Stephen A. Smith: Welcome to the Special Edition of the Straight Shooter. Listen, I believe that coming together means engaging with people who don't always agree. And that is exactly what Straight Shooter is all about, showcasing diverse perspectives as I've told you are repeatedly. On this episode, I will speak with a former NBA player who's now running as a GOP candidate for the United States Senate in Minnesota and a Houston-born Democrat who was a former candidate for the United States Congress in Texas. Please welcome the Straight Shooter with yours truly, the one and only Royce White and of course Isaiah Martin. Good afternoon, fellas. How y'all doing?

mixed voices: How's everything? Good, great.

Stephen A. Smith: Good to see you. First order of business, is it appropriate? And I'll start with you first. Same question to both of you. I'll start with you first, Isaiah. Is it appropriate to call you a liberal or is there something else you'd like us to call you? And in your case, Royce, you are conservative or is there something else we'd like you to call you? Isaiah, I'll let you answer that question first, just so the audience knows who they're listening to.

Isaiah Martin: Now, definitely a liberal, but, you know, I'm a Democrat, you know, I've been a Democrat my whole life, so I guess that would be it.

Royce White: What about you, Royce? I'm an American citizen and a patriot. I would probably describe my politics as Christo nationalist and populist ultra-magical America first if we had to be specific, but I'm an American patriot.

Stephen A. Smith: When you look at the situations involving America right now, the state of affairs going on in America. Let's start with you, Royce. How would you describe the state of America as we see it right now today?

Royce White: Hey, us, crisis, unmoored from reality, a lack of leadership, a lack of sacred honor, a lack of genuineness, a fourth rightness, a lack of people who are not willing to be bought and paid for a lack of epidemic of sellouts. There are a lot of problems.

Stephen A. Smith: Would you point to the Trump administration as being included in the salute where you just gave?

Royce White: I would say that there are elements of the administration that are having some of those issues. For sure. I think overall, the President of the United States is a man who, by all measures, was willing and you need these kind of guys to stand up and be crazy enough to say, crucified me. If need be. None of our leaders are going to be perfect. All of them are going to be extremely flawed, increasingly, and an increasingly decadent culture that we've created in this country. Every leader is going to be flawed, but you do need people that are just crazy enough to stand up and say, crucified me against all of the momentum of social norms and the convenience of the status quo. I think President Trump has done that for the better part of 10 years now. He celebrated his 80th birthday recently. He's at the tail end of his career and at the tail end of his life. Your people are going to have to pick up the mantle and lead this country in the right direction, and I'm proud to be one of the candidates trying to do that.

Stephen A. Smith: Isaiah, you just heard what Royce had to say as a liberal Democrat in this nation right now. I'll ask you the same question that I just asked Royce about. What do you believe the state of America to be right now and how much of that do you attribute to this specific administration more so than anything else?

Isaiah Martin: Well, I actually agree with the beginning of what Royce said is the lack of leadership president of the United States has utterly failed at pretty much everything that he set out to do. He said that we would have gas prices as national average for less than two bucks a gallon that never happened. He said he would bring inflation down. That never happened. He said he was going to bring energy bills and cut them in half and set them up by more than 13%. Healthcare premium syrup, everything in America across a lot more than what it was when Trump got started. So yes, it is a lack of leadership. And personally, I don't believe in participation trophies for these politicians. And I believe that a lot of people that are on the conservative side are constantly looking to give Trump participation trophy. He has utterly failed. And I think that personally, we need an agenda in the United States that prioritizes common sense. And I believe that that is using our tax dollars to invest in America to go and provide things like universal healthcare, universal child care. That's the type of direction that I think that America needs to be in. And I think that frankly, if we get the right leadership, America can be much stronger than what it is today.

Stephen A. Smith: Before I go back to Royce, Isaiah, let me ask you this question. What do you say to those that would look at the Trump administration and say, at the very least, it's better than what Biden gave you during his four years in office? How would you return? How would you ever talk? Be the day.

Isaiah Martin: Like news. I mean, point blank. You can look at facts. Don't really care about, you know, feelings in many ways. And like I said, if you look at inflation, inflation is up and unemployment is up. You can see that in private sector investment to build new manufacturing facilities are up. Everything. I'm sorry, is down. We see that ultimately the things that Donald Trump set out to go and do, he has not delivered on. So when you look at the economic standpoint of this golden age in America that he thought that we were going to receive, none of that stuff is ended up happening. And if we've been following the news of the last 24 hours of the developments of this Iran deal, this is an America last agenda that ultimately is leaving Americans behind. Royce, how do you respond today?

Royce White: I think the criticism of President Trump in this particular case is coming from the left. And I regard it to be a legitimate on face value from the outset. Any criticism of President Trump and his administration from the left is political theater. The only legitimate criticism of President Trump's administration is from the right and saying that he hasn't gone far enough in the things that he wanted to do or said he wanted to do to help save this republic in great part because the public scrutiny and criticism from the middle and from the left would be incredible. Like for example, securing our elections, which our elections aren't secure. And if you need a reference, you can go back and listen to Amy Klobuchar and Kamala Harris in the 2018 documentary Kiltrain say that the machines can be hacked, they even actually, they actually held a senatorial committee demonstration where they demonstrated that the machines can be hacked. So that's one thing. We say another like restoring the border or closing the border. We sealed the border up for the most part, but the border is now restored until we deport the 15 million conservatively born invaders at Joe Biden and his administration led into this country intentionally. We can go further on down the line, but the only real criticism that I, you know, count as legitimate is from the right that President Trump hasn't gone far enough and the reason he hasn't gone far enough is because the center right republican establishment is favorable to liberal and Democrat policies and they always have been, which is why they protect that status quo. And Amy Klobuchar actually actually went to say Amy Klobuchar is the perfect example. You have all these leftists who say free Palestine, but then they're willing to vote for a person like Amy Klobuchar, Minnesota, who's one of the most well-funded APAC candidates in the entire country. The contradiction is intergalactic.

