Time isn’t a flat circle — it’s more like a winding spiral. We revisit the same inflection points — war, collapse, renewal, awakening — not because we’re trapped in eternal recurrence, but because we exist within a recursive spiral of development. Each turn in the spiral brings us back to similar challenges, but with new capacities, perspectives, and stakes.
Time isn’t just measured; it’s grown into. Time isn’t a fixed backdrop. It’s a developmental achievement. Infants begin in timelessness, then construct cyclical time (day/night), linear time (goals/futures), and eventually relative time (Einsteinian). Ultimately, advanced stages re-integrate timelessness — not by regressing, but by transcending and including earlier temporal modes.
Civilizational collapse isn’t random; it’s cyclical, and developmental. History isn’t a chaotic series of events. It’s patterned. Generational “blowups” (wars, revolutions, meta-crises) happen in ~100-year cycles and correspond to developmental limits in cultural structures (e.g., when capitalism outgrows its third-person frame).
We’re not just evolving — we’re accelerating. It once took 50,000 years to move from archaic to magic. Now, new developmental stages are emerging in decades. This compression disrupts traditional generational analysis and creates a world where vastly different levels coexist simultaneously.
You can be advanced and still dangerous. Late-stage development doesn’t automatically mean healthier behavior. A person can be construct-aware (5.0+) and still deeply narcissistic if early-stage wounds weren’t healed. Shadow travels up the spiral unless integrated.
In this illuminating conversation, Keith Martin-Smith is joined by Terri O’Fallon — co-founder of STAGES International and one of the most insightful developmental theorists alive today — to explore the hidden cycles shaping both personal growth and global history. As the world faces a convergence of meta-crises—from late-stage capitalism to climate collapse and runaway technology—Terri reveals how these upheavals mirror a deeper, evolutionary recursion within human consciousness itself.
Together, they trace the arc from timelessness (at birth) to the construction of linear and relative time, culminating in the boundless timelessness required at higher developmental stages. Alongside this journey, they chart the rapid acceleration of cultural evolution — from 50,000-year transitions to changes now unfolding within decades — and discuss the critical role of shadow, leadership, parenting, narcissism, and spiritual practice in navigating this evolutionary quickening.
Is capitalism the end of the story, or just another stage? Can AI ever touch the depths of timeless awareness? And what kind of leaders are needed to shepherd us into a post-crisis future? This wide-ranging dialogue blends rigor and heart, offering both a sobering look at our civilizational crossroads and a grounded faith in our capacity to grow through it.
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The polarity of Time and Timelessness reflects two interdependent ways of relating to existence — one through the flux of change, and the other through stillness and presence. Time (nunc fluens) is the unfolding of events, the river of becoming, in which memory, anticipation, and action take place. Timelessness (nunc stans) is the eternal present, the unmoving Now within which all experience arises. One is the realm of story, process, and evolution; the other is the dimension of presence, being, and ground. When dissociated, time becomes anxious striving and timelessness becomes disembodied dissociation. When integrated, they reveal a mode of consciousness in which the eternal expresses itself in every moment
Time is the dynamic, unfolding aspect of reality — the movement from past through present to future. It is the realm in which causality, change, evolution, and narrative identity take place. Time allows us to make sense of our lives, to plan, grow, and engage with others. It is the domain of doing, becoming, and achieving. This is the nunc fluens, or the “flowing now” — the ceaseless motion of experience through linear succession. But when overemphasized, we can become trapped in anxiety, regret, or endless striving. Time is indispensable for development, but needs to be held within a deeper awareness to avoid identification with transience.
Timelessness is the ever-present ground of Being — the still point at the heart of all movement, the Now that does not pass. In this state, awareness is not bound to the past or future, but rests in the fullness of the present. It is the contextless context in which all phenomena arise and dissolve. This is the nunc stans, or the “standing now” — the eternal present that underlies all appearances of change. Timelessness is not the opposite of time, but its luminous backdrop — the unchanging that holds all change. It is the domain of direct presence, pure witnessing, and formless consciousness.
