Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): The topic today is, America first is not Christian.

Sarah Stock: What do you mean by Christian?

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): I don't know what specific denomination you subscribe to. I would say anybody that agrees to the Apostles Creed fundamentally is typically viewed as Christian. So Protestants Catholics typically do, I think some sects of Mormon also appeal to the Apostles Creed. Eastern Orthodox, you are America first, I'm assuming, since we would compete to it. But you're also a Christian nationalist.

Sarah Stock: Yes.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): Okay, square that circle for me. What exactly is America first about being a Christian nationalist?

Sarah Stock: Well, the question is, is being America first Christian? I would argue that 100% is, and we can look at St. Thomas Aquinas' idea of ordered love. Meaning you have a responsibility to the people closest to you. So just like it's immoral, if you were to feed your neighbor's kids while your own kids go hungry, it's equally immoral to support policies that harm your country's people, but benefit those from other countries. And this has been explained in the catechism as well.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): That's really weird. So correct, maybe I'm wrong about the Bible. My understanding is that God gave up godliness to come down to earth, right? He sacrificed it.

Sarah Stock: No, he did not. Jesus is also a god and a man.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): Yeah, but he'd be also, we can man, right? I mean, Jesus is going to pull up the verse for you. God's sacrificial love. We can just go there if he wants to.

Sarah Stock: Jesus is fully god and fully man, yes.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): Okay, great. So God sacrificed by coming down. In fact, he sacrificed so much that he died for not just his friends, not just white Americans, but for I'm assuming the world, right? Yes. Okay, so sacrificial love seems to be a pretty fundamental piece of Christian ethos. Would you not agree?

Sarah Stock: Yeah, are you going to respond to my claim that ordered love is virtuous? Like, okay, what do you think? Like, if I were to feed my neighbor's kids, but my own kids went hungry, do you think that's virtuous because you're loving your neighbor's kids? It depends on if you're feeling that you're called to do so, right?

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): I would imagine that God would probably say that you would split it, right? Like, I don't know in what world I'd be like, I have one loaf of bread. I can't possibly figure out fractions and just like give all of it away.

Sarah Stock: Poor people exist. So yeah, that is definitely.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): I don't know how that's a rebuttal. You're right. Poor people do exist. Thank you. Who would rich people exist? Yes. White people exist.

Sarah Stock: I'm just saying that's not a possible. There is quite literally a Bible verse that says, if I have no doubt, that's the most of it. If you're going to cite the Bible, there is a Bible verse that quite literally says that if you were to feed, that if you were to take care of someone else's child before your own, you are worse than an unbelievable, but then, that site where that's from. It's in first Timothy something. I don't remember.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): Okay.

Sarah Stock: I'm sure that's that. Why is it quite, it is. You guys can look it up. That's a verse.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): Sure. So here's one of the issues, right? You're creating like this world where, essentially, I have a loaf of bread and I'm going, hmm, actually, I'm going to give note of this. But the America first, like, look at America right now, right? America doesn't go. We're actually going to spend zero money on Americans. We're not going to have welfare. We actually do have these things. And then we also do things like USAID, which I imagine you're opposed to. And so the whole issue with being a Christian is there is a fundamental piece which is care taking of others, right? If you want to look, for example, I'm sure you know this. Do you know the parable of like the Good Samaritan?

Sarah Stock: Yes, I do.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): Okay. So what is, what happens in the Good Samaritan?

Sarah Stock: There's, why are you, yes, I understand like, if someone is suffering, you can't help them out. But there is a certain amount of resources that America has. If we were to give away all of our resources to other countries and our own people, because

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): nobody is saying, give away all of our resources.

Sarah Stock: There's a limit of amount of resources, yes.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): That is true.

Sarah Stock: Just like there is a fraction of existence. Just like there is a fraction of existence. Just like there is a fraction of existence.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): Just like there is a fraction of existence. What I'm advocating for when I'm saying that America first, so when I say America first is on Christian, is because fundamentally what it does is it looks at every resource that America has. The number one economy in the world, right? Trillions. It's worth trillions of dollars a year. And it says, you know what? We can't help others. It has to fundamentally be about us all the time. Not only, not only is this stupid foreign policy because soft power is incredibly important and it weakens our allyships, but on top of this, it's fundamentally selfish. What you're saying is, I know I have a lot, but nobody else can have any of mine. That's not Christian. I'm not saying America should bankrupt itself and give away all of its money and then like live in the gutter. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that America first supports the banishing of USAID. It supports not helping Ukraine in the war. That to me is both fundamentally selfish and un-Christian.

Sarah Stock: So what I think that America first is about is simply, it doesn't mean we can't help other countries or even other people live outside America. Do you support the banning of USAID? Can I finish, please?

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): Do you support the banning of USAID?