Stephen A. Smith: What do you say, though, when Isaiah brings up the fact that inflation caused the living affordability issues? Those are incredibly pertinent issues that President Trump has been paying on, but he hasn't addressed because you even have mega-republicans, maybe not you specifically. I don't know. I'm going to let you answer that question, but mega-republicans that haven't been on this show yet anyway, they bloviated and they've lamented the fact that he hasn't put America first. They've been dealing with stuff overseas entirely too much that he hasn't prioritized what's in the best interest of America, and he's left the American citizens behind. He's going against what he campaigned on, which sort of touches at least to some degree on what Isaiah alluded to. What do you say to that?

Royce White: Well, I would say there's perfect utility to a lot of those criticisms, especially the America last agenda in our foreign policy. Our formation of foreign policy is not rightly ordered. St. Augustine said it best, the definition of perfect definition of virtue is rightly ordered love, rightly ordered love, rightly ordered charity. Our foreign policy is not an example of rightly ordered love or charity, and I would agree with those things. A lot of the America first wing is not happy with the war. I hope that it ends as soon as possible. But again, the spectrum of the criticism is important because even if we say we're going to reallocate some of these resources and focus to our own home, what is the plan at home? Because if the plan is anything like we're going to let in another 15 million foreign invaders, that's not an America's interest either. And I am almost certain because I hear them. I'm in Minneapolis where they had the anti-ice protests. They said there's no such thing as illegal on stolen land. This is a fundamental pillar of the Democrat platform. So it's not like if we weren't in Israel or in the Middle East dealing with this war, then our priorities would be rightly ordered under Democrat rule either. We saw that under bite. So I'm just not I'm not buying the, you know, it's just a, it's a scam for them to even don't even bring up the war. They were all okay with dumping trillions of dollars into Ukraine. None of them had a problem with dumping as much money as they possibly could, could find in their black, backslush funds into Ukraine. You got biolabs popping up there in Ukraine. They didn't mind funding them. They didn't mind funding of Fauci's projects with the biolabs and whatever gain of function research. So these people who criticized President Trump, they're only doing it opportunistically because there's a fracture in on the conservative side about what our priorities should be.

Stephen A. Smith: Isaiah, I saw your facial expression, one to respond to some of the things that he said, particularly when he brought up immigration and obviously when he brought up the war, your response.

Isaiah Martin: You know, Stephen, I'm, I'm really to be honest with you fascinated that I just heard us United States Senate candidates say that it was a scam that people in this country are rightly concerned with inflation. The fact that Trump went and put these inflationary tariffs in place, that effectively put brought base tariffs on everything that comes to this country did raise prices. The fact that Trump went and got rid of ACA subsidies had a direct increase to health care premiums, which is led to a 26 percent increase in health care premiums across this country, particularly for those in Minnesota. So Roy's going to talk about the conspiracies there is all he wants, but people can look at direct actions of the Trump administration to see how it has raised their prices. And when you ignore your own intelligence, you ignore Tulsi Gabbard, you ignore Joe Kent, you ignore Richard Blumenthal, a Republican and independent and a Democrat, all three that said that there was no immediate threat to United States when it came to Iran and you ignore that and you go and you launch a war despite your own national intelligence and you raise people's prices as a result. That's someone that does not have the leadership and frankly the IQ necessary to go forward and actually deliver for the people of this country. And the fact that Roy's cannot get on this platform and call that out is absolutely a disgrace in my opinion.

Stephen A. Smith: Roy, Roy's your response.

Royce White: Well, I mean, there's so much wrong with that. Where do I start? But to answer the first last and work my way back, I did call it out. I just said that I'm not in favor of the war. And I think the America first movement has the right perspective on our foreign policy. Again, the contradiction is that the Democrats have any difference of opinion fundamentally on foreign policy. And I gave you the Ukraine war as an example, a very recent example, mind you, of the exact same interpretation of foreign policy. So your criticism of President Trump as it pertains to foreign policy is without merit by your own conventional and traditional Democrat platform politicians. Furthermore, I never said that inflation shouldn't be a concern for the American people. What I'm pointing out is the contradiction for Americans who favor themselves Democrat or critical of the president who say that they're worried about cost and what our government spends money on or allocates resources to. They're perfectly okay with giving credit cards and free health care education to illegal immigrants, which is a pillar of the political ideology. It's not, you know, it's not third or fifth rail. It's like the primary, it's like the driving sentiment of the Democrat party platform is we will allow unfettered, unlimited illegal immigrants to come into this country. And we will fund it with your tax money. So how can you talk about the use of tax money when you're given unlimited money to illegal foreign invaders?

Stephen A. Smith: I say, I'll let you chime in and answer that question, but I'll do so by asking this and then let you go wherever you want to go with it, all right? Which political party in your estimation is somewhat rhetorical? I know this from both of you, but I'm going to ask it anyway. Which political party do you believe has done more damage to working class Americans over the last 20 years and more importantly, what's your strongest evidence to prove your point and answer in that question?

