“An ignorant people can never remain a free people.”Thomas Jefferson

Constitutional Law expert and Ethics professor Mark Fischler joins Deep Transformation again, to help us make sense of what many see as the slide towards authoritarianism happening in the United States today. Mark’s vast knowledge of the law, the Constitution, and the Supreme Court, his deep comprehension of ethics and morality, his Integral understanding, and his profound contemplative awareness all make for an extraordinary exploration of what is going on in this country at levels we don’t often consider. Beginning with examples of events in 2025 that are representative of various facets of authoritarianism, Mark goes on to discuss how the very crassness of the current Administration is undermining democracy: “We need to demand civil, fact-based discussion from our leaders, but we’re all accepting it’s okay to act like toddlers and dehumanize each other.”

Mark cites some stunning figures illustrating the widespread ignorance of democratic processes and institutions among the populace in this country, and describes why a lack of civic understanding makes us susceptible to authoritarians coming in and taking over. He also acknowledges that progressives are at fault for marginalizing conservatives, and calls on us to recognize the honor and dignity of all people, regardless of their politics—this is part of the solution, he explains. Mark’s passionate caring, wanting the best for all people and all beings, is a current that flows throughout, grounding the discussion in a beautiful way, while also making for a heartbreaking contrast relative to the chilling events happening in the political arena now. Recorded December 4, 2025.

Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Heidi Mitchell

Topics & Timestamps — Part 1

• Introducing a frequent guest on Deep Transformation: Ethics, Law & Criminal Justice professor Mark Fischler, to help us make sense of our deteriorating democracy (00:43)
• The trajectory of Trump’s presidency: the devolution of democracy towards authoritarian government (01:51)
• John presents defining characteristics of fascism according to A. I. (04:01)
• How does Mark define authoritarianism? (07:24)
• Mark offers examples of 12 hallmarks of authoritarian government that happened in 2025, beginning with the stifling of dissent and speech (08:12)
• Statistics on how U.S. citizens feel our democracy is performing (16:51)
• What surprises Mark the most? The crassness & crudeness of the Trump Administration (18:15)
• The deterioration in the greater culture at large: who and what is responsible? (21:19)
• Deflecting our attention using whataboutism breeds cynicism & corrodes our democracy (24:45)
• We need to demand civil, fact-based discussion from our leaders, but we’re all accepting it’s okay to act like toddlers and dehumanize each other (30:00)
• Recognizing the humanity & inner dignity of everyone is part of the solution (31:16)
• Progressives on their side are at fault for marginalizing conservatives (33:38)
• The red meme mentality (Spiral Dynamics) that is taking place (39:24)
• Why pervasive civic ignorance in the U.S. is a very significant problem (41:57)

Topics & Timestamps — Part 2

• What the problem of pervasive civic ignorance signifies for our democracy (01:02)
• Our susceptibility to authoritarian leaders is not surprising considering our ignorance of civil responsibility (04:53)
• Future shock: people under stress regress psychologically, making it even easier for an authoritarian to take over (06:57)
• There is more than one reason for our pervasive civic ignorance  (09:08)
• Using A.I. to fact-check what we see and hear (10:37)
• Education: cognitive understanding in young people has plunged below lowest-level functioning thresholds (16:35)
• Among students, autism, ADHD, anxiety & depression diagnoses are through the roof (18:03)
• Because of people’s lack of achievement & lack of civic understanding, it makes sense that people are willing to let democracy go (19:40)
• Cultivating a quest for truth is part of the solution (22:48)
• A call to contemplative warriors to take up the fight for greater awareness that recognizes the good, the true, the beautiful—and the oneness of what is (25:35)
• Everybody has a partial piece of the truth (28:36)
• To understand is to forgive (32:30)
• The Supreme Court is asking, should we even take race into account? (35:22)
• What gives Mark hope? A lot of things! (39:51)

About the Deep Transformation series

We are clearly in a new era, facing world-threatening challenges and graced with barely conceivable opportunities. In this mind-boggling new world, we all face two crucial questions:

• First, the ever-present conundrum of how to best live fully, deeply, wisely, and well.
  Second, the new question unique to our times, how to best understand and heal our endangered world.
• Wouldn’t it be wonderful to hear responses to these questions from some of the great consciousness pioneers—the outstanding thinkers, sages, scientists, and activists—of our time? These are the people and conversations that Deep Transformation offers.

Deep Transformation: Self-Society-Spirit draws on diverse ideas from around the world. It goes beyond traditional positions and polarities—beyond left and right, material and spiritual—to seek syntheses of deep wisdom and practical know-how that integrate the best of all positions.

Click here to learn more about Deep Transformation!

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About Mark Fischler

Mark Fischler is a Professor of Criminal justice and current program coordinator for the criminal justice and criminology programs at Plymouth State University. Prior to joining the Plymouth State faculty, he practiced law, representing poor criminal defendants for the New Hampshire Public Defender’s Office. Mark has worked extensively with alternative theoretical models in law, constitutional law, and higher education, and has published on integral applications to teaching, being a lawyer, and legal theory. His focus in the classroom is ethics and criminal procedure, and is well respected for a teaching philosophy that emphasizes recognizing the humanity and dignity of each student. Professor Fischler was awarded the outstanding teaching award at his university in 2014. He currently offers a weekly Spiritual Inquiry class through Satya Yoga Studio.

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About John Dupuy

John Dupuy is co-founder and CEO of iAwake Technologies, a company that creates cutting-edge, high-tech brainwave entrainment soundtracks that support the healing of emotional/shadow issues, deepen meditation, mental focus, creativity, and flow states, and enhance a daily integral transformative practice. John has been working personally and professionally with brainwave entrainment technology since 2004, and travels internationally to teach and inspire on the subjects of Integral Transformative Practice and Integral Recovery®. John is also the author of Integral Recovery: A Revolutionary Approach to the Treatment of Alcoholism and Addiction (SUNY Press, 2013), winner of the 2013 USA Best Book Award, and co-host of the popular Journey of Integral Recovery podcast. John also hosts the online series Spiritual Tech Talks 2.0, in which he converses with leaders, pioneers, and inventors on the current wave of emerging spiritual technologies.

About Roger Walsh

Roger Walsh, M.D., Ph.D., has spent nearly a quarter century researching and practicing in the world's great spiritual traditions. His critically acclaimed book, Essential Spirituality, is a summary of that wisdom, outlining the seven spiritual practices common to the world's major religions.

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