“You think you’re separate – you think you exist. But you’re not who you think you are. You are consciousness in drag.”Jack Kornfield

The first of Deep Transformation’s What is Real Greatness Series, this conversation with world-renowned meditation teacher Jack Kornfield is filled with beautiful teachings touching into the sacred at the heart of our lives and the point of our whole spiritual journey: to remember and embody our innate capacity to awaken and experience the reality of our own innate dignity and nobility. Respecting ourselves at the deepest level is what transforms us and transforms society too, Jack explains. “Do you hold yourself with nobility and respect?” he asks. “Can you remember your own beauty and dignity? Can you see it in others?”

The topic of greatness—real greatness—is woven throughout the dialogue, as Jack recounts the seed events of his own spiritual journey and ruminates on Roger’s question, what is the sacred question at the center of your life? This is a question Jack often asks his own students, and we are inspired to ponder it for ourselves, along with, if you were to write your own bodhisattva vow, what would it be? Jack is a master at inspiring us to live our ideals, to broaden the possibilities of our lives, and to remember the miracle of our existence. A warmly personal, deeply profound discussion.

In Part 2 of Deep Transformation’s first episode in the What is Real Greatness Series, longtime spiritual teacher Jack Kornfield declares that in his experience real greatness is a greatness of heart. In Buddhism, greatness of heart is embodied in the ideal of the bodhisattva—one whose life is dedicated to the well-being of all. Embodying compassion is not a grim proposition, Jack explains, but a joy! The whole point of it being human happiness and inner freedom. Because of his deep understanding of compassion, Jack was invited to the Oslo Freedom Forum to counsel global activists on how to prevent burnout, and when talking to them about their outrage, he told them, “You do this because you care—that is not a loss of power, it’s actually the deep power. Tune into the care.” Greatness of heart is the great power.

Jack relates that the experience of awakening can be felt in different ways: it might feel like everything is love, perfection, emptiness, or freedom. For me, the channel is love and my practice is to love everyone, he explains. We have to love both the lion and the gazelle, he continues, and shares a poignant story of how very loving Ram Dass became towards the end of his life, loving everything, even his pain. When the conversation turns towards the potential demise of humanity, Jack wonders, will we be able to do something beneficial with our consciousness now that we’re aware that we are all connected? What is the spirit you want to lead with? he asks. What is the dance you want to do? A thoroughly thought provoking, nourishing, inspiring conversation.

Recorded October 2, 2025.

Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Heidi Mitchell

Topics & Timestamps — Part 1

• Introducing the first of Deep Transformation’s What is Real Greatness? series (00:38)
• Introducing renowned meditation teacher, prolific author, and clinical psychologist Jack Kornfield (03:09)
• In discussing real greatness, Jack advises not to throw out money & power as being unworthy(04:47)
• The story of Emperor Ashoka, who shifted from seeking outer greatness to seeking inner greatness: peace of mind and heart (07:49)
• How the Buddha turned the Hindu caste system on its head, honoring young monks for their innate nobility (13:17)
• Can you remember your own beauty & dignity? Can you see it in others? (16:19)
• Each of us has a sacred question at the center of our lives, what’s been Jack’s? (17:30)
• Jack’s first draw to Buddhism: suffering and the relief from suffering (21:08)
• The seeds of our sacred journeys: the path doesn’t go from here to there but from there to here (24:15)
• It’s completely weird that we exist! (25:40)
• King Ashoka & other historical figures, good candidates for the What is Real Greatness Series(27:13)
• Do we ask ourselves, “How do I live?” (28:28)
• The beautiful thing about the bodhisattva ideal is that it becomes the setting of the compass of your heart (31:32)
• The prayer with which the Dalai Lama begins his day (36:37)
• Ideals illuminate the possibilities of how we might live (38:39)
• If you were to write your own bodhisattva vow… what would it be? (40:47)
• Sometimes it’s suffering and sometimes it’s an awakening experience that draws us to spirituality (44:28)
• Jane Goodall, interspecies bodhisattva, and the story of Joanna Macy’s wake (47:37)

Topics & Timestamps — Part 2

• You think you’re separate, but you’re not who you think you are (00:27)
• The bodhisattva vow as aspiration, never off-duty (04:23)
• What real greatness is changes with each turning of Buddhism (08:26)
• The experience of awakening can be felt in different ways: love, perfection, emptiness, or freedom (12:19)
• Jack’s channel & inspiration is love; and a story of how very loving Ram Dass became (19:00)
• Teaching activists to remember to hold themselves in their own circle of compassion at the Oslo Freedom Forum (23:52)
• Jack’s upcoming workshop: Inner Technology for Outer Technologists (29:18)
• How do you embody the bodhisattva? Spiritual practice isn’t a grim duty—it’s actually joyful (31:08)
• As Andre Gidé said, joy is our moral obligation (32:49)
• What stands out to Jack about all the amazing people he’s encountered? (34:09)
• When there’s a greatness of heart…that is the great power (35:04)
• The hospice now is for humanity, not for Earth, which knows how to take care of itself (37:42)
• What is the spirit you want to lead with? What is the dance you want to do? (40:18)
• The end questions: Did I love well? Did I live fully? Did I learn to let go? (41:13)
• Your purpose here is to deliver your cargo, your gifts (41:47)

About the Deep Transformation series

We are clearly in a new era, facing world-threatening challenges and graced with barely conceivable opportunities. In this mind-boggling new world, we all face two crucial questions:

• First, the ever-present conundrum of how to best live fully, deeply, wisely, and well.
  Second, the new question unique to our times, how to best understand and heal our endangered world.
• Wouldn’t it be wonderful to hear responses to these questions from some of the great consciousness pioneers—the outstanding thinkers, sages, scientists, and activists—of our time? These are the people and conversations that Deep Transformation offers.

Deep Transformation: Self-Society-Spirit draws on diverse ideas from around the world. It goes beyond traditional positions and polarities—beyond left and right, material and spiritual—to seek syntheses of deep wisdom and practical know-how that integrate the best of all positions.

Click here to learn more about Deep Transformation!

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About Jack Kornfield

Jack Kornfield trained as a Buddhist monk in Thailand, India, and Burma. He holds a Ph.D. in clinical psychology and is a founding teacher of the Insight Meditation Society in Massachusetts and Spirit Rock Meditation Center in California. He is one of the key teachers to introduce mindfulness practice to the West, has taught internationally since 1974, and is the author of 17 books which have sold 2 million copies.

About John Dupuy

John Dupuy is co-founder and CEO of iAwake Technologies, a company that creates cutting-edge, high-tech brainwave entrainment soundtracks that support the healing of emotional/shadow issues, deepen meditation, mental focus, creativity, and flow states, and enhance a daily integral transformative practice. John has been working personally and professionally with brainwave entrainment technology since 2004, and travels internationally to teach and inspire on the subjects of Integral Transformative Practice and Integral Recovery®. John is also the author of Integral Recovery: A Revolutionary Approach to the Treatment of Alcoholism and Addiction (SUNY Press, 2013), winner of the 2013 USA Best Book Award, and co-host of the popular Journey of Integral Recovery podcast. John also hosts the online series Spiritual Tech Talks 2.0, in which he converses with leaders, pioneers, and inventors on the current wave of emerging spiritual technologies.

About Roger Walsh

Roger Walsh, M.D., Ph.D., has spent nearly a quarter century researching and practicing in the world's great spiritual traditions. His critically acclaimed book, Essential Spirituality, is a summary of that wisdom, outlining the seven spiritual practices common to the world's major religions.

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