“The more we can make room for each other’s perspective…that’s how you go about solving the kind of political tribalization and polarization that is so prominent today.”Corey deVos

Corey deVos is at the heart and center of Integral Life, the organization that revolves around the work of Ken Wilber. Corey first became passionate about Integral Theory at the age of 19, and in this lively conversation, he is clearly every bit as passionate about the actuality and the promise of Integral today, nearly 30 years later. Here, Corey gives a terrifically lucid explanation of what the term Integral encompasses: a stage of psychological development, a description of Ken Wilber’s life’s work, and a comprehensive map that comes alive for people, guiding their way and making sense out of enormously complex issues. Corey also describes Integral as a gateway between two massive phases in human history — the “adolescent” phase of collective development now starting to fall behind us, and an integrated phase quite possibly ahead.

Corey infuses the complex topics under discussion — the Integral metatheory, social issues that never seem to get resolved, human evolution itself — with optimism and enthusiasm, clarity and light, a testament to his own embodiment of Integral consciousness. At Integral Life, Corey co-hosts The Ken Show (with Ken Wilber), applies Integral to social issues like racism, gun violence, and justice in his podcast series, and excels at finding creative ways of translating the complexities of Integral Theory into easy-to-understand nuggets of information. This conversation is a brilliant, beautiful illumination of the Integral vision, covering how Integral has evolved and describing what it can do for our future.

Recorded on November 10, 2022.

Topics & Timestamps: Part 1

• Introducing Corey deVos, Executive Producer of Integral Life, the organization that revolves around Ken Wilber and his work (00:57)
• The ordinary and the extraordinary about Integral: Corey gives a superb explanation of just what is meant by the term “Integral” (02:41)
• Global challenges now are so huge, complicated, and urgent, they are forcing developmental movement—a new evolution—and necessitating the kind of comprehensive solutions that Integral offers (07:14)
• How the spiral of development is now at war with itself—like a global auto-immune disease, we are attacking ourself; Integral can supply the “medicine” (08:27)
• What distinguishes the Integral stage from all the previous stages and how does Integral fit into history? (11:08)
• The fragmentation of knowledge and how Integral is able to hold it all in a meaningful framework (14:46)
• Integral is also a call to transform (18:39)
• Every new stage coming into being involves a revolution; Integral’s revolution is from the inside out rather than the outside in, and it demands we do our inner work (19:53)
• The problem with reductionism and how Integral holds our basic polarities: interior/exterior, subjective/objective, individual/collective, offering a way out of our conflicts (22:34)
• How can people start to get involved with the Integral project? (27:29)
• Corey’s catastrophic first spiritual experience and love at first read of Ken Wilber’s A Brief History of Everything (30:38)

Topics & Timestamps: Part 2

• In appreciation of Ken Wilber’s kindness and generosity (00:48)
• The Integral vision, the concept of “vision-logic,” and the geometry of consciousness (02:23)
• Corey’s creativity using mainstream movie clips to communicate the complexity of each Integral stage of development in a nutshell (05:18)
• How Corey applies Integral to the major social issues of our time (09:21)
• The Integral Justice Warrior series, co-hosted by Mark Fischler and Corey deVos (10:38)
• The Ken Show with Ken Wilber and Corey deVos (13:18)
• The Integral map’s four quadrants explained (14:47)
• The Integral heart is an empathetic heart (18:14)
• The 8 zones of racism: can we create a frame in which both a “woke” person and a traditional person can find themselves? (20:28)
• How can we talk about systemic racism (or any other issue) from different developmental perspectives and find common ground? (23:22)
• Stumbling our way towards Integral and finding out that the territory is actually real (26:21)
• The evolution of Integral, symbol of wholeness (32:47)
• How Corey came to be knocking on Ken’s door and his intention to create a way for people to become transformed by Integral yet not feel alone in this (34:41)