Isaiah Martin: The Republican party, the Republican party. I mean, you know, if you want to go back to the previous answer for just a second, I just want to make sure that it was clear. Roy said not address the fact that there was a broad based tariffs that Donald Trump went and put that led to an increase in inflation for everybody across this country. He did not address the ACA subsidies that had a direct increase of 26% for healthcare premiums. He did not do that because ultimately those are direct actions from the president that has led to a price increases. When it comes to over the last few years, when it comes to who has had the biggest problems, I guess, for working class Americans is very clear. You can look at the job numbers, you know, up until recently, I think 50 of the last 51 million private sector jobs have created under Democratic presidents. You can see, for example, the unemployment rates much lower under Democratic presidents. You can see, for example, the S&P 500 performs better under Democratic presidents. You can see the rate of inflation generally performs better under Democratic presidents. So ultimately, you know, if you want to talk about the national debt, the Republicans are the ones that spend like children with their mom's credit cards and toys or us whenever they get in charge. They are responsible. Trump himself is responsible for more than 25% of the national debt, which ultimately you want to talk about a long-term problem. That is what is going to increase interest payments in the federal budget for years to come. And ultimately it's going to be less money that we can use to invest in things like universal healthcare, universal child care, those things. It's a Republican party that consistently votes against working conditions that have consistently voted against raising the minimum wage. I happen to believe that the minimum wage should be indexed with inflation and should go up with the cost of living. The Republicans do not support that idea. The Republicans were against the tax incentives that were used to create millions of jobs of the previous four years when Biden was in office and led to record lows when it comes to unemployment. It's a Republican party that consistently uses our tax dollars to give tax cuts to the richest people on earth. While we see that when they get those things, they invest less to create jobs in America, they invest less to create new manufacturing facilities in America, and they invest less in the American worker, and that's a problem for the people of this country.

Stephen A. Smith: Well, wouldn't people have an argument when they say that Biden spent more money than Trump? Wouldn't people have an argument when they point to letting illegal immigrants into the country and willing to spend money on them, particularly at the expense of some American citizens? There would be no argument in their favor in regards to that idea?

Isaiah Martin: Absolutely not whatsoever, because if you look at, for example, the Trump administration in 2025 and in 2026, it's spending more money than what the Biden administration spent prior to that. If you look at for the Committee for Responsible Budget Report, it literally shows $8.4 trillion was added to the national debt under, was approved by Trump to the national debt. The first time he was in office, you compare that to Biden, he was about $4.8 trillion. And if you want to be even more fair to Trump, you can then take out COVID-related spending, because that was something that affected both Biden and Trump. That number is about $4.3 trillion under Donald Trump, compared to about $2.2 trillion under Joe Biden. The math doesn't just add up. There are Republicans, are the ones that are the responsible for that.

Stephen A. Smith: Just for clarity purposes, before I go back to Roy, you're saying that I know about 2526, got that, but in Trump's first administration, you're saying that the Biden administration spent less than Trump's first administration? I'm just asking.

Isaiah Martin: That's it. I'm asking. Yeah, they approved left. So the way you got to look at it, right, is who goes and approved debt. I'll give you a perfect example. So when Trump was in office the first time, he wouldn't sign the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, which was there for the entirety of the time that Biden was in office, that was adding to the deficit under Biden, but he was not responsible for approving that legislation. So what you have to do is you have to tag it, and that's why there's a Committee called the Committee for Responsible Budget, which is both Republicans, Independents, and Democrats come together, and look at legislation by legislation, executive order by executive order, budget by budget, to determine how much national debt is being added by each specific president. And when you do that is very clear, the Republicans added double on both occasions. Royce?

Royce White: I just think it's absolutely ridiculous. I mean, these talking points are, you know, they're dishonest, but they're uninteresting to me. There are no more party lines. And I mean, of course, I'm on the right side of the aisle, per se, but the real scam is to pit black and white people in this country against each other so they can make off with the green. And that's the uniparty. And the point that I'll make about our economy, and I want to say this, I was thinking about it earlier, even the term affordability has become a MacGuffin. You know what a MacGuffin is, Stephen? I do not. A MacGuffin is a literary device used to drive the story forward, but it's not really a part of the plot. It's multi-falken. The movie's not really about a falcon, okay? Affordability is this, you know, term that's thrown back and forth as a political football and strategically weaponized in certain terms, or certain parts of certain terms, to get everybody all hyped up about the economy when the truth is the underlying pillar of the economy is death and debt. And the modern monetary theory that informs our monetary policy and the radical inflation or printing of money goes back to an institution that transcends the two political parties. And that is what the uniparty in this country has tried to preserve the devaluation of the dollar, the inflation of money, the crushing of the working class. And there's only one political party that's even thrown the red flag on the whole deal. And in fact, if I go further, it's the Republicans from within the Republican Party that have done just like Isaiah has said, that have fought candidates like me who are genuine dead hops. But there is that part of the Republican Party, or at least I represent that part of the Republican Party that says, the working class has been getting crushed as the inception of the Federal Reserve in 1913. And the devaluation, the devaluing of our dollar and our citizenship go hand in hand. And that philosophy is a post-World War II post-industrial liberal philosophy, liberal philosophy. The modern monetary theory that informs that we can print as much money as we want regardless of our domestic production or anything else is a liberal idea that Republicans who are soft on debt and economics fall victim to out of political viability. You have to be electable. In order to be electable, and Isaiah mentioned, you know, the growth of unemployment or unemployment is, yeah, you're giving a lot of jobs to people in the government. Republicans, fundamental philosophy is self-governance, the greatest expansion, you put your hands up, but the greatest expansion of the new jobs came from the government. We don't believe in the expansion. It's crazy to me that Democrats like AOS being Ilhan Omar, Democrats like AOS being Ilhan Omar say, the whole system is guilty in white supremacists. But their fundamental philosophy is to keep giving more power to the federal government as it expands in the name of new jobs. It's so contradictory. It's laughable. Only a person with a, you know, a sub-100 IQ would even go for that kind of thing. But we've taught a lot of people in this country to be radical materialists. And that's what I'll say finally, Stephen A. When I say affordabilities of Mugofan, we have a death and death culture in America and around the world and our mentality about the economy, our mentality about what is affordable and what isn't is greatly geared towards radical materialism. And so our perception of what we need to live, what we need to be prosperous, what we need to have a great quality of life, has been skewed intentionally by the internet. You don't need, you know, a million dollars to live great. You don't need to be able to go to Mickey Nose in Greece and take pictures on Instagram for people you don't even really like or know. Right. You need to be able to take care of a family and the Democrats have made it almost impossible to do that because they don't believe in the private ownership of business. They believe in the complete consolidation of government, government run business or the merger of government incorporation, which is by definition fascist.

