Marx, Mysticism, and Mathematics: Navigating Our Epistemic Collapse

Ken WilberCognitive, Editor's Picks, Integrative Metatheory, Media type, Perspectives, The Ken Show, The Ken Show (v2), Video, What is truth? 1 Comment

“What is needed, rather, is a more integrative approach that works with our present historical actualities. A planetary culture will in effect have to deal with equitable material-economic distribution in the physiosphere (the enduring concern of Marx, even if we reject his particular solutions), and it will have to deal with sustainable ecological distribution in the biosphere (the enduring contribution of the Greens). But it will have to go much further and deal specifically and non-reductionistically with the noosphere and its distributions and distortions, and it will have to do so with something other than reductionistic web-of-life theories, if it is to freely engage the motivation of an entire globe. It will have to work toward specific theories of free noospheric exchange, including but transcending ecological concerns.

Social labor could unite world citizens to the extent, but only to the extent, that we all share matter in common. The Greens can unite world citizens to the extent, but only to the extent that we all share bodies in common. But it will take a vision-logic movement of tremendous integrative power (integral-aperspectival as universal-integral) in order to unite world citizens on the centauric basis that we all share matter and bodies and minds in common (not to mention a Spirit and a Self prior to all that). The Greens have produced a promising platform, but if it isn’t any more than that (and it isn’t so far, neglecting noospheric exchange), then it will be merely snapped up by egoic-rationality structures of capital production, and we will simply have McDonald’s selling burgers in recyclable bags, which is nowhere near anything deserving to be called a Planetary Transformation.”Ken Wilber, Sex, Ecology, Spirituality

Welcome back to The Ken Show! In this episode we continue our fascinating discussion about Integral epistemology, taking a look at the important but partial truths of Marxism, how we go about verifying and confirming spiritual experiences, and the involutionary/evolutionary nature of mathematics.

This is a continuation of the previous episode of The Ken Show, where we walked through a dozen major schools of epistemology and took note of their strengths, limitations, and how they fit into a more comprehensive and Integral method of sense-making. If you haven’t watched that episode already, we highly recommend you do so!

Why is this important? In an age where legacy media is on the decline and has being largely replaced by social media, we are currently experiencing a total epistemic collapse of historic proportions — resulting in a collective state of aperspectival madness that Ken has been warning us about for decades. The world is broken, and no one can quite agree how, which makes our most pressing social and planetary problems (particularly the truly wicked ones) almost impossible to solve.

But don’t worry, this could actually be good news. Our present epistemic breakdown is one of the central life conditions of our time, and Integral metatheory is uniquely positioned to help us piece our fragmented and fallen world back together. While things will almost certainly get worse before they get better, these are precisely the sort of conditions that call integral solutions forward, and the sorts of conversations where those solutions will eventually emerge.

Part 1: How Do We Properly Integrate Marxist Epistemology?

Marxism, also known as “dialectical materialism”, continues to exert a tremendous influence in our society, both in terms of pro-Marxist ideas on the left and anti-Marxist positions on the right.

One of the simplest ways to define Marxist epistemology is the following statement: “Examine any alleged state of affairs as related to and distinguished from a total environment, and you will know whether or not the sentence alleging that state of affairs is true.”

What are the positive contributions of Marxism that we want to include in a more integral epistemology? What are the unhealthy or negative limitations that we want to avoid?

Become a supporting member to watch the full conversation

Humanity is entering the Transformation Age, a new era of human civilization, with Integral Consciousness rising at its leading edge. Our members don’t use Integral Life as just another media subscription they use weekly or discard. Instead, most stay with us for years, using Integral Life to learn Integral Philosophy and build an integral mind slowly, methodically and when they need it. We’re here to help you shape the future that’s emerging no matter where your life takes you.

Get Full Access For $1 (7 days)* Or explore all membership plans → * Trial price for the first 7 days, then $20/month. Cancel or switch plans in 2 minutes at any time.
Part 2: How Do We Know Spiritual Experiences Transcend the Flesh?