As Wittgenstein wrote, “If we take eternity to mean not infinite temporal duration but timelessness, then eternal life belongs to those who live in the present.” This perspective invites us to recognize that eternity is not elsewhere — it is here, now, in the ungraspable depth of this very moment.
Integrated Polarity
Jean Gebser’s notion of the Ever-Present Origin represents the synthesis of timeless depth and temporal unfolding — a unitive consciousness in which the Absolute is not elsewhere, but immanent within every passing moment. In Wilber’s integral model, this integration corresponds with the nondual realization that arises when one transcends and includes both causal emptiness (formless timelessness) and manifest form (dynamic time). It is not about oscillating between awareness and action, or stillness and motion, but seeing all motion as stillness, all change as unchanging. It is the awareness that every moment of time arises within timeless awareness, and that every act of becoming is the dance of Being itself.
At the Turquoise altitude and beyond, this synthesis shows up as the effortless unity of structure and spontaneity, of relative and ultimate, of narrative and presence. The mystic no longer seeks to escape time for eternity, nor to collapse eternity into time — they live as the timeless expressing itself through time, radiantly, compassionately, and fully engaged.
Unintegrated Polarity
Attachment and Dissociation occur when we split time and timelessness into dualistic extremes. In Attachment, we cling to identity, history, progress, and outcome — seeking safety in the continuity of time. In Dissociation, we disconnect from time, body, emotion, or complexity — hiding in the illusion of already-arrived stillness. Together, they represent a divided consciousness: one part gripping the story, the other vanishing from it. Neither can hold the wholeness of true presence, which arises only when time is embraced from within timelessness.
Tips for Harmonizing
First, identify which pole is in your shadow:
If you’re compulsively doing, always chasing the next moment, or caught in the myth of linear self-improvement, you may be over-identified with Time.
If you tend to detach, avoid conflict, or rationalize your disengagement as “being present” or “already whole,” you may be over-identified with Timelessness.
If you lean too far toward Time, you may be striving, anxiously grasping at control, or clinging to your story. To harmonize:
Practice Presence as Ground: Return to nunc stans through daily stillness practices. Use breath awareness, body scanning, or open awareness meditation to rest in the Now that does not pass.
Interrupt Time-Mind: Notice when you’re running a mental storyline (past/future). Gently disidentify. Repeat: “This thought arises now. This is a moment in Being.”
Include rather than escape: Instead of trying to “fix” yourself in time, try inhabiting your experience more deeply. This opens a paradoxical spaciousness within time itself.
If you lean too far toward Timelessness, you may feel dissociated, disengaged, or spiritually superior in your detachment. To harmonize:
Re-enter the Story with Compassion: Use narrative journaling, voice dialogue, or somatic inquiry to re-embody your personal experience. Your ego is not an error; it’s an instrument of integration.
Engage Developmental Tension: Set goals, honor commitments, take up practices that challenge you in time (e.g., shadow work, feedback loops, relational accountability).
Return to the Body: Engage in grounding, time-based somatic practices — like strength training, yoga with intentional progress, or even martial arts — to restore connection to process and embodiment.
The goal is not to abandon one pole for the other, but to oscillate between them consciously, gradually spending more time in their mutual illumination.
Tips for Integrating
Integration is not about balance — it’s about transcending and including both poles into a new, emergent realization. Time (nunc fluens) and Timelessness (nunc stans) are not separate — they are two perspectives on the same present moment. Integration reveals that the Now is both flowing and still; both unfolding and whole.
Practice 1: Two Truths Contemplation
Draw from the Buddhist two truths doctrine: the relative truth of becoming, and the ultimate truth of being. Reflect on how every event in time is also an expression of timeless awareness. Practice asking throughout the day:
“What is happening in time — and what is holding it, silently, beyond time?”
This builds cognitive integration — a both/and awareness that softens the false divide.