Stephen A. Smith: I say, go ahead, because I know I was going to chime in, but I know you look like you got a lot to say. Go ahead, man.

Isaiah Martin: And Royce, I mean, look, facts don't care about your feelings, bro. I mean, and I say that with all due respect, which we get out of these things, you can just go and look at the facts itself, inflation is under Donald Trump. You can look at unemployment is up under Donald Trump. And that's why exactly why I talked about private sector spending to build new manufacturing facilities, which is a number to go and look to see who is building to hire more American workers. And that number has decreased under Donald Trump, so it's like, let's look at, for example, if you look at when Trump was president for first time, right, this man literally had a reduction in the amount of spending up to build these new manufacturers in America. Despite the fact that he said that was the whole purpose of his taxes and jobs act. You put Joe Biden in there. And he goes forward and passes the infrastructure bill, the chips act, you did so many other things that created these target instances for private investment, which led to a three times increase in those new manufacturer facilities that people have bought. I mean, so you don't really know what you're talking about here, Royce, respectfully. And I just think that when you talk in these talking points that are not rooted in facts, it leads to really dangerous outcomes.

Stephen A. Smith: Here's my problem. Here's it. Here's it. Hold on, Royce. As somebody in the middle who is completely ignorant compared to the both of you, let me put that out on front street right now. I don't know what y'all know, okay, but I like being a conduit for discussion. I'm trying to figure out how can an accord ever be reached? Let's say hypothetically speaking, even though I don't think it's that much hypothetical considering what we're witnessing in America today, that you've got people on both sides of the aisle who feel directly the way both of you feel. How can an accord ever be reached or some level of, I don't know, I don't know the word for it. You're just wondering whether or not that could ever get to a point where folks can reach and understand like, well, you know what, we agree, but we're going to have to agree to disagree as opposed to both sides saying, y'all facts are wrong because now you're forcing two sides to pick one side or the other because now there's willing to acknowledge there's any level of credibility with the other saying, how do we, how do we, how do we come to an accord in that regard? I'll start with you, Royce.

Royce White: Oh, there's no accord. We're well past the accord. These people just lie. Like for example, I brought up the illegal immigrant situation. He hasn't addressed it one time since he's, he's talked, you know, since he's spoken. He refused to address that the Joe Biden administration and the Democrats as a party, as a political movement believe in and support can don't let in 20 to, you know, 15 million foreign invaders, he won't even address it. And that's not by accident, it's on purpose. This country cannot be the only country in the world without a border, okay? We should not let unlimited amounts of people come into this country and it does have an effect on our culture, on our communities and the economy. But that's not even the real issue. And what I said about the economy is 100% accurate. He's talking about President Trump. I'm talking about how the system works, which is why after George Floyd died, I led people to the Federal Reserve because I wanted to educate them on how monetary policy actually works, not to point all of their anger and animosity at police, which are government workers, by the way, working class people who bear a lot of the same economic burden that many of the people who protested them bear. But how does the money actually flow? How does it work? That's not even the real issue. But when I say there's no accord to have, these people believe in cutting off little boys' penises, mutilating children, giving them hormone blockers. It's a pillar of their platform, they're not shy about it. Minneapolis is now the transgender capital. You're talking about people who are under 13, 12, 11 years old being influenced into something that is completely unjustifiable by any medical standard, any medical standard worth itself that hasn't been captured by the same academic philosophy, but certainly by any historical standard. The two universal standards for having a country, you have a border that you control and you do not normalize cutting off your son's penises or mutilating them through hormone blockers and medicine. So there is no accord with these people. They're unmoored from reality and they want to talk, you know, they talk fast, they bring a bunch of buzzwords and things like that to distract you from the issues. The reason they don't like me is because I'll bring you right back to the root issue. You let in 15 million foreign invaders and you believe in cutting off little boys' penises, we should never give these people the government back under any circumstances. So there's certainly not an accord.

mixed voices: Isaiah?

Isaiah Martin: You know, this is really interesting. You know, Roy's not at any point wanted to address anything when it comes to the economy. And I understand that you might not necessarily have anything when it comes to that. So it's not really surprising. But ultimately, Stephen A, I do think that to get back to the root of your question about how we can come to an accord, I think that it's just by using common sense. And I think that one of the things that you do very well is that you go and you kind of cut through a lot of the smoke and you kind of stick to the facts. And I think that that's really what we need more of. And once again, when you have a Republican and independent and a Democrat coming together to say that there was no immediate threats to the United States and Trump watches the war anyway, I would say that's a lack of common sense, especially Stephen A, because you know how difficult it is in Washington for people of all sides of the political spectrum to come together to agree on anything. I would say the same thing when it comes to this absolute waste of our tax dollars that's going on in our government right now, which I'm spending unlimited sums of money. People said that the tariffs, the broad based tariffs were completely ridiculous, but it did it anyway. The committee for a responsible budget, Republican independent and a Democrat, all are on this committee and they've come together and they've set these things. So I think that ultimately we've got to be able to operate off of a set of facts. But Royce did bring up the border, so I think this is a really good time to go talk about it. I don't support open borders. I've never supported open borders. I'm somebody who's visited the border multiple times to hope Royce that you've done the same. I've talked to multiple border patrol agents and I know that ultimately in order for us to go have a strong border, we've got to give border patrol the resources that they need. I fully support doing that. Now I say that then you then have to determine what you're going to do for the people that are here that are undocumented. I happen to believe that if every single person that is illegal and they haven't committed a crime here or elsewhere and they agree to pay every single tax state, federal and local and they agree to pay an additional tax of 7% for 7 years and they do that. That's something that we'll then be able to give American citizenship to. It'll create billions of dollars for us right here for the tax fair that we can use to cut taxes for Americans and ensure that we can actually go and put trades back in schools for our young people. That is something that is an America first policy that is vastly better than the hundreds of billions of dollars that Trump is in line to spend to go and do this mass deportation program which ultimately hasn't yielded anything for us anyway.