How can we claim that spiritual realities have real ontological existence “out there”, based on our own phenomenological experiences “in here”? How do we discern whether something like subtle “realms” or the Absolute itself actually exist, based on data collected from our own zone-1 state experiences, versus something like “unicorns”? How can we be sure that these spiritual states are not mere bio-chemical hallucinations caused by activating certain parts of our nervous system?

Become a member to watch
Part 3: The Two Truths: Epistemology or Ontology?

Is the Two Truths doctrine best understood as an epistemological claim, as I believe it was for Nagarjuna, or is it an ontological claim, as it is understood to be in Chinese Buddhism?
Become a member to watch

Part 4: Where Does Math Come From?

What exactly is math, anyway? Does it exist independently of the mind, or are mathematics generated by mind? Does the square root of negative 2 actually exist objectively in the “real world” out there, or is it an epistemological feature of our sense-making “in here”?

Become a member to watch
Part 5: How Do We Navigate Our Epistemic Crisis?

We currently live in a completely un-curated world of social media, where each of us individually are responsible for our own informational terrain. This is largely the result of existing on flat postmodern media platforms such as Facebook, Twitter, etc. that have themselves not only failed to sustain any sort of sane postmodern discourse, but also incentivized a massive regression back to magenta tribalism, red narcissism, and amber ethnocentrism.

It’s a total epistemic collapse. This is the aperspectival madness that Ken has been warning us about for decades, and it is what we are all immersed in today, whether we know it or not — where things like QAnon conspiracies rule the day and leftist SJW’s begin to support ideas like racial segregation.

What is an integralist to do? How can we ensure that we are responsibly maintaining our own informational terrain and keeping a careful eye on our own confirmation biases, while helping others do the same? If we notice that our friends and family are basing their views on broken epistemologies and unfalsifiable narratives (something we even see in “integral” circles!), what are some skillful ways we can help guide each other back to reality?
Become a member to watch

We hope you enjoyed this episode of The Ken Show! Let us know what you think in the comments below, and also be sure to let us know if you have any questions for future episodes!

Written and produced by Corey deVos
Music by Stuart Davis



More Integral Theory Resources

Being vs. Knowing: Ending the Debate Between Epistemology and Ontology

Ken Wilber

Ken Wilber offers a thorough examination of the classic philosophical conflicts between ontology and epistemology, while suggesting a way to seamlessly integrate the two and end this philosophical debate once and for all.



Integral Semiotics: The Language of Liberation

Ken Wilber

How do we derive meaning from the words we use? An integral approach fundamentally changes how we understand the nature of language, communication, and shared meaning. Integral Semiotics offers a comprehensive map or framework of most of the known worldspaces available to humans. Since most of these worldspaces do not possess simple location or material form, they are likely to be denied reality by most realist, empirical, or behavioral schools—where in fact they are home of the vast majority of those things most humans hold valuable. Integral Semiotics is thus a matter, not just of linguistics, but of emancipation.



The Three Principles of Integral Thinking

Ken Wilber

Ken offers an in-depth summary of the three integrative principles, nonexclusion, enfoldment, and enactment, which he uncovered while putting together his Integral Methodological Pluralism framework — a robust meta-paradigmatic scaffolding that seeks to honor, include, and integrate multiple paradigms and methodologies and practices across all domains of human knowing.



Kosmic Address: Everything In Its Right Place

Ken Wilber

Ken Wilber explores the notion of Kosmic Address — a universal “indexing system” that uses the integral framework to situate and constellate all known phenomena (physical, mental, and spiritual), as well our capacity to discern that phenomena. This allows us to not only better understand the nature of each component part, but also how that part relates to every other part and fits into the whole, revealing the hidden architecture of knowledge itself.