Practice 2: Witness and Participate
Alternate between witness meditation (timelessness) and engaged embodiment (time). For example, begin your day with 20 minutes of formless awareness practice (Dzogchen, open awareness, or centering prayer), then move into relational, embodied practices like conscious communication, creative work, or shadow inquiry. Over time, you’ll notice these no longer feel separate.
This builds state-stage integration — the ability to sustain nondual awareness within form.
Practice 3: Integral Life Practice Design
Use the Integral Life Practice framework to systematically include timeless awareness and temporal growth:
Awareness (Timelessness): Include daily meditation or contemplative prayer to stabilize presence.
Shadow (Time): Actively engage your unconscious patterns and projections as part of your evolutionary unfolding.
Body (Time): Work with discipline and structure; build in progressive training to engage linear development.
Spirit (Timelessness): Cultivate direct realization, but not as a bypass — as the very ground of all activity.
When Time and Timelessness are integrated, we become transparent to the Absolute while remaining committed to the unfolding of the relative. We no longer seek to escape the world, nor to be consumed by it. Ultimately, integration means living from the Ever-Present Origin: acting from timelessness, healing in time, and seeing the Divine play out in every moment of Becoming.
Key Questions
Here are some questions you can contemplate while listening to this discussion. We suggest you take some time to use these as journaling prompts.
Do I experience time as linear, cyclical, relative — or something else?
How do I plan, reflect, or worry? What kind of time do I live inside?
Where do I notice patterns repeating in my life or society? Am I caught in a flat loop… or can I sense the spiral? What might I be revisiting from a higher place or perspective?
What is my relationship to timelessness? Have I ever touched an experience of timeless awareness? How did it affect how I see the world today?
Am I overwhelmed by the pace of change — or able to metabolize it? What helps me stay centered when reality speeds up?
Can I see multiple developmental levels operating around me? Do I judge earlier stages — or recognize their necessity and limitations?
How do I navigate living in a world where many people are not seeing what I see? Do I collapse into cynicism, superiority, or loneliness… or stay in contact with compassion?
How far into the future am I thinking — really? Am I living just for my own needs, or am I willing to serve a vision I may never live to see?
Dr. Keith, Jeremy, and Corey discuss how our relationship with time lies at the very root of consciousness, and explore how our perceptions of time affect our overall psychological health and sense of well-being.
Drawing on Tibetan Buddhism and other great wisdom traditions, as well as on neuroscience and holistic traditions, rewnowned teacher and national bestselling author Lama Surya Das shares real-world examples, practical exercises, and essential techniques.
About Integral Edge
Welcome to a world on the edge.
AI is rewriting the rules. Politics are more polarized than ever, with the far right and left in an endless clash. The metacrisis looms, late-stage capitalism is unraveling, DEI is evolving, and strongmen are rising once more.
But that’s just the beginning.
This podcast takes an integral look at the forces shaping our reality—from cutting-edge neuroscience and biohacking to cryptocurrency, global economics, and the ancient wisdom of awakening, mindfulness, and embodiment.
Keith Martin-Smith brings a deep, multi-perspective lens to the chaos, cutting through the noise to find what actually matters.
This isn’t just another commentary on the world. It’s a guide to seeing—and living—beyond the divide.
New episodes of Integral Edge every second and fourth Wednesday of the month at 10 AM PT. See our events calendar to join the live discussion!
Keith Martin-Smith is an award-winning author, writing coach, and Zen priest. He is passionate about human connection, creativity, and evolution. His books include "The Mysterious Divination of Tea Leaves", "A Heart Blown Open", and "The Heart of Zen". His most recent book is his first novel, "Only Everything", a novel that explores the promise and the pain of following an artist's path.
Terri O’Fallon, PhD is an Integral scholar whose research spans 40 years, including eleven research studies conducted in various colleges, public schools, and private research venues. Her most recent theory, and the culmination of a lifetime of work, is the STAGES model of human development. STAGES integrates several developmental models and is informed by Ken Wilber’s Integral Theory and Terri’s own research, to form a robust and predictive map that is being used by numerous scholars, practitioners, and leaders throughout the world.