“The future is unknown, so don’t conclude that all is dark – or that all is bright! It’s unknown, so as long as we’re breathing and functioning, we have a lot to do.””Governor Jerry Brown

In this extraordinary conversation, visionary, activist, and long-time politician, former Governor of California Jerry Brown gets right to the heart of the things that matter most. From truth seeking on an individual level (the importance of inquiring into the depths of our reality), to the challenge of our democracy (getting a consensus in a population that has no coherence), to the problem of leadership (now it’s all about winning, which works on the football field but not for international relations), the fear and greed that drive the arms race (we’re not talking about the arms issue, and to not talk about it is to be complicit), and the existential danger of nuclear war (as important as it is underreported), Jerry nails the essence of our most pressing issues.

Jerry’s deep concern about the existential threats we face today, such as nuclear war and climate change, is matched by his enthusiasm for life and excitement over the fact that the future is unknowable. “We have to turn,” he says, “and everyone can contribute to amplifying the turn.” We discover some of the key formative events that shaped Jerry’s keenly discerning character, so evident throughout his career and still today in his eighties, and why co-host Roger Walsh describes him as a “force of nature.” This conversation is thoroughly enjoyable, inspirational, eye opening, and disturbing too. “We are on the brink, but no one wants to hear it,” Jerry says. “How do you speak the truth in a way it can be heard?

Recorded August 7, 2025.

Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Heidi Mitchell

Topics & Time Stamps – Part 1

• Introducing former Governor of California, Jerry Brown (00:43)
• Jerry’s Jesuit background and the transformative process (02:29)
• What shaped Jerry’s orientation to life? Growing up in a more innocent, unambiguous time in San Francisco (04:10)
• Today’s chaos and confusion is what led to the presidency of Donald Trump (10:20)
• The challenge in a democracy is getting a consensus—right now the “We” in “We the People” doesn’t have coherence (14:44)
• Today the democratic ideal is up for grabs; it’s zero-sum—all about winning, and the payoff for scapegoating is very high (15:52)
• We need an enormous amount of resources to address our problems, but using tax dollars requires a public belief and commitment that is not there (17:41)
• The doomsday clock is ticking, the dangers are growing: nuclear, bio, climate, AI, satellites & weaponry (21:42)
• Planetary realism and the need to work together: shared vulnerability needs to give rise to shared interest (26:35)
• What can we do as individuals? Where you can be helpful and human and responsive, do that (32:05)
• We are in the power of forces that a) we don’t control and b) we can’t do anything about (35:50)
• We are on the brink, but no one wants to hear it: how do you speak the truth in a way it can be heard? (36:57)
• Sitting Zazen in the face of what’s happening (39:32)
• Jesuit slogan: Do what you’re doing (age quod agis) (42:20)

Topics & Timestamps — Part 2

• Waking up with enthusiasm, excitement, and inherent appreciation (01:06)
• What is Jerry engaged in right now? (03:34)
• Roger’s summary of the global issues facing us today (05:50)
• The nuclear danger is as important as it is underreported, and the key to proliferation is fear (07:17)
• The ICBM Caucus (11:38)
• Not talking about the arms issue is to be complicit (13:52)
• Sitting with the question, what can I do? (16:19)
• Social and political recognition of danger is so very important (18:12)
• We have to turn and everyone can contribute to amplifying the turn (19:01)
• The future is unknowable, so we do what we can (20:05)
• Living in inquiry, the quest for truth (22:44)
• Why was Jerry drawn to work for the good of the environment? (23:47)
• The Jesuit belief in eternal damnation (27:55)
• What you can derive from Zen (30:45)
• Becoming individuators on the developmental path (33:15)
• What does Jerry wish he’d known sooner? (34:49)
• There’s always more to be learned (37:29)

About the Deep Transformation series

We are clearly in a new era, facing world-threatening challenges and graced with barely conceivable opportunities. In this mind-boggling new world, we all face two crucial questions:

• First, the ever-present conundrum of how to best live fully, deeply, wisely, and well.
  Second, the new question unique to our times, how to best understand and heal our endangered world.
• Wouldn’t it be wonderful to hear responses to these questions from some of the great consciousness pioneers—the outstanding thinkers, sages, scientists, and activists—of our time? These are the people and conversations that Deep Transformation offers.

Deep Transformation: Self-Society-Spirit draws on diverse ideas from around the world. It goes beyond traditional positions and polarities—beyond left and right, material and spiritual—to seek syntheses of deep wisdom and practical know-how that integrate the best of all positions.

Click here to learn more about Deep Transformation!

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About Jerry Brown

Jerry Brown is a former four-term Governor of California, former Mayor of Oakland, former California Attorney General, and longtime public thinker whose career has been marked by political independence, environmental leadership, fiscal discipline, and a deep concern for humanity’s future. From his early years in a Jesuit seminary to his decades in public life, Brown has brought an unusually reflective and philosophical sensibility to questions of power, democracy, climate change, nuclear risk, and the moral responsibilities of leadership.

About Roger Walsh

Roger Walsh, M.D., Ph.D., has spent nearly a quarter century researching and practicing in the world's great spiritual traditions. His critically acclaimed book, Essential Spirituality, is a summary of that wisdom, outlining the seven spiritual practices common to the world's major religions.

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About John Dupuy

John Dupuy is co-founder and CEO of iAwake Technologies, a company that creates cutting-edge, high-tech brainwave entrainment soundtracks that support the healing of emotional/shadow issues, deepen meditation, mental focus, creativity, and flow states, and enhance a daily integral transformative practice. John has been working personally and professionally with brainwave entrainment technology since 2004, and travels internationally to teach and inspire on the subjects of Integral Transformative Practice and Integral Recovery®. John is also the author of Integral Recovery: A Revolutionary Approach to the Treatment of Alcoholism and Addiction (SUNY Press, 2013), winner of the 2013 USA Best Book Award, and co-host of the popular Journey of Integral Recovery podcast. John also hosts the online series Spiritual Tech Talks 2.0, in which he converses with leaders, pioneers, and inventors on the current wave of emerging spiritual technologies.