. The only difference is that this system is based on the Vedas. I see a parallel in the esoteric aspects of both religions and therefore comfortable with defining myself as 'Spirtual but not religious' and a 'Sufi'.
--
Tabassum
- Please Login to Add Comments
- Report Abuse
Please Log in to Vote.
3 out of 3 members found this useful.
mystical Islam
Posted January 25th, 2009 by Kerry DuganTabassum,
In answer to your request for suggested readings on esoteric meanings of the Quran...
There's one book by Sheikh Nur, Lex Hixon, who, like Sheikh Ragip, Robert Frager, taught in the Halveti-Jerrahi Order of Dervishes. Heart of the Koran, from Qwest Books (ISBN 0-8356-0636-8).
Sheikh Nur's teacher was Muzaffer Efendi, nineteenth in the line of leaders going back to the sixteenth century. Efendi recognized Lex as a door to updating the tradition, as someone whose gifts placed him as a bridge between the old and the new while aligned within the contemplative lineage.
Here's a enlarged detail from my charcoal portrait of Muzaffer Efendi [peace be upon him] that may still hang in Masjid al Farrah in lower Manhattan.
Kerry
Please Log in to Vote.
2 out of 2 members found this useful.
Your portrait
Posted January 26th, 2009 by Linda Hollier in response to mystical IslamHi Kerry
I remembered reading in your profile that you did photorealist portraiture. The detail from you charcoal portrait of Muzaffer Efendi is beautiful. Thank you for sharing it.
Have you seen the You tube clip of Muzaffer Efendi? In it there is a picture of him which captures the same look you have portrayed in your portrait.
I once noted a number of Sufi sayings that appealed to me. Here are a few of them:
God said, “To reveal the secrets of my abundant love, I created a mirror whose face is consciousness and whose back is the world.”
Jalaluddin Rumi
“OK. So I left the mosque and went to the alehouse! The sermon was interminably long, and valuable time was wasting away.”
Hafiz
“People who think anyone is lower than themselves still have pride.”
Bayazid al-Bistami
“When Loqman was asked from whom he learnt goodness, he replied, ‘From those without goodness, because what seemed unbecoming in them I avoid doing myself’”.
Sa’di
“Beware of the dangers of fame. Live among ordinary folk and don’t seek to be a somebody”.
Bayazid Al-Bistami
I don’t know why, but somehow I think the last saying could have been written by Kerry Dugan. Your humility has always shone through your comments.
Keep well
Linda
Please Log in to Vote.
2 out of 2 members found this useful.
charisms of development
Posted January 26th, 2009 by Kerry Dugan in response to Your portraitLinda dear, Thanks for appreciating that piece that I failed to format to a reasonable size!
The Jerrahi Order may have been uniquely situated to carry the core of Islam through worldcentric. Looking at the context of it's history in Constantinople, a crossroad Europe, Asia, and points south, a vortext of intercultural access, the Order was born into an infrastructure of inclusivity.
Friendship being a central value and key injunction of Sufi/mystical Islamic tradition, Taking Hand in the Order, a resonance triggered inclusiveness by which individuals belonging to any group, religion, or class were recognized as validly equal companions, was an innovation that florished in those practice communities. Open, multi-valent, these dervishes, I think, streamlined the process of amber exit by focusing primarily on the qualitative, heart (esoteric) facets of being and allowing the external apparent (egsoteric) aspects to be seen in their partiality.
So, the charism of the Order may have pre-figured an integral approach in that the discipline of amber was not jetisoned while deconstructions of the membership ethos became habit.
If Islam is literally "Surrender" we can trace dynamics of who surrenders to what, how and why, at successive stages.
Through the intimate friendship of Muzaffer Efendi and Sheikh Nur a long momentum of inclusivity (in several senses of the term), and transcendence, has given us an example of a modern Islam reaching a postmodern Islam, establishing further ground for the fruition of Integral Islam.
In Sha-Allah,
Kerry
Please Log in to Vote.
0 out of 0 members found this useful.
The Conference of the Birds
Posted January 26th, 2009 by Linda Hollier in response to charisms of development
This comment has been deleted by the author.
- Please Login to Add Comments
Please Log in to Vote.
1 out of 1 members found this useful.
The Conference of the Birds.
Posted January 26th, 2009 by Linda Hollier in response to charisms of developmentI have spent approx. 45 minutes trying to post this comment, and it keeps coming up blank. So I have just decided to repost it. Here goes.
If Islam is literally "Surrender" we can trace dynamics of who surrenders to what, how and why, at successive stages.
Maybe it is appropriate to share with others, "The Conference of the Birds", Farid ad-Din Attar's epic
masterpiece, at this point:
The birds of the world are gathered around the hoopoe, who has been chosen to guide them on a
journey to see the Simurgh: King of the Birds.
The birds take an oath to follow the hoopoe because only he knows the way, a way fraught with danger and emotional adversity.
To reach the Simurgh the birds will have to cross seven treacherous valleys, each representing a station
along the way.
1. The first is the Valley of the Quest. Here the birds must "renounce the world" and repent of their sins.
2. The second is the Valley of Love, where each bird will be plunged into fire, "until his very being is enflamed".
3. Next is the Valley of Mystery, where each bird takes a different path, for "there are so many roads, and each is fit? For that pilgrim who must follow it."