Previous Episodes of The Ken Show

Putting the “Art” in Artificial Intelligence

Putting the “Art” in Artificial Intelligence

What is art, at its most fundamental level? This is one of those perennial questions that we have been asking and re-asking at every stage of the human journey, from the first cave drawings all the way to the emergence of sophisticated artificial intelligence algorithms like MidJourney that are once again blurring the lines between art, beauty, and perspective and forcing us to find new ways to answer this timeless question. Watch as Ken and Corey take a fun and fascinating look at the intersection between art, semiotics, and technology.
The Momentous Leap to Integral Consciousness

The Momentous Leap to Integral Consciousness

Ken Wilber and Corey deVos explore some of the unique challenges that come with the transition to Integral stages of development — “the momentous leap” as it is often called. Watch as Ken and Corey try to bring a little bit more light to this particular path of transformation, and maybe leave a few signposts for fellow travelers along the way.
No Boundary: Ken Wilber Goes Back to High School

No Boundary: Ken Wilber Goes Back to High School

Ken speaks with high school students to discuss his 1979 classic, No Boundary. What follows is a lively and deeply insightful exploration of integral spirituality, Ken’s personal practice, and the path of awakening that leads us to nondual realization.
In Pursuit of Wholeness: Making Room for Everything

In Pursuit of Wholeness: Making Room for Everything

This notion of holons — the idea that the universe is fundamentally made of whole/parts within whole/parts within whole/parts, turtles all the way up and turtles all the way down — this isn’t just important in a theoretical or philosophical sense. Understanding holons also helps us make better sense of the world that we live in, and our inner worlds as well. And it helps guide our own growing up, waking up, and cleaning up process.
Integral Critical Theory: The 8 Zones of Racism

Integral Critical Theory: The 8 Zones of Racism

Ken and Corey continue their discussion of the 8 critical zones of integral metatheory, and apply them to the ongoing cultural conversation taking place around race, racism, and other kinds of bigotry that we continue to see in the world. This discussion is a great opportunity to not only learn more about these 8 primordial perspectives that are available to us, but also to see how they can be applied to social and cultural challenges and “wicked problems” such as these.
From the Big Bang to the Eight Primordial Perspectives

From the Big Bang to the Eight Primordial Perspectives

Ken Wilber offers a stunning introduction to the major components of Integral theory and practice — a guided tour that takes us from the very first forms to emerge in the universe, all the way to the eight primordial perspectives that all of our knowledge is constructed from.
Integrating Power

Integrating Power

Ken and Corey take an in-depth look at the multiple kinds of power we find in all four quadrants — interior and exterior power, individual and collective power — as they are expressed up and down the spiral of development.
The Science of Subtle Energy

The Science of Subtle Energy

In this episode of The Ken Show we take a look at Ken's "Comprehensive Theory of Subtle Energy”, which offers an elegant summary of how these energies might be accounted for by integral metatheory and integrated with our scientific understanding of the universe.
Ken Wilber Goes to High School: Sex, Ecology, Spirituality

Ken Wilber Goes to High School: Sex, Ecology, Spirituality

In this very special episode of The Ken Show we are joined by Aissatou Diallo, Zoe Tray, and Noah Delorme, students at Choate Rosemary Hall who have been studying Ken Wilber’s seminal book, Sex, Ecology, Spirituality for their senior year project. Watch as Ken, Aissatou, Zoe, and Noah unpack many of the core insights of SES and discuss the unique value Integral work holds for a new generation of thinkers, leaders, artists, and scholars.
Practice the Wound of Love

Practice the Wound of Love

Watch as Ken and Corey explore the ongoing unfoldment of love along the paths of Waking Up, Growing Up, Opening Up, Cleaning Up, and Showing Up. What follows is one of the most powerful, transformative, and touching conversations that Ken Wilber has ever recorded.
Marx, Mysticism, and Mathematics: Navigating Our Epistemic Collapse