Stephen A. Smith: Royce, I couldn't hear what you were saying while he was talking. Go ahead.

Royce White: Of course he believes that.

Stephen A. Smith: He believes what?

Royce White: Of course he believes we should tax these people and find these people and let them stay in our country. It's a tax revenue. It's a bad for tax revenue. For the expansion of the IRS and the Federal Federal go further Spanish. It's dirty. I got taxes to cut taxs and to put trades back into schools when Islam went into schools. When has the when has the federal government ever remained? When was was the last time the federal government expanded in the tax rate?

Isaiah Martin: I suppose the Trade and be sure.

Royce White: When was the last time the federal government expanded in the tax rate went down? When was the last time the federal government expanded in the tax rate went down? You're doing a lot of you do a lot of dreams shaking like a larger one in the summer right now. I'm just asking when was the last time the federal government expanded in the tax rate went down Royce. We're talking when it was the last time

Stephen A. Smith: the federal government expanded. This is what I'm talking about. Let him answer. Go ahead. I said no way. Wait. I didn't answer. Mark. Wait. I mean, well, go ahead. I'm just saying but you have the same question of five tops. That's all I'm saying. He's asking. Go ahead. Let's go back to the original point. The original point. You know what I'm addressing. The original. I've already addressed the economy at a fundamental level. We have a death. We have a death and death culture that we've accepted because there are benefits for everybody across the aisle. Modern monetary theory, which is a progressive political and economic philosophy is a debt trap for all working class citizens across the world.

Royce White: I'm going to talk about the border right now. Of course you would say that we should tax and find these people because it's a passive aggressive way for the Democrats to get the goal that they had, which was to import unlimited unfettered illegal immigrants. Now, yeah, I don't support a legal immigration. No, you do because you want to let them stay. I don't. I don't support a legal immigration. I said he said you do because you want them to stay. You're not willing to find them and deport them. That's what he's saying.

Isaiah Martin: Because this is what I'm saying. What's happening right now, I'm really spending what Spain is spending on their military to go and deport only 5% of violent convicted criminals to me. I think that is a lack of common sense. What I said needs to happen is that those people that are here that are undocumented. Excuse me, Royce.

Stephen A. Smith: Let me say this real quick. Neither one of y'all getting cut off. So just wanted to talk because I ain't editing any of this. You trust me. The state television will get cut off in 8 minutes. So you ain't got to interrupt one another is airing all again. Go ahead. I said and come back to you, Royce.

Isaiah Martin: What I'm saying is that we have to determine as a country, what do we want to do with our tax dollars. Royce might believe in spending hundreds of billions of dollars, particularly trillions of dollars on this wasteful mass deportation program. I say that for those people that are here that are undocumented. This is an opportunity for them to have an earned pathway to citizenship that will create billions of dollars for us that we can use to put trades back in schools for our young people. We have a big problem in America where a lot of children are told that they have to go to college in order to be successful. And while that might be the case for some, if for many people in America, I happen to believe that we should create another pathway. I think that we have gotten away from trades back in schools for so many people across this country. And if this is an avenue to fund an America first policy, which is to teach our young people a trade. If they do not want to go to college, I do not understand how someone like Royce can get on here and be against that. To me, I think that's an America last.

Royce White: Royce. Royce, Royce. Royce. Royce. Royce. Royce. Royce. Royce. Royce. First of all, I'm not against that. I think trades are great. You do this thing where you try and conflate like three different issues into into one point. And then you, you know, the bottom line is your contradiction yourself. And this is what they do, the Democrats try and bait and switch you by using Spain's military spending as a juxtaposition to our deportations. First of all, Spain's privilege, and it is a privilege granted to them by America, and how much they do or don't spend on their military is because NATO subsidizes Spain's military defense, which is subsidized by America. We subsidize the entire European Union's defense to a substantial margin and increase, which is why a lot of America firsters wanted us out of NATO, which Democrats defend vehemently. They defend NATO. Of course, yeah, absolutely.

Isaiah Martin: How does NATO work, Royce?

Royce White: Right now it works that it's breaking the American people's back, a working class of a bunch of unions. Of course, they're given their, they're given their continent and their country's a way to foreign invaders, the same way Democrats want to do here.

Isaiah Martin: Can you point to me, can you point to me where? See how it works. I see how it works. It has a line item from NATO and Spain's defense. Where is it in the country?

Royce White: Are you saying that the American taxpayers do not have a name? I asked you a question. I'm asking you.

mixed voices: I asked you a question.

Royce White: Why don't you ask me? Why don't you ask each other this question? You're not even going out from the same reality. If you don't, if you don't accept that America subsidizes NATO, then you're not even dealing in reality. How does NATO work? You don't, I don't think you understand. There's America's ties NATO. What does that mean? Does America put in the lion's share of the funding for NATO? You think there's a lot more questions.

Stephen A. Smith: I say, I say, I say, I say, that is a direct question. Does America put in a lion's share of the NATO? That is a direct question. No.