Sarah Stock: Can I finish what I was saying? What you can't, I'm just going to have to be in question. We put American interests first. That's what it means. It means that we are not prioritizing.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): I hear you.

Sarah Stock: I hear you. So even with Ukraine, I mean, even if I'm not even fully against sending any money or helping out Ukraine at all, because if we were to help Ukraine and that helps America, I'm fine with that.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): I hope Ukraine, if it helps you, very Christian, by the way. Look, well, he generously you, but only fundamentally, it's good for me, guys, you know?

Sarah Stock: I'm a foreign policy level. Why would I support foreign policy that is bad for America? Like, what kind of, what are you trying to say?

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): Why would supporting Ukraine be bad for America?

Sarah Stock: I think it would depend on the specific USAID.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): Okay. Being malaria injections to the poorest in Africa, which has been banned, by the way, why

Sarah Stock: that bad? We have poor people here in America. Like, would you rather money go to people in another country? Do we have welfare?

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): Do we have welfare? Yes. Do you support? Wait, hold on. Do you support welfare? I support it. Like, yeah, in certain situations, there are four people getting food stamps.

Sarah Stock: Yeah, sure, in certain situations. I'm not fully understanding.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): What are the situations you would not allow people to get food stamps?

Sarah Stock: If they're just, like, if they don't have a disability, if they're not working as significant hours, they're not trying to find a job. I don't see why we should pay for them.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): So, okay, so a lot of people on food stamps are, like, war vets and stuff like that. Are you for supporting war vets? Are you for helping them in that way?

Sarah Stock: This is kind of going, okay, so you support the question. She's not going to answer the question. Just to clarify her position. You are okay with us having foreign policy that does not directly benefit America. Is that your position? So, because you, because I was saying, I support American foreign policy that benefits America. That's my position. What's your position? Do you support? How is USAID?

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): How is USAID bad for America? How is it benefit America? Well, in large part, when you help African countries with, like, some of the most destitute issues that they have, those countries tend to be warmer towards America. So that, for example, if you need to establish a military outpost, which is very important in wars, by the way, you have these countries' good relationships where you might be able to establish an embassy and be able to go there. USAID is not only just good practically, it's also morally good, because guess what? Children in Africa dying because of malaria when we can just help them is bad, actually. And if America, for example, after USAID, do you know how many people died after USAID got ended? 600,000. Two-thirds of which were children, by the way. That's very Christian of us.

Sarah Stock: Okay.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): But you support that.

Sarah Stock: I support American policies that benefit America. Yeah, yeah.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): I got you.

Sarah Stock: And I don't know how you're saying that's incompatible with Christianity.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): Because Christianity is fundamentally oriented by being selfish. You're saying, well, I might help these poor people, but I know that it's going to help me first.

Sarah Stock: If I'm patriotic, if I'm patriotic, and I say, I care about Americans, I support policies that are going to help Americans more than everybody else. Are you talking to me? Are you talking to them? I'm talking to them. Yes. Why? I'm talking to you. I hope you're debate about it. If I support policy, I'm going to play some American interests first, and help Americans. Doesn't mean we can't help anyone else, but I care about Americans more than others. So, because I'm America.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): I love his son to die because it was good for him. That Christ allowed his son to die because it was just good for him.

Sarah Stock: No, he loved others. And I think we should love others too. I'm not. Would you say it was actually selfless? I'm not loving my fellow countryman. If I care about someone on the other side of the world, I can't you just care about both.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): I feel like I can both support welfare within my state. Of course I can. We do it right now. We only have a limited amount of resources, and yet America was able to both manage a welfare state and USA.

Sarah Stock: So, where's your limit? Where's your limit? How about that? Where's your limit for helping others? Do you have one? Like, when it comes to America sending our money overseas, like, do you have a limit? Like, there's a certain point where it's added detriment to America. Right?

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): Would you not agree with that? Would you not agree with that? I mean, the amount of money that America would have to be sending overseas, that would actually be detrimental. One of the problems with this is, again, your lack of foreign policy knowledge. For example, why is it good for America to send weaponry to Ukraine? Do you know why?

Sarah Stock: I think it's good because Ukraine can be an ally, because I see Ukraine as part of sort of an American outpost right now. I support American imperialism, so I would be okay with that.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): Right. Like, the slightest scale, like, how much is too much? It's like, you're fundamentally not even understanding the way that foreign policy exchange happens, which is still devoid from the Christian argument, for example, which would say, as a good Samaritan, what did he do? He pulled over, he gave him a swine and oil, and he paid for everything. Yeah. I think we should do that. I think we should do that. Except for us. Except for us. Except for us.

