Perspective Shift:
- Projection isn’t just psychological — it’s political, and it’s everywhere. We often think of projection as a therapeutic concept, but this conversation reveals how projection is shaping the political landscape itself. From demonizing opponents to idealizing heroes, both sides of the aisle are often acting out their shadow without realizing it — and it’s making real progress harder for everyone.
- If Trump “makes you crazy,” you’ve already lost the inner war. You may be right to oppose him — but if your nervous system is hijacked, you’ve given him control over your state, your clarity, and your power. This doesn’t mean being passive; it means grounding your activism in discernment, not disturbance. The clearer you are, the more effective you become.
- Trump is a projection magnet — for both our demons and our heroes. Whether you love him or hate him, Trump reflects back parts of ourselves we haven’t fully integrated. For some, he embodies the “strongman” protector we feel we’ve lost; for others, the tyrant we fear lives in us. Until we reclaim those parts, we’ll keep casting them onto others — and calling it “truth.”
- Shadow work isn’t about losing your edge — it’s about sharpening it. Many people fear that owning their shadow will blunt their political passion or weaken their convictions. But in truth, integrating shadow lets you respond from wisdom, not reactivity. It transforms righteous outrage into right action.
- The most effective resistance doesn’t come from hate — it comes from wholeness. Historical changemakers like MLK, Mandela, and Gandhi didn’t fuel their movements with shadow. They reclaimed their power, held their opponents with compassion, and became unshakable. That’s what makes transformation possible.
- If you’re triggered by people who are triggered, you’re still projecting. Even those who feel above the fray — mocking the “woke” or the “MAGA crowd” from a distance — are often caught in subtle forms of shadow. This work challenges us to notice the superiority we project, not just the rage or fear.
In this powerful and often provocative dialogue, psychotherapist and developmental theorist Kim Barta joins Keith Martin-Smith for a deep dive into the psychological and developmental dynamics surrounding one of the most polarizing figures of our time: Donald Trump.
Drawing from decades of clinical experience and the STAGES developmental model, Kim outlines a rigorous three-part typology of shadow—projection, introjects, and split ego states—and shows how each of these can be activated in our political and cultural reactions. Whether you’re vehemently opposed to Trump or a staunch supporter, this conversation invites you to pause, look inward, and ask: What part of this is my perception—and what part is my projection?
Because whether you love him or hate him, Trump functions as a kind of shadow magnet—someone onto whom we unconsciously project either our darkest disowned traits or our most idealized hopes. His presence on the political stage acts like a psychological Rorschach test, provoking intense reactions that can often reveal more about our internal landscape than they do about the man himself.
For those critical of Trump, Kim offers a challenging but compassionate perspective: if Trump “makes you crazy,” then you’ve already given away your power. Shadow work, he suggests, doesn’t mean condoning harmful behavior—it means reclaiming the capacity to act from clarity rather than compulsion, from discernment rather than disturbance. And this matters—because if Trump truly is the existential threat many perceive him to be, then our resistance must come from grounded, skillful action rather than reactive turmoil. Otherwise, we risk undermining our own integrity, credibility, and capacity to influence meaningful change.
For those who support Trump, Kim extends the same invitation to self-inquiry. Many on the right experience a profound sense of betrayal, cultural marginalization, or disempowerment — and that pain often fuels projection just as powerfully as it does on the left. The goal here isn’t to invalidate anyone’s concerns, but to help distinguish between authentic values and reactive identity defense. Because if you truly believe in the principles Trump represents to you — whether it’s populism, sovereignty, or freedom — then embodying those principles with clarity and compassion will always be more persuasive than lashing out from a place of grievance or fear.
Which is why this is not a conversation about being “right” — it’s a conversation about being whole.
Integral Invitation: Watch the Watcher
As you engage with this dialogue, we invite you to watch yourself watching, and to discern whatever emotional reactions you may be having while you watch:
- What parts of the conversation provoke a strong emotional reaction?
- Do you feel affirmed, invalidated, irritated, or inspired?
- Are you projecting something onto Kim or Keith — or onto Trump himself?
Kim offers a simple yet profound measure:
“The degree that you’re disturbed by it is the degree of the projection.”
If you’re ready to explore your inner landscape more deeply, try this process:
- Name the Reaction: What emotion are you feeling?
- Locate the Voice: Is there a part of you saying, “That’s stupid,” “They don’t get it,” or “Finally, someone said it”?
- Ask the Question: Where in me does that part live? What is it protecting?
- Reclaim the Energy: What value or power is hidden in that reaction?
In a time when polarization is the norm and nuance is rare, this conversation offers an integral third way—a path not of neutrality, but of radical ownership, compassionate discernment, and skillful action.
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About Integral Edge
Welcome to a world on the edge.
AI is rewriting the rules. Politics are more polarized than ever, with the far right and left in an endless clash. The metacrisis looms, late-stage capitalism is unraveling, DEI is evolving, and strongmen are rising once more.
But that’s just the beginning.
This podcast takes an integral look at the forces shaping our reality—from cutting-edge neuroscience and biohacking to cryptocurrency, global economics, and the ancient wisdom of awakening, mindfulness, and embodiment.
Keith Martin-Smith brings a deep, multi-perspective lens to the chaos, cutting through the noise to find what actually matters.
This isn’t just another commentary on the world. It’s a guide to seeing—and living—beyond the divide.
New episodes of Integral Edge every second and fourth Wednesday of the month at 10 AM PT. See our events calendar to join the live discussion!
Key Questions
Here are some questions you can contemplate while listening to this discussion. We suggest you take some time to use these as journaling prompts.
- What do I feel when I see or hear about Trump? Is it anger, fear, admiration, disgust, pride, or something else? How intense is the feeling—and what might that intensity be pointing to within me?
- Am I reacting from perception or projection? Can I distinguish what I’m clearly observing from what I might be projecting? How does my level of disturbance affect my ability to make that distinction?
- What parts of myself do I see in political figures I strongly oppose or support? Am I disowning qualities like arrogance, manipulation, or dominance—or idealizing traits like strength, boldness, or defiance?
- Do I believe I need to be upset in order to care? Is my emotional turmoil actually helping me act more effectively in the world—or is it draining my energy and narrowing my vision?
- How do I respond to people who see the world differently than I do? Do I get curious, contemptuous, defensive, or dismissive? What does that response say about my developmental center of gravity?
- Where in my life am I giving away my power? Are there external figures—political, cultural, or personal—that I’ve allowed to dictate my emotional state or sense of agency?
- Do I speak from my values or from my wounds? When I engage in dialogue or activism, am I grounded in clarity and care—or am I seeking righteousness, validation, or revenge?
- Can I feel compassion without losing discernment? How do I hold both the pain I see in others and the need to uphold boundaries, truth, or justice? Can I integrate fierce clarity with an open heart?
About Kim Barta
Kim Barta is an internationally recognized psychotherapist, award winning lecturer, writer and workshop creator. Kim possesses a golden combination of deep compassion, skillful application, decades of deep embedded experience, clarity of presence, and international recognition with rave reviews.
About Keith Martin-Smith
Keith Martin-Smith is an award-winning author, writing coach, and Zen priest. He is passionate about human connection, creativity, and evolution. His books include "The Mysterious Divination of Tea Leaves", "A Heart Blown Open", and "The Heart of Zen". His most recent book is his first novel, "Only Everything", a novel that explores the promise and the pain of following an artist's path.