Isaiah Martin: Because I don't think that Royce understands how NATO works. All right, we'll tell us. NATO. NATO means that every country has their direct investment that they spend on their own military for their own defense. The 2% target for defense spending that these countries have. It's not like America is paying that. That's saying that you want the United Kingdom. You want France. You want our NATO allies to go and spend that on their own defense. Royce, you seem to believe that there is a line item in the United States budget for Spain's defense or for France's defense. And if you believe that, then Royce, why don't you go and show me where in the federal budget this is instead of spouting conspiracy theories?

Royce White: I didn't say that. I didn't say that. I said that we are the lion's share majority of subsidization for NATO. We give up, we give the most out of any of the other countries. They don't carry their weight and they don't carry their weight to a degree where if they need to go to war. With an enemy on their border, such as Russia, they have to call us to help them to do it, which is exactly why we're still in a war in Ukraine now. Because NATO couldn't fight Russia without America's help. So we do put in the money that we do put in the money. I have an NATO. Okay. Exactly right sir. That is exactly right.

Isaiah Martin: But what is your point?

Royce White: So why is the whole entire, why is the entire European Union in America by NATO decree going to the aid of Ukraine to the detriment and debt of our own country?

Isaiah Martin: Do you know what the Budapest Memorandum was? Yes, I do.

Royce White: What is the risk? The point is, this is what the, you know what it is. My question. Wait, you didn't answer my question.

Isaiah Martin: Tell me what it is, Royce. Wait a second. I think this is very important. If we're going to talk about you. You didn't answer my question. Can you just, why? Why? What is the Budapest Memorandum? You're United States Senate candidate, Royce. Why can't you just give me this answer? This is what they do.

Royce White: When I, when I, when I do both, when I do both, one of their answers then he goes to this random, this random question about, and well, you're doing answer this one. See this one? See this one? This is how you, wait a second. Wait a second. What? I'm answer the question, Steven.

mixed voices: This is what people think they want to answer.

Royce White: But the reason why you don't like me is because I don't let, I don't let people do that. That, that, that's corny. What you're doing is corny. Every time I debunk one answer, you jump to another lily pad. That's what you're doing. So the bottom line is, the bottom line is, the bottom line is, the bottom line is, the bottom line is, the bottom line is. Let's finish this one and then I'll come back to you.

Stephen A. Smith: I was there. Go ahead, Royce.

Royce White: Finish it, Royce.

Stephen A. Smith: No.

Royce White: Even furthermore, we got way off on the Spain and NATO. The bottom line is this. Spain's military spending should not even be brought up in conjunction with our effort to deport illegal foreign invaders. Even the idea is, even the idea is an internationalist sort of globalist philosophy. I don't give a shit what Spain spends on their military. We're going to deport every single foreign invader that Joe Biden led into this.

Stephen A. Smith: What is that russia? Is that rationed? Oh, Royce. Absolutely. Can you really deport? Can you really locate 15 million immigrants and deport 15 million immigrants in this country? You really think that could happen?

mixed voices: We better. But, but hold up. Hold up. Wait a second. You better. We better find ways. We just, we just went this way.

Royce White: Wait, wait. Wait a second. Stephen A. We're trying to do it. We're trying to deport every foreign invader. These democrats are proto-~!! They're proto communists, CCP, you know, fans, they love China. They love how many roads they can build. They love how affordable it is to live China.

Stephen A. Smith: China. China and Russia would do a lot of things in the United States wouldn't do.

Royce White: We are going with China. Which way do you speak? We are China. China. I got a little response. I know. But China, deport every foreign invader what happens when you cross the border illegally in China, Stephen A?

Isaiah Martin: I mean, come on, Stephen.

Royce White: I would say. We're up for it.

Stephen A. Smith: We're going off subject. I got you. I got you. Go ahead. I say, oh, that's not all of subject. No, no, no, it is. It is. It is because I'm only

Royce White: talking about a national moral enemy. And it doesn't, and it's not relevant. What would have what what the standard is, what the what the what the universal standard is of how you deal with illegal foreign invaders from one country to another, there

Stephen A. Smith: are not. I'm saying, I'm saying your point is made without me having to get into China and Russia. That's all I'm trying to say. Well, go ahead. What I'm saying specifically is if you

Royce White: cross the border illegally in China, they don't take the time to pleasantly to port you back to your order, but this is not them. We're not them. Wait a second. Wait a second. We are in a way.

Isaiah Martin: No, we're not. He's like, he's like, he's right now. I had a

Royce White: couple of other issues. I had a couple of other issues I want to get you on the side of here. But go ahead, go ahead, go ahead, even if there is a way to second, wait a second. When Russia crossed over into Ukraine and invaded Ukraine, we used an escalatory ladder to determine the action, the military action we should take to Russia based on their existential threat to our country. And a lot of Democrats argued for that. They said, we can't let Russia invade Ukraine because they'll roll across Europe and some Democrats even advocated that we use short range tactical notes to push Russia back. Now we get to a conversation about China and their deportation policies and all of a sudden, it's not equal. It's not, it's not equitable to analyze across the two countries. We're in a we're in an asymmetrical war with a national war of enemy. And in China, they don't pleasantly deport people back to their origins, countries. And they certainly don't assimilate them and give them free credit cards and health care education. We shoot them in the back of the head, Stephen A is what they do in China. Isaiah, go ahead. We're not going to do that. We want to

Stephen A. Smith: deport them. Isaiah, go ahead. I mean, I got a couple more questions for I let you get on out of here. I just didn't want to rob you up to today. You're

mixed voices: good. Yeah. I mean, you know, no, no, no, I want to say what I'm saying is that, you know, I think you're key. I think

Isaiah Martin: who came a larger one would be proud of this pivot because again, your dream. Let me move on. Let me move on. God, guys, guys, I just want to dress this even at once. Okay, I don't want to be aggressive. I'm talking about these. Go ahead. Look, all I'm saying is this, we were talking about you create and why NATO countries were defending you create. And he thought that was a gotcha. That's why I asked him, what is the Budapest memorandum? He cannot tell you. That's why he's trying to pivot to China and all those things. It's called gish galloping. So I just want to ask just point blank directly, Royce, what is the Budapest memorandum? Because I think that if you answer that, you will then have the answer to all of your questions. Can I just get an answer from that? No,

Royce White: it's not no, because what you're doing is you're trying to

Isaiah Martin: forward the international. You're trying to report an international, doesn't even know what the Budapest memorandum is.