Sarah Stock: Except for us. Except for us. Except for us. Except for us. Except for us. Except for us. Except for us. Security policies have to prioritize… It's like our nation. It has to help us out.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): So, first of all, still just bad foreign policy, there's a reason why all Western democracies have created this, like, an exchange rate.

Sarah Stock: I'm actually here for some reason, thinking, I don't support backing Ukraine when I've said multiple times that I'm fine with.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): Do you support U.S. aid?

Sarah Stock: I am supporting…

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): What? U.S. aid. I've asked you a million times, do you support U.S. aid?

Sarah Stock: Probably not.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): I don't know exactly what I'm saying about a good thing about this, too. And the only reason you support Ukraine is because it benefits us.

Sarah Stock: if it benefits America in some way.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): Yeah, this is like the un-Christian piece, right? Like if you're just a secularist who's like, honestly, I'm selfish, as long as it benefits me, that I'm happy. Are you the American? Wait, is that what you think American? Are you American? No, I'm Canadian.

Sarah Stock: Oh, okay, so that's why no parent on a putting America first, you're Canadian.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): You don't even understand your own foreign policy. That's not a dumb thing. You think it is. I can assure you you're my friend. If a Canadian, if a Canadian understands your politics better than you do, that's a dumb one.

Sarah Stock: I support you going back to Canada and being Canada first over there, and I'm going to be America first here.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): I'm a legal immigrant of America. Is that a problem for you? Don't clap, please.

Sarah Stock: I don't know. I think it's fine. I support that moratorium right now, so.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): What, white, so that's a good one, right?

Sarah Stock: Well, I'll let you say, it's okay.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): Well, are you happy? Are you okay with me being an immigrant in your country?

Sarah Stock: I just said I'll let you say, sure.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): I don't, okay, I don't even know what answer that is.

Sarah Stock: I'm from Canada, that's fine, I guess.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): So if we want to go back, for example, U.S. generosity is the leading form of global health and humanitarian relief. U.S. aid saves lives by preventing HIV, preventing AIDS, disrupting labor issues. Yeah, there's a world.

Sarah Stock: We have a world of aid too.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): Why, why, as a nation who was born on up, you would probably argue, Christian values. Why would a nation develop for centuries to have a policy of understanding and helping others, not just within our borders, but outside of it, and now you as a great smart Christian nationalist comes along and says, actually it's more Christian to only care about Americans because I think somewhere in the Bible, God says, God loved everyone, but actually he only liked Americans, right? I think it's probably Galatians 3, 28, let's see. There is no, there is a, there is both Greek and non-Greek, nor Jew, nor branded, or free theology, or female, for one of you, all in one place. Have you heard of the concept of ordered love? Yeah, of course.

Sarah Stock: So do you agree with that? It depends, what does this even mean? In what context? In the context, like I mentioned before, caring for your family before other people.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): So again, it depends on what we mean. Like if I say neglect your family, well, why are you laughing, of course, right? If you say, should you neglect your family? No, obviously not. But the issue is that you're...

Sarah Stock: What if you're neglecting your family to help other people? Is that justified in your...

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): It's not. Okay, so why am I... I just said neglect is bad, but the issue is you're acting, the America first paradigm, acts like this is a zero-sum game, right? The idea that you have to put America first and foremost, while, as you said, is maybe a good idea if all you care about is being greedy and concerned with your own self. But again, you're a Christian. Christian should not be fundamentally focused on only helping others because it benefits them, which is what you said. You said, I'll help them, but only if it benefits me. There's not a single fucking thing that's Christian about that, right? Christianity is fundamentally about generosity to others. It's about looking at people and seeing them with love. It's about looking past the borders and saying, you are loved because God made you, not because you're American, not because you're white. That's Christian. And what you're doing, you can have these principles, but you don't for a second get to pretend that it's Christian.

Sarah Stock: I think it's just like odd that you come here from Canada to America and say, I want your country to support foreign policy that is detrimental or economic policy or immigration policy. And say it's detrimental to America.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): That never happens.

Sarah Stock: That never happens. And I find that very strange. She's again, you're just not talking to me. I think we need to take the look at our immigration system and be like, Sarah, what are we doing here?

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): If your best dunk is, aren't you Canadian, but I'm still beating you on understanding of American foreign policy, that's not it.

Sarah Stock: But you quite literally go to another country and tell them you need to support policies

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): that would happen if in Canada. I might have the same pro-delection. Do you think that I think Canada should be only Canada first?

Sarah Stock: You should, yeah. I think you should.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): I'll ask for my question again. Do you think that my predisposition is that if I went to Canada? I'd just be Canada first.

Sarah Stock: French being French first. I support Ethiopian, Ethiopian first. You've made it clear, you're selfish.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): We get it. You only help others if it benefits you. You've made that very clear from the beginning. USAID, will I stop malaria? Will I stop children in Africa from dying? Well, does it benefit us? I'm a Christian, by the way. God's love is awesome.