4. In the Valley of Detachment, "all claims, all lust for meaning disappear".
5. In the Valley of Unity, the many are merged into one: "The oneness of diversity/ Not oneness locked in singularity".
6. When they reach the Valley of Bewilderment, the weary birds break through traditional dualities and are confronted by the emptiness of their being. "I have no certain knowledge anymore".
7. Arriving at the Valley of Nothingness, stripped of their egos, the birds "put on the cloak that signifies oblivion" and are consumed by the spirit of the universe.
When all seven valleys have been crossed and the birds have learned to "destroy the mountain of the Self" and "give up the intellect for love", they are allowed to continue to the throne of the Simurgh.
Of the thousands that started the journey only thiry make it to the end. When they finally set eyes upon the king, they are astonished to see not the King of the Birds, but themselves. (Simurgh is the Persian word for "thirty birds").
"I am the mirror set before your eyes," the Simurgh says. "And all who come before my splendour see/
Themselves, their own unique reality".
In Sha-Allah.
Please Log in to Vote.
2 out of 2 members found this useful.
getting t/here
Posted January 26th, 2009 by Kerry Dugan in response to The Conference of the Birds.ah, the poetry of it all...
Linda, I did get to the clip of Efendi you linked to, just before needing to logout and go. Meanwhile, there you were posting these perfectly empty pages with only their size to indicate content, or some manner of substance. Returning from that recording of Efendi, finding a big blank with reference to the conference of the birds was delightful!
Then seeing Corey's reminder of The Eye of Spirit, begining with The Great Search, gave another poetic turn.
I'd imagine that the valleys the birds are challenged with are more horizontal than stage related. More like a spatial representation of the search saga, whereas, say, in The Wizard of Oz, challenges are divied among characters, in Conference... they're set up as a sequence.
Anyhow, I for one am amused.
K
Please Log in to Vote.
1 out of 1 members found this useful.
Blank pages
Posted January 26th, 2009 by Linda Hollier in response to getting t/hereI too was struck by the blank pages. At one stage, when I was able to overcome my annoyance, I thought that maybe the blank page said more than anything I could consider writing!
The seven valleys the birds are challenged with are, I agree, more related to states than stages. Isn't it amazing how they are to be found in all the mystical writings across the world. The seven mansions of Teresa of Avila's "Interior Castle" come to mind as does kundalini yoga and the system of the seven chakras. And then there's Jung's integration of the conscious and the unconscious.
In "Reaching True Peace" Rod Davis speaks of 7 realms:
1. The Call to Awakening
2. The Battle field of the Personal Unconscious
3. The Fire Sacrifice
4. Birth of the Spiritual Self
5. Deconstructing the Mind-process
6. The Empty real Heaven Within Our selves
7. The 'Peace that Passeth All Understanding'
I have started fitting the Beatitudes into this scheme too, but have not completed the task yet.
- Please Login to Add Comments
- Report Abuse
Please Log in to Vote.
1 out of 1 members found this useful.
Always already
Posted January 26th, 2009 by Linda Hollier in response to getting t/here"Getting t/here". How apt!
- Please Login to Add Comments
- Report Abuse
Please Log in to Vote.
3 out of 3 members found this useful.
Pioneers
Posted February 24th, 2009 by Richard Coates in response to mystical IslamI consider myself an integral christian but even with my limited reading I recognise that Moslems were, in the middle ages, the pioneers of tolerance who started to move beyond an ethnocentric viewpoint - and that the Sufis in particular had developed this further - I have only read 1 book - "The way of the Sufi" by Idries Shah, but it is clear from the collected aphorisms and stories that they had this understanding. The problem with our Abrahamic faiths though is that these jewels of understanding are sometimes hidden by those who seek to exercise political or organisational control at an ethnocentric level. In Christianity much that was of value was suppressed by the Nicene Council in order to ensure a unity, which admittedly did preserve the church through the dark ages, but led to some grotesque and horrific distortions of the faith: the crusades,the inquisition etc Anyway, may I wish you my Moslem brothers and sisters every success and enlightenment in your search for a more integral faith.
In peace.
Richard
- Please Login to Add Comments
- Report Abuse
Please Log in to Vote.
3 out of 3 members found this useful.
Agree
Posted January 24th, 2009 by Corey deVosHey Tabassum, just wanted you to know that i completely agree, and am trying to keep my eye on that particular ball. The problem is, we simply have not had very many integral-Islamic perspectives coming through our door--though they would certainly be welcome if they did. Let me know if you have any ideas around how to cultivate more of an integral Muslim perspective and community here on Integral Life; i am certainly open to them.
In the meantime, i invite you to check out this audio clip, if you haven't already, in which Ken discusses exactly this issue:
Where is Integral Islam?
Also, i do have a small handful of dialogues on Integral Naked about an integral approach to Sufism that i will try to bring over to Integral Life in the next few days, in response to this discussion. Not very much, but enough to hopefully make a tiny dent in the silence. I will update this blog when i do!
--
Corey W deVos
(dj rekluse)
Managing Editor, Integral Naked
Writer, Content Producer, and Webmaster, Integral Life
Managing Editor, KenWilber.com
"Include the Values, Negate the View!"