Royce White: I know what it is. I don't regard it as. Then tell me, explain it. I don't regard it as legitimate. And I don't regard a lot of these Royce. I don't regard a lot of these international treaties. I don't, I don't, I'm telling you my answer. You don't get the thing about me is you can't make me answer it. For my viewers, for my viewers, I got something more

Stephen A. Smith: important than than Ukraine and Russia or the Rubens memorandum. I got something more important to deal with. I

Royce White: wanted to get, and this is an overview. Can I answer one last time, Stephen A? Go ahead. I don't regard some of these international treaties and agreements as legitimate. They are, they are relic. They're in many cases, they are relics of a globalist foreign policy, the same foreign policy that informs that we have to go defend a country or world away instead of defending our own borders and, and, and, and making sure our own people are prospering. So the Budapest memorandum is not something I'm going to go into the details about

Stephen A. Smith: because I don't regard it as legitimate. Got it. Let me move on because I want to get to the criminal justice system that exists in this country because I think it's important in the light of the Carmelo and, or the Camelo Anthony verdict. And I wanted to ask this question overall, not so much specifically about that verdict. You can go where you want to go with it. But I want to ask a bigger question about young men in America today and a real crisis of purpose that we're talking about here. If so, who are what bears the most responsibility for the state of affairs that exist in this country when it comes to young men that don't get me started with it being specific about young black men? Answer that

Isaiah Martin: question. I'll start with you. I think that young men, young women and people in general want to see an economy that works better. And I think that there's been special interests on all sides of political spectrum that has been pushing against policies to make that happen. I think that there's been a lot of corporate ownership of homes in this country. There's stopped a lot of young men, young women from going out and buying homes. I think that that ultimately is a problem. And I think that they've been lobbying all sides of Congress to make sure that that can happen. I think that it's a problem that many people can't go out and get good jobs because of the fact that so many special interests are said using the money to go and do stock buybacks instead of actually building for America. So look, I think that there's a lot of big economic social problems that's going on right now. But I would say the biggest fault of that is money in politics because that is paralyzed a lot of action on the big things that many people

Stephen A. Smith: care about in this country. Royce is condensed as a thing that you can be. Go ahead and answer that question yourself.

Royce White: Hard to do it, but I will say this. This is where this is where the secular human secular humanist philosophy on the left just goes completely off the rails. And when I said early to tie back to my answer about the economics earlier, it was a much deeper answer about our culture. When I said radical materialism, this is what I mean. And this is a, this is a, this is a hallmark of the Marxist philosophy to reduce the human existence down to price, to make everything about price affordability, the cost of things. While those are important things, and I already said, the three card monty is to pit black people against white people or Republicans against Democrats or whatever, men against women to make off with the money of an ever expanding federal government, which is true, poverty does not give people the excuse to do heinous and terrible immoral things. And the fact that we continue to forward that idea across the journal House of History is a sign of our own decadent culture. You can be poor and still make sound decisions. The Democrats, for the most part, accept this idea that poverty is, is, you know, going to be a net result of of debauchery immorality, crime, violence, chaos, self-destruction. Nothing could be, there's nothing remotely appropriate about that. There's nothing even vaguely appropriate about that idea. People should be able to both be poor or be, you know, in a position that's not their, you know, their, their most ideal economic situation and, and be good people and, and follow the morals and ethics of a given community, or in this case, a nation. And to tell young black men specifically, anything else like, well, if you're born in a poverty, of course, you're going to go in and rob a corner store, of course, you're going to be angry. So you stab a kid in the chest that'll attract me is absolutely insane, almost, almost, as insane as giving a pre-pubescent kid a hormone block. It's almost, as insane. For let y'all get on out of here, I'm

Stephen A. Smith: going to end by asking this question, both the all-around opposite sides of the aisle. If the other sides worldview wins over the next 10 years, what does America actually look like? Let's say, in 2036.

Isaiah Martin: Isaiah? Well, I think that you'll see a deepening inequality problem in America. I think you'll see the richest folks in America continue to get tax breaks. You'll see things like, for example, in the Stop the Bacon Act, something that they're pushing that's literally allowing for big ag to allow for these pigs to basically be disgusting meat that's just rolling around in America. You will see a deregulation of our food. You will see ultimately, I think, in America that allows for, like I said, the richest people in earth to get richer. I think personally, the way to do that, you got to get big money out of politics. I've really been a pig proponent of that because I think that's really what's driving a lot of the political divide in this country. It's big, special, and just putting people against each other. And I think that we have to get that under control. Royce? Well, I was just going to say, I just think that frankly, I think we can fix these problems. We can get better people in office. But by putting better people in

Stephen A. Smith: office, is that what you said? Yeah, I got you.