Topics & Timestamps: Part 3

• The early days of Integral after the end of its “dark ages” (01:50)
• What was Integral Naked exactly? (03:18)
• Robb Smith takes over the leadership of Integral Life (06:16)
• The early days conversations are as relevant today as when they were recorded (08:57)
• The evolution of Integral Life, what’s going on now: political sensemaking, intra personal development, live community practice groups, and much more (10:08)
• Corey’s development of trust and confidence doing the work: from instrument to symphony (15:50)
• Carrying on the flame that was ignited by Ken Wilber (20:30)
• The curse of Ken Wilber is being born ahead of his time (22:04)
• What is most exciting to Corey right now? Taking Integral ideas and expressing them artistically with woodwork (24:41)
• Where is Integral headed? As the framework is applied in the world, it’s going to start generating real impact (28:25)
• Integralists are growing up, cleaning up, and now is the time for a collective “showing up” (30:51)

Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos
Image created via MidJourney

About the Deep Transformation series

We are clearly in a new era, facing world-threatening challenges and graced with barely conceivable opportunities. In this mind-boggling new world, we all face two crucial questions:

• First, the ever-present conundrum of how to best live fully, deeply, wisely, and well.
  Second, the new question unique to our times, how to best understand and heal our endangered world.
• Wouldn’t it be wonderful to hear responses to these questions from some of the great consciousness pioneers—the outstanding thinkers, sages, scientists, and activists—of our time? These are the people and conversations that Deep Transformation offers.

Deep Transformation: Self-Society-Spirit draws on diverse ideas from around the world. It goes beyond traditional positions and polarities—beyond left and right, material and spiritual—to seek syntheses of deep wisdom and practical know-how that integrate the best of all positions.

Click here to learn more about Deep Transformation!

Previous Episodes of Deep Transformation

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The Edge of the Future: Education, Civilization, and the Metacrisis

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Educator, author, philosopher, and futurist Zachary Stein gives a startling account of the effects the digital age already has on education and where this is headed. Zak sees education in a deeply philosophical sense as fundamental to the sustainability of our civilization, with implications for each component of the metacrisis. Who will be driving the technology stack that actually leads to a viable civilization? Can we maintain our psychological sovereignty in a sea of digital propaganda and know the truth?

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Michael Murphy, author, co-founder of the world-famous Esalen Institute, and pioneer of the Human Potential Movement starting in the 60s, relates a wealth of intimate experience, knowledge, and wisdom covering his decades of living at the leading edge of transformative practice and the realization of human potential.

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James’ teachings take us deeply into states like gratitude and compassionate presence, to where we can focus our attention on how it feels to feel good somatically, thereby creating new neural pathways that strengthen awareness and aliveness. James has witnessed a lot of people learn to love themselves and turn their lives around as a result of this teaching.

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About Corey deVos

Corey W. deVos is Editor-in-Chief of Integral Life, as well as Managing Editor of KenWilber.com. He has worked for Integral Institute/Integal Life since Spring of 2003, and has been a student of integral theory and practice since 1996. Corey is also a professional woodworker, and many of his artworks can be found in his VisionLogix art gallery.

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About John Dupuy

John Dupuy is co-founder and CEO of iAwake Technologies, a company that creates cutting-edge, high-tech brainwave entrainment soundtracks that support the healing of emotional/shadow issues, deepen meditation, mental focus, creativity, and flow states, and enhance a daily integral transformative practice. John has been working personally and professionally with brainwave entrainment technology since 2004, and travels internationally to teach and inspire on the subjects of Integral Transformative Practice and Integral Recovery®. John is also the author of Integral Recovery: A Revolutionary Approach to the Treatment of Alcoholism and Addiction (SUNY Press, 2013), winner of the 2013 USA Best Book Award, and co-host of the popular Journey of Integral Recovery podcast. John also hosts the online series Spiritual Tech Talks 2.0, in which he converses with leaders, pioneers, and inventors on the current wave of emerging spiritual technologies.

About Roger Walsh

Roger Walsh, M.D., Ph.D., has spent nearly a quarter century researching and practicing in the world's great spiritual traditions. His critically acclaimed book, Essential Spirituality, is a summary of that wisdom, outlining the seven spiritual practices common to the world's major religions.

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