Marx, Mysticism, and Mathematics: Navigating Our Epistemic Collapse

In this episode we continue our fascinating discussion about Integral epistemology, taking a look at the important but partial truths of Marxism, how we go about verifying and confirming spiritual experiences, and the involutionary/evolutionary nature of mathematics.
Integral Epistemology

Integral Epistemology

How do we know stuff? Like all of the great philosophical quandaries, it’s a fundamentally straightforward question that can lead us into an endlessly branching series of chicken-and-egg meditations on the nature of existence (ontology) versus the nature of knowledge (epistemology). In this fascinating episode of The Ken Show, we take a look at a dozen of the most popular schools of epistemological thought — idealism, pragmatism, empiricism, constructivism, etc. — noting their respective contributions and limitations, and how they can all be pulled together into a more Integral epistemology.
Awaken the Eye of Spirit

Awaken the Eye of Spirit

All of us possess three primary modes of perception that we use to disclose reality – the "Eye of Flesh", the "Eye of Mind", and the "Eye of Spirit". Watch as Ken and Corey explore these ideas and the many ways we perceive and interpret spiritual realities.
Integrating Shadow

Integrating Shadow

Ken and Corey offer a stunning overview of the psychological shadow. Ken describes several different kinds of shadow, how shadow can show up differently in all four quadrants, and the relationship between shadow, violence, and social transformation.
Coronavirus and a Course in Anti-Fragility

Coronavirus and a Course in Anti-Fragility

Ken and Corey respond to the COVID-19 pandemic by suggesting a far more comprehensive approach to health and healing. Watch as we take a tour through all four quadrants of healthy living — a much-needed guide to integral anti-fragility in the 21st century.
The Four Quadrants: A Guided Tour

The Four Quadrants: A Guided Tour

Ken and Corey take a in-depth tour through one of Ken’s most well-known contributions to integral philosophy: the Four Quadrants. Watch as Ken shares his personal story about the origins of the Four Quadrant model — the day everything came together — as he weaves 3rd-person theoretical descriptions of the model with his own 1st-person experience and creative process.
Big Time: Integral Historiography and You

Big Time: Integral Historiography and You

Ken unpacks his own approach to integral historiography, helping us to better understand our own place in history — and history's place in us.
Integral Social Justice

Integral Social Justice

In this stunning 3 hour discussion, Ken Wilber offers his own views around healthy and unhealthy forms of social justice, praising the healthy and legitimate efforts to enact social justice over the generations while noting how much of today’s broken discourse around social justice is helping to perpetuate multiple forms of injustice.
Wicked Problems: Gun Violence

Wicked Problems: Gun Violence

In this exclusive series, Ken and Corey take an in-depth look at America’s ongoing struggle with gun violence, using the four quadrants to track many of the most critical and commonly-blamed factors, conditions, and causes that seem to be contributing to this terribly wicked problem.
Kosmos: An Integral Voyage

Kosmos: An Integral Voyage

Ken Wilber and Corey deVos ponder the evolutionary mysteries of the universe, speculating on how abundant life might be in the kosmos, why we haven’t met any of our galactic neighbors yet, and what might happen if a UFO landed on the White House lawn. It’s a fun conversation — and one that takes its subject matter more seriously than you might expect. Whether you are a true believer of UFO phenomena or an iron-clad skeptic, you don’t want to miss this fascinating and far-reaching exploration.
Ken Wilber

About Ken Wilber

Ken Wilber is a preeminent scholar of the Integral stage of human development. He is an internationally acknowledged leader, founder of Integral Institute, and co-founder of Integral Life. Ken is the originator of arguably the first truly comprehensive or integrative world philosophy, aptly named “Integral Theory”.

Corey deVos

About Corey deVos

Corey W. deVos is editor and producer of Integral Life. He has worked for Integral Institute/Integal Life since Spring of 2003, and has been a student of integral theory and practice since 1996. Corey is also a professional woodworker, and many of his artworks can be found in his VisionLogix art gallery.