Royce White: Go ahead, Royce. Well, when you say Republicans or Democrats, who's in office, again, I don't regard the conventional framework of our political parties as accurate. I don't regard the current political landscape as Republican or Democrat, although I know people, you know, we find utility in that. And sure, we have two political parties. But right now, in my own party, I'm going to fight against the people who want unfettered, you know, increase of debt, who want to be in wars all over the world at all times, who even make a, you know, a sort of work around for a Dignidad Act where we're going to assimilate all these foreign invaders. And I think if we continue on the path that we're we're on now under that uniparty rule of the status quo, that is completely beholden to special interests and lobby money. We always talk about moderates and people who can agree and shake hands across the aisle. The biggest shaking of hands across the aisle has been the special interests and lobby money. But then they tell you those are the only people that are electable. I mean, it's, you know, they they talk out of both sides of their mouth. And a lot of those people are Democrats are at least to Democrat media. I think we have to have a radical radical change and shift even further to the right than what President Trump is willing to do. And I think we can and we should at least set the aim to deport all the illegal foreign invaders that came in under Joe Biden to start. And we can do that. And we should know where they are because we gave them all credit cards and cell phones or we gave a lot of them. I think there was estimated like two million didn't take the cash. You got to wonder what they're up to that they passed on the cash. But at least 13 million the conservative estimate 13 million got cell phones and credit cards. We know exactly where these people are. The question is, do we like the convenience of low-cost labor? And what's going to happen if we allow, if we continue, look, it just blows my mind what's happened to this country about people, especially black peoples, perception of citizenship, the value of their citizenship, and the sovereignty of their borders and their country, especially a country that we help build and that we currently help keep keep keep afloat. The fact that we've just given away the idea of national pride, national honor, having a country, having sovereign borders, valuing our dollar and demanding that our politicians do the same

Stephen A. Smith: is it should be a non-starter. I'm going to say this and y'all can comment about it or I can end it this way. I think the thing that really really bothers me as a guy, respecting both of y'all, knowing what y'all know and proud to have y'all on this show and you're always welcome back both y'all just so y'all know is that I keep telling folks out in the streets of America. Look, dammit, you can't have everything. You can't have everything. Everybody's got to do it out something or just notion that you get to get everything you want the way you want how you want it. It's not realistic and Royce, when you say that and you explain it but you're talking about there is no accord, that's that's scary because it's like wait a minute, well if there is no accord then every one side's got to have their way. Which ever side of the aisle it is because the left is certainly acted that way to some people as they are on the left have acted that way. And I'm like, where does that get us? Because that means you're going to have millions of Americans utterly disgusted and they ain't going to go for it and they're going to be determined of course chaos because they didn't get, you know, they they felt left out of the equation and didn't get what they want. How the hell does that help us move it forward? That's all I wanted to say. Everybody got to comment about it.

Isaiah Martin: Good. Let me just let me just let me says, you know, Steven, you know, I think one of the things that hopefully I think that you and Royce and we all can agree with is that there's a lot of big special interest money in politics and it does make a lot of political decisions. I totally think that hopefully hopefully we all can eventually come together to say that this has to come to it in. We have to demand that politicians on that are Republican, Democrat, independent, no matter what you are, that it has to get out. We've got to get big packs out of politics. We've got to put spending limits on elections because that is really the root, I think, of most of our political problems in America.

Royce White: Royce, I give you a minute. Oh, amen. I completely agree. I think we should put a nation-wide ban on packs and lobbies all together. In fact, it's a part of my political platform. So yeah, we agree completely on that. But to your point, Steven A about you can't get everything you want. I think it's a misrepresentation. At least what I'm saying is in your sports, your sports commentator and congratulations. The next just won. It was it was awesome to see them. Thank you. You can see them do that.

mixed voices: Thank you. Let's go back.

Royce White: But imagine, Steven A, if you started the game, you jump the ball up and the players could literally run wherever they wanted to on the court. I mean, back behind the benches, in the stands, and you know, it'd be like the Globetrotters. It wouldn't be the NBA, right? So you have to have a baseline of reality. And I think we're really having a fundamental argument in this country and politics about reality, not so much about the details, but about reality itself. And that's not something that you can easily negotiate, compromise, or just move past. And I go back to this, not as a distraction, but I really do mean. The the the trans thing is a canary in the co mine for reality. And if we can't agree on that baseline reality, like you can't cut a little boys penis off. And he'd become the other sex. If we can't agree on that, of course, we're not going to be able to agree on the tax rate or how many illegal aliens we should deport, because one side of the aisle has a philosophy of politics that has that baked into it. And the other side has something that the left regards as un, you know, unacceptable or nonstarter, which is obviously God, right? I mean, they say, if you believe in God, you believe in Jesus, it's a sky daddy, you know, it's a fairy tale. We don't regard that as a legitimate way to go about framing government or society. So we're at a fundamental impasse and I'm just

Stephen A. Smith: being realistic about that. I got it. Listen, man, I noticed much of Iran for all of us. Both of y'all will be in my ear. I'd listen to you because damn it, you got stuff to say and I appreciate that. Listen, you don't have to always agree, but at least y'all could have this kind of conversation and that's the kind of thing that I'm trying to create with this platform that I have available to me. Cats being willing to sit across from one another and have a conversation because Lord knows we need more than that. So Isaiah, Martin, Royce, White, thank y'all both for your time. I really, really appreciate it. And no, both of y'all got a home here anytime you need it. I'm here for you. I appreciate y'all, man. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. All right, you're right. I'm much, guys. Thank you. No doubt. That's it for this edition of Stray Shooter. We chose truly Stephen A. Getting on out of here. Remember, everyone's a night. Sirius XM, POTUS Radio, Channel 124. That's where you'll find me. Plus, you'll find me right here on my YouTube show, at least twice a week. Additionally, right here in the Stephen A. Smith Show YouTube, Stray Shooter, or with Stephen A. YouTube channel. So check it out. Talk to y'all next time. Royce, White, Isaiah, Martin, Rivernan discussion. Two brothers and got an idea what the hell is going on in this country. Know what the hell they're talking about? And I mean it when I say it, everybody's welcome as long as you've got substantive stuff to say that you believe is in the best interest of America instead of acting like you crazy. That's where I'm coming from. And that's where I'm going to continue to come from. Until next time, ladies and gentlemen, peace of love. Santa not Stephen A, peace.