Sarah Stock: Do you think the people in Japan are like, oh, I want policies that hurt Japan in help. What's hurting America about USAID?

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): What's hurting America about USAID?

Sarah Stock: Sending our billions of our tax dollars to people that are honored. How is that hurting America? Because that money could go to our people and strengthen our country.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): Could you say the same thing about Ukrainian all the arms that were sending them? Why are we sending them arms? Can't we shouldn't we keep that for ourselves? Well, because you believe it.

Sarah Stock: Well, because there's foreign policy, like you mentioned, like how supporting Ukraine could in turn benefit America because they're an ally.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): So you're talking one side of your mouth and you're insisting that the policy that I'm suggesting is detrimental, but then you can outline how all of the policies I've listened to are both fries to poll. And on the other side of your mouth, you're trying to be like, well, don't you think that it would be bad to neglect your family? Yeah, it's bad to neglect your family. You know, like doing like the bottom barrel like, don't you think rape is bad? Yeah, we've gotten there. The issue is that fractions exist and things like trillions of dollars exist, which is why we had USAID. It's why we had this foreign policy. Not only did we have this foreign policy because it's good for America, but as a Christian, I would like to support it if we can afford it to get this immigration to do.

Sarah Stock: Do you want to move to immigration?

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): No, we're not here to debate immigration. We're here to debate America's forces.

Sarah Stock: That's part of the America first policy, right?

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): So I support an America first. She's got a little brown people running trouble. She's like, but brown people are kind of weird, right?

Sarah Stock: You can calm down, it's OK. I support an America first policy that benefits Americans over people from foreign nations. And I think that should be reflected in our immigration policy too. So for instance, with the working class, we've lost so much of our industrial jobs because they've been sent a free trade issue, but we've been sending so much of our jobs overseas and in the same way because we've been letting so many people flooding the borders. It's a lot harder for the working class to find jobs.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): So in 2017, there was a tear of imposed on the steel manufacturing industry to try to bring steel manufacturing back to America. Do you know what it did for American jobs and steel manufacturing? Didn't think so. What it did is it shrunk jobs. The reason that we export labor is because Americans are paid for their time, not for their labor, whereas overseas is typically the end product of their labor. Now you and I could have a long lengthy conversation about how that's probably bad, but that would be a liberal talking point, not a conservative talking point. And while I might have issues with the way that we economically handle other countries in so far as we often take advantage of their poverty, which I think is not good, the reason that we export labor like this is because it's fundamentally cheaper.

Sarah Stock: It's cheaper for corporations, yes, but it ends up hurting American workers because their wages have been steadily.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): And you should get on my side and say that we should have actual like effective policies to hold corporations responsible for the way that they decimate American lives.

Sarah Stock: I agree with that. Why are you assuming

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): that you're more like the vaccine corporations more?

Sarah Stock: Sure, I'm also for employers, I'm also for reassuring our manufacturing, I'm also for policies that support American workers rather than immigrants.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): Do you know why H1Bs are so important to us? Let's focus on one industry, cyber security. Do you know anything about the cyber security industry?

Sarah Stock: Not that much.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): Okay, let's just take this more broadly. Do you know why H1Bs are so valued in America and why your president doesn't want to get rid of them?

Sarah Stock: Because Indians do work for cheaper and they also usually are able to work longer hours because their jobs are tied to their visas. So they're much easier to be abused by their employers and that's why, yes. So that's one reason. So it's actually good for corporations. It's not good for all the people we told to get STEM degrees who now went to Silicon Valley and can't get a job because they're too expensive.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): That's not what's happening in Silicon Valley. That is not why the unemployment issue. A reason that there's unemployment issues because there's a massive staffing bubble that happened during COVID in particularly soft industries like cyber security. Cyber security, one of the reasons why H1Ps are so essential for that industry is because the level of training you basically need to have like your last certification needs to be updated within like the last year or two. So a lot of American trained people, they just don't have it. We actually cannot fill jobs at high levels. So the reason we have H1Bs is we pull the people over so that they can fill these jobs. And now I agree with some of the abuses that happened to these individuals. Again, this is a little talking point. I don't like that. I would like to see things like better hours managed and better equal pay, which actually Biden suggested doing a lot of these things. But you guys shut down the immigration bill because you wanted to win an election. You don't actually want to solve your problems.

Announcer: All right, and then we're going to stop this debate. Holy hell, that was spicy, that was really good. That was one of our best yet. Wow.

Kyla Turner (notsoerudite): So yeah. That was really worth it. But I don't think you're going to have any more of that. I think it's really good. I don't think you're going to have to do that. Okay. But that's good. Alright, well, thank you. I'm going to stop here. I'm going to stop here. Okay. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey.