Three smart and good-hearted people (including a thoughtful Magdalena with first-hand knowledge of some of the issues, and a well-informed Mark) in a well-structured and timely conversation about the history and complexities (including its religious and humanitarian roots and aspects) of a current critical event of interest to worldcentrists, and looking for reasons (and finding a few) for an “evolutionary optimism”–what’s not to like?

In answer to the question “what can integralists do to exert influence,” I would say have more conversations that focus on global events such as this one, not just on happenings in the US. I think that would engage people in the larger world and get them thinking and conversing; people after all have to know about things before they can have any influence. I think it would help everyone to think “bigger” and climb the cognitive line, and would also reduce some of the repetitive (and often rabid) conversations about the latest phenomenon of the US culture wars. I remember integral speaking about wokeism and cancel culture and such long before mainstream media was; but now those topics are everywhere in mainstream media; an occasional uptick to international or global events such as this one is not only refreshing or in service to worldcentrism, but accentuates that first principle of Integral: inclusion. (There are people on this IL community site right now who are not from the US of A.) I have full confidence in the talent at Integral Life to be able to address more world events, and hope to see more of it. This discussion was great!

What I did as follow-up to it was to research and learn a little more. I think anyone who saw those death toll numbers from the latest conflict (about 250 Palestinians killed, 12 Israeli’s) might have wondered just a little about the power imbalances. Corey mentioned the developmental stage differences: red/amber Palestinians, amber/orange Israel. Those orange accomplishments of Israel are evident not only in the Iron Dome (partially funded by the U.S., who also was due to sell an immense amount of military weapons to Israel during the conflict, but was delayed due to Congressional members, progressive Democrats primarily), putting up a resistance), but also in GDP: at the end of 2018, Israel’s GDP was 369.69 billion; Palestine’s was 16.3 billion. Per capita income also speaks: Israel’s in 2019 was $43,592 in USD; Palestine’s was $1,036 USD in 2020.

While these numbers do not tell the whole story of course, add to them the fact that Palestine has lost the majority of its land since the end of WW II, due to war with Israel and Israeli settlements, and it’s not easy to deny there are definitely some power imbalances. Even some of the mainstream media seemed to pick up on this, and I noticed some of them also used some softer language, even referring, right or wrong, to Hamas as a “militant” organization rather than the usual “terrorist” term, for instance. (Some say that it was internet and social media that pushed the legacy media in this direction of at least hinting about power imbalances; if so, score a rare point for the internet and SM, so often the villain.)

The Israeli-Palestinian conflicts are incredibly complex, and I certainly don’t have answers, except to say I think it’s good to provide this content to Integralists, along with the many ideas for bettering the situation, and I hope you all come back in a few months or so to revisit the topic, after the new Israeli Prime Minister and a new coalition government that includes for the first time an Islamist party have had a little while to exert their influence. Thanks again.

Here is a very recent (published today) mainstream media article on the Abraham Accords, how each of the signatories are viewing it. https://www.newsweek.com/abraham-accords-nations-urge-new-israel-government-ease-off-palestinians-1601466. I don’t have answers to your questions FermentedAgave, but there are lots of articles on the subject and maybe this one will shed some light on some of the questions you posited. From what I’ve read, outside observers question how effective the Accords can be, but of the signatories, everybody’s pretty happy with the Accords for various reasons (e.g.technological and economic development opportunities). The Palestinians are not happy.

Back with ya, briefly.

My comment that the Palestinians are not happy was in reference to the Abraham Accords. According to the article I provided a link for in the prior post, the Palestinians see the signatories as “selling out Pan-Arab and Palestinian interests for financial or political gain.” They see the Accords as treating them as a “conflict-management exercise” and not addressing the root causes of the conflict(s) with Israel. Here are a couple more articles, with different perspectives (from two different countries, U.S. and UAE) and written 6 months apart (Nov. 2020 and May 2021) https://www.e-ir.info/2020/11/01/the-abraham-accords-and-the-palestinian-issue/ and https://www.usnews.com/news/world-report/articles/2021-05-13/how-the-abraham-accords-precipitated-new-israeli-palestinian-violence.

Still, to consider your question more generally, I think there might be at least slight shading differences to any Palestinian common answer (e.g freedom from occupation and annexation attempts by Israel of Palestinian territories, Israel recognition of Palestinian statehood, i.e.two-state solution) if the question of happiness were asked of, say, a leader in Hamas, or an impoverished Palestinian family, or an Arab living in Israel (most of whom are Palestinian descendants or identify as Palestinian.)

As for “Hamas’ stated goal of total destruction of Israel and genocide”–during this IL discussion, Magdalena mentioned that that specific part of the Hamas Charter has not been applicable since 2017. I did a little research on this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant, and it sort of reads that way, with statements such as they don’t see themselves as at war with the Jewish people, but with Zionism which they hold responsible for the occupation of Palestine. Don’t know how good or impartial this Wiki article is…but there’s a lot of info there.

The moral “high-ground”–what is most considerate of rights, most just, most responsible, most demonstrative of care/caring–may shift from side-to-side, depending on the point in time and what aspect of the conflict is being looked at, and who is doing the looking.

It is all very complex! and I’m still getting educated in order to see a fuller, more whole picture.

It’s also quite painful. Accounts I’ve read of people living in the area describe it as “surreal to have rockets flying overhead,” and speak of the deleterious effects on the psyche of living with such tensions (not to mention the death and destruction all around), and the weariness and fatigue. Some seem desensitized and cynical, see it all as a “joke,” that “nothing ever changes.” Perhaps new leadership will do better. We’ll see.

Oh yes, one more article you might be interested in, about Arab protests in Israel https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/05/13/arab-israeli-faq/