Doug Rushkoff interviews Astra Taylor and Thomas Gokey, co-founders of Strike Debt, Rolling Jubilee and most recently the Debt Collective. The Debt Collective is a direct action campaign that leverages the collective power of debtors, united together, against exploitative for-profit education and lending institutions in the US. Astra and Thomas give Team Human listeners a template for hacking real world systems and tapping into the power of